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Obviously he doesn't have a 3 point shot yet, but if he takes 2 more mid-range shots a game on the same % that's pretty much a mirror of what Kawhi did here in his prime.

Obviously with less attention on him, but more attention makes it easier to make plays.

Scottie appears to be much better suited for the role we tried to force Pascal into following Kawhi's departure.

I don't think he's like Leonard but he's got the potential to be that level of player. I see more Lamar Odom in his game.

You’re being over zealous with the data here.

Kawhi was the strongest player in most of his matchups, that will be the key for Barnes because he doesnt have that same centered balance and core balance as Kawhi

comparing 20 yo - 29 yo

if he develops a consistent mid ranger, and is able to get to where he wants we will have a kawhi lite player.

Klayforspicy wrote:Kawhi was the strongest player in most of his matchups, that will be the key for Barnes because he doesnt have that same centered balance and core balance as Kawhi

comparing 20 yo - 29 yo

Wtf you talking about, Scottie Barnes is probably one of the strongest guys in the league and he's a rookie.

Klayforspicy wrote:Kawhi was the strongest player in most of his matchups, that will be the key for Barnes because he doesnt have that same centered balance and core balance as Kawhi

comparing 20 yo - 29 yo

Scottie Barnes incredibly strong for his age ... If he gets a hand on it he just rips the ball away from players.

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Scottie appears to be much better suited for the role we tried to force Pascal into following Kawhi's departure.

I agree...

But also people are forgetting how efficient Pascal was not having to be the focal point either... Pascal was an elite finisher and had an improving catch and shoot 3 point shot... when Pascal had less pressure on him and less focus of the defense the guy was super efficient... Barnes is kind of in that same situation now... he doesn't necessarily have the fill focus of the defense so he's able to yetvhis baskets in the flow of the offense... who knows what he'll be when he ends up being the defenses primary gameplan

That being said he already has better natural playmakimt and vision so he has that going for him...

Defenders do bounce of Barnes the way they did like Kawhi. Once Barnes develops his game, this comparison will come to fruition.

Boogie! wrote:

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Scottie appears to be much better suited for the role we tried to force Pascal into following Kawhi's departure.

I agree...

But also people are forgetting how efficient Pascal was not having to be the focal point either... Pascal was an elite finisher and had an improving catch and shoot 3 point shot... when Pascal had less pressure on him and less focus of the defense the guy was super efficient... Barnes is kind of in that same situation now... he doesn't necessarily have the fill focus of the defense so he's able to yetvhis baskets in the flow of the offense... who knows what he'll be when he ends up being the defenses primary gameplan

That being said he already has better natural playmakimt and vision so he has that going for him...

Pascal was also like the 3rd option behind Kawhi and Lowry.

I would be happy if we could get to a point where Barnes is the 1st guy, OG/Siakam/FVV are kind of the 2nd/3rd/4th guys (kind of like Lowry, Siakam, and Ibaka were the secondary scoring options).

We need to find the "Super" role players like Gasol and Green, and likely one of Siakam/OG have to play a looooot more with the bench.

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Scottie appears to be much better suited for the role we tried to force Pascal into following Kawhi's departure.

some games he just has easiest 20 pts

YogurtProducer wrote:

Boogie! wrote:

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Scottie appears to be much better suited for the role we tried to force Pascal into following Kawhi's departure.

I agree...

But also people are forgetting how efficient Pascal was not having to be the focal point either... Pascal was an elite finisher and had an improving catch and shoot 3 point shot... when Pascal had less pressure on him and less focus of the defense the guy was super efficient... Barnes is kind of in that same situation now... he doesn't necessarily have the fill focus of the defense so he's able to yetvhis baskets in the flow of the offense... who knows what he'll be when he ends up being the defenses primary gameplan

That being said he already has better natural playmakimt and vision so he has that going for him...

Pascal was also like the 3rd option behind Kawhi and Lowry.

I would be happy if we could get to a point where Barnes is the 1st guy, OG/Siakam/FVV are kind of the 2nd/3rd/4th guys (kind of like Lowry, Siakam, and Ibaka were the secondary scoring options).

We need to find the "Super" role players like Gasol and Green, and likely one of Siakam/OG have to play a looooot more with the bench.

Siakam was second option to kawhi. Lowry really deferred to both of them. But that was lowrys strength was being able to make others better.

But I agree there needs to be a hierarchy… and we do have super role players… the problem is they all think they’re the new kawhi… Barnes can be kawhi… siakam can be siakam… fvv can be 4th option behind og… fvv a primary role should be catch and shoot and making sure everyone else eats first… instead he’s here chasing awards

YogurtProducer wrote:

Boogie! wrote:

bboyskinnylegs wrote:Scottie appears to be much better suited for the role we tried to force Pascal into following Kawhi's departure.

I agree...

But also people are forgetting how efficient Pascal was not having to be the focal point either... Pascal was an elite finisher and had an improving catch and shoot 3 point shot... when Pascal had less pressure on him and less focus of the defense the guy was super efficient... Barnes is kind of in that same situation now... he doesn't necessarily have the fill focus of the defense so he's able to yetvhis baskets in the flow of the offense... who knows what he'll be when he ends up being the defenses primary gameplan

That being said he already has better natural playmakimt and vision so he has that going for him...

Pascal was also like the 3rd option behind Kawhi and Lowry.

I would be happy if we could get to a point where Barnes is the 1st guy, OG/Siakam/FVV are kind of the 2nd/3rd/4th guys (kind of like Lowry, Siakam, and Ibaka were the secondary scoring options).

We need to find the "Super" role players like Gasol and Green, and likely one of Siakam/OG have to play a looooot more with the bench.

Siakam was second option to kawhi. Lowry really deferred to both of them. But that was lowrys strength was being able to make others better.

But I agree there needs to be a hierarchy… and we do have super role players… the problem is they all think they’re the new kawhi… Barnes can be kawhi… siakam can be siakam… fvv can be 4th option behind og… fvv a primary role should be catch and shoot and making sure everyone else eats first… instead he’s here chasing awards

He looks like a young Kawhi with better passing. The slow methodical approach with the mid-range game is eerily similar. Once he adds a 3-point shot, it'll be over for the other teams in the NBA.

Boogie! wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

Boogie! wrote:
I agree...

But also people are forgetting how efficient Pascal was not having to be the focal point either... Pascal was an elite finisher and had an improving catch and shoot 3 point shot... when Pascal had less pressure on him and less focus of the defense the guy was super efficient... Barnes is kind of in that same situation now... he doesn't necessarily have the fill focus of the defense so he's able to yetvhis baskets in the flow of the offense... who knows what he'll be when he ends up being the defenses primary gameplan

That being said he already has better natural playmakimt and vision so he has that going for him...

Pascal was also like the 3rd option behind Kawhi and Lowry.

I would be happy if we could get to a point where Barnes is the 1st guy, OG/Siakam/FVV are kind of the 2nd/3rd/4th guys (kind of like Lowry, Siakam, and Ibaka were the secondary scoring options).

We need to find the "Super" role players like Gasol and Green, and likely one of Siakam/OG have to play a looooot more with the bench.

Siakam was second option to kawhi. Lowry really deferred to both of them. But that was lowrys strength was being able to make others better.

But I agree there needs to be a hierarchy… and we do have super role players… the problem is they all think they’re the new kawhi… Barnes can be kawhi… siakam can be siakam… fvv can be 4th option behind og… fvv a primary role should be catch and shoot and making sure everyone else eats first… instead he’s here chasing awards

Siakam really was not. He was almost never asked to create at any given time.

2018-19 Raptors Shot Attempts (per game , then per 36)
Kawhi - 18.8 / 19.9
Serge - 11.9 / 15.7
Siakam - 11.8 / 13.4
Lowry - 11.4 / 12.0

BUT then you also consider usage rate
Kawhi - 30.3
Serge - 22.9
Siakam - 20.8
Lowry - 19.6

And then assists per game
Lowry - 8.7
FVV - 4.8
Gasol - 3.9
Kawhi - 3.3
Siakam - 3.1

So it is quite clear Siakam was NOT the 2nd option. We had two different and distinct offenses - the Kawhi ISO get **** down show, and the team offense Lowry/Gasol set up everyone else and Siakam play off those guys. Siakam was never a 2nd option in the traditional sense like you see from PG13/Kawhi in LAC, AD/LBJ in LAL, Durant/Harden in BKN, etc. It was more Kawhi + offence by committee.

YogurtProducer wrote:

Boogie! wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:Pascal was also like the 3rd option behind Kawhi and Lowry.

I would be happy if we could get to a point where Barnes is the 1st guy, OG/Siakam/FVV are kind of the 2nd/3rd/4th guys (kind of like Lowry, Siakam, and Ibaka were the secondary scoring options).

We need to find the "Super" role players like Gasol and Green, and likely one of Siakam/OG have to play a looooot more with the bench.

Siakam was second option to kawhi. Lowry really deferred to both of them. But that was lowrys strength was being able to make others better.

But I agree there needs to be a hierarchy… and we do have super role players… the problem is they all think they’re the new kawhi… Barnes can be kawhi… siakam can be siakam… fvv can be 4th option behind og… fvv a primary role should be catch and shoot and making sure everyone else eats first… instead he’s here chasing awards

Siakam really was not. He was almost never asked to create at any given time.

2018-19 Raptors Shot Attempts (per game , then per 36)
Kawhi - 18.8 / 19.9
Serge - 11.9 / 15.7
Siakam - 11.8 / 13.4
Lowry - 11.4 / 12.0

BUT then you also consider usage rate
Kawhi - 30.3
Serge - 22.9
Siakam - 20.8
Lowry - 19.6

And then assists per game
Lowry - 8.7
FVV - 4.8
Gasol - 3.9
Kawhi - 3.3
Siakam - 3.1

So it is quite clear Siakam was NOT the 2nd option. We had two different and distinct offenses - the Kawhi ISO get **** down show, and the team offense Lowry/Gasol set up everyone else and Siakam play off those guys. Siakam was never a 2nd option in the traditional sense like you see from PG13/Kawhi in LAC, AD/LBJ in LAL, Durant/Harden in BKN, etc. It was more Kawhi + offence by committee.

Not sure what we’re debating at this point tbh… it’s not about semantics… and you’re right siakam was playing off of people but that’s the point I was making in that he wasn’t asked to carry the team on his own and played within the flow of the offense much like Scottie Barnes… Barnes is averaging 13.5 fga, and scoring 17, pascal averaging 16.9 on 11.8…

Again regardless of how you want to define second option, he was the teams second leading scorer and did it at a very efficient rate… therefore again I trust pascal to be an efficient player if given less of an offensive load… but again this goes back to role definition and played hierarchy… again as I already said lowrycwent from being 1a to being mainly a facilitator and finding his most efficient scorers… gasol was a defender and facilitator… ibaka pick and pop player… everyone got the ball and did exactly what they were supposed to do with it…

Now compare that to our current team… og is currently averaging 18.1 fga… fvv 16… Barnes 13.5… Trent 13.9… and then now we need to add siakam into the mix… we have too many players trying to get their own shots… there’s no deferring no role definition… our most inefficient scorers are taking the most shots and have the most usage…

At some point someone needs to take a step back… everyone can’t be **** kawhi… Lowry was Lowry but even he knew his job wasn’t to score any more vut to make sure he’s making everyone’s job easier…

Instead now you have fvv trying to make all star teams… the sooner these guys are told to take a step back the better… not al of them need to be jacking up shots… at some point people need to be told to do less…

Too many cooks in the kitchen… everyone thinks it’s their time to shine… someone on the team has to realize okay I’m gonna get others involved we’re gonna play as a team… that should be fvv… but he’s too busy chasing his numbers… like I said everyone on this team I has a chip on their shoulder trying to play for themselves and it shows…

This Is the sign of a young rebuilding team… if this team was serious about winning certain players would give up their egos for the better of the team. You can’t have it both ways. You’re either trying to win which involves sacrifice and understanding Roles or you’re rebuilding… but you can’t expect everyone to just be chasing numbers while also trying to win… and it also doesn’t help that everyone is so inefficient doing it.

There is something fundamentally different on the way Lowry and fvv play… and you can see it on full display here… this was pg Lowry at his best… you can see he was actively looking to make everyone else better… at this point he was trying to win games and win championships… he was making deliberate moves with the intention of setting giys up for easy baskets…

Look at that one play where he has a 2 on 1 with siakam and passes it to him while taking his man out for the easy siakam dunk… when have you EVER seen fvv make a play like that… Kyle was just so smart and savvy and was all about winning… half of those plays you see in that video fvv would try to take it to the basket himself or hold the dribble far too long so that the opening no longer existed anymore or waited so that he could take a pull up j instead… fvv is very much playing for his numbers because he knows he doesn’t, no matter how much we’re winning if Barnes and og and siakam are the ones putting up better numbers he’s not making the all star team…

And that’s exactly the problem with this team right now… too much selfishness not enough self awareness and role definition…