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Is Fred a true point guard?

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Is Fred a true Point guard?

Yes, he’s a legit true point guard
33
30%
No, he doesn’t know how to run an offense
78
70%
 
Total votes: 111

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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#101 » by macNcheese3 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:22 am

FVV is a combo guard. He has never been a pure PG. That said, I like him and we literally found a diamond on the rough.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#102 » by Gold Dragon » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:07 am

For Barnes stans, I would also say that Fred is an ideal PG to have if we want Scottie to eventually become more of a primary ball handler/playmaker because of how good he is off ball and his willingness to defer to a better playmaker.

What most of you think of as “selfishness” and “hierarchy”, “ego” and “ball hogging” is Fred doing what is necessary to lead this team that is young learning and developing without better primary ball handlers.

Regarding shots, Fred should be taking some of the most shots on the team because he is our best shooter. Gary is a close 2nd but everyone else is quite far behind. What Fred shouldn’t be doing is all the creating as well. But unfortunately our other options are currently worse than Fred. Give them time.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#103 » by Tha Cynic » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:50 am

Fairview4Life wrote:Better question is if anyone should care? Do you need a "true point guard"?


No, but this team does need someone who makes the right plays. Maybe the issue is less whether Fred Van Vleet is a true PG and more about if he's the right person to lead this team. This team needs better leadership on the court, and someone who is more natural at reading and controlling the game handling the ball more. It also needs less usage from players who do not help make the game easier for others on the team.

OG is more of an isolation scorer, GTJ is completely tunnel-visioned, FVV seems to have already decided who will receive the ball on the next play (but is reluctant to get rid of the ball), and Siakam is playing more like an offensive assassin. You put all that together and you get a team that looks out of sync.

Nurse needs to put in better structure and FVV has to be willing to let others control the game (something he has shown an aversion to unless it's based on his predetermined hierarchy).
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#104 » by kalel123 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:02 pm

He has a role on a winner but not as primary playmaker especially down the stretch. But he's willing and able to take that shot and he can defend so if possible, you still want someone like him around. Only problem IMO is his size limits the kind of players that can play beside him and still be a playmaker. I know we won with Lowry and Van Vleet playing together but ideally, you want to be able to get someone with size.

Barnes could grow into that role and he's obviously got the size, which is why he's so intriguing. But he needs couple more years to establish himself, grow more confidence, earn the trust of coaching staff and teammates. But we do definitely need someone else to trust with the ball and no one on the team is that guy and only Barnes has a chance to be one on the current roster IMO. If not, need to go get one.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#105 » by Ref_from_hell » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:54 pm

kalel123 wrote:He has a role on a winner but not as primary playmaker especially down the stretch. But he's willing and able to take that shot and he can defend so if possible, you still want someone like him around. Only problem IMO is his size limits the kind of players that can play beside him and still be a playmaker. I know we won with Lowry and Van Vleet playing together but ideally, you want to be able to get someone with size.

Barnes could grow into that role and he's obviously got the size, which is why he's so intriguing. But he needs couple more years to establish himself, grow more confidence, earn the trust of coaching staff and teammates. But we do definitely need someone else to trust with the ball and no one on the team is that guy and only Barnes has a chance to be one on the current roster IMO. If not, need to go get one.



The same old Fred haters like the one who made this thread would much rather we give him up for peanuts and let Scottie Barnes handle the team as point guard moving forward. I'm sure it'll be great for his development right? Throwing him to the wolves like that. I mean hey, best-case scenario for them he plays 48 minutes a night and puts up a ton of stats that help him win the rookie of the year award. Then he will get more media recognition. Then they can go to bed sleeping happy that his NBA 2K22 rating went up.

Thankfully, we don't live in delusional fantasyland. I will trust management and a former coach of the year in that they know what's best for his development.
DelAbbot wrote:I fcked cheered when Gobert took out GTJ on that screen.

Fck that ballhog

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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#106 » by ItsDanger » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:09 pm

If you had 2 quality ISO scorers, you don't need a true PG. We don't currently hence why people bring this topic up periodically. A true PG can put his teammates in better positions to score. Fred doesn't do that consistently at all. Even Kyle was more of a scoring PG. Passing on our roster has been a weak point for a LONG time. Scottie has been refreshing in this regard.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#107 » by Tha Cynic » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:25 pm

ItsDanger wrote:If you had 2 quality ISO scorers, you don't need a true PG. We don't currently hence why people bring this topic up periodically. A true PG can put his teammates in better positions to score. Fred doesn't do that consistently at all. Even Kyle was more of a scoring PG. Passing on our roster has been a weak point for a LONG time. Scottie has been refreshing in this regard.


Thorpe is on the radio right now talking about the Florida State program and why Barnes has the hype he has right now - he knows that to win, you need to do it as a team. It's really that simple, and something I am not seeing with the majority of the players on this team.

For fans here who are so pro Barnes, it is because they find the way the Raptors are playing right now ugly, individual baskervall, and that's why Barnes looks so lost right now at times, because this is so different than what he's used to as a team. It's not about Barnes getting 30 shots a game - it's about having the person who knows how to make the right play be more involved and be given more of an opportunity to show it.

FVV is a great player as a shooter and defender. He is not very good at controlling the game. He needs to understand that he can be a great player without having to always control the play, and he needs to trust people who are not Siakam, Birch and OG. It was very disappointing to watch him wave off the rookie play after play in the first several games. There's a reason why Barnes has become so passive as the games have gone on. You have a guy who's coming here with a very team oriented game and basically having him learn from guys who are all about individual play.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#108 » by HomieOmey » Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:37 pm

ItsDanger wrote:If you had 2 quality ISO scorers, you don't need a true PG. We don't currently hence why people bring this topic up periodically. A true PG can put his teammates in better positions to score. Fred doesn't do that consistently at all. Even Kyle was more of a scoring PG. Passing on our roster has been a weak point for a LONG time. Scottie has been refreshing in this regard.


Agreed. I would love to see FVV and/or Siakam next to a guy like Lavine or Beal for a decent stretch of time. Feel like either fit would be so perfect. Was definitely hoping Barnes would be the perfect fit to FVV from a playmaking perspective, so hopefully he continues to develop that way.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#109 » by johanliebert » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:18 am

He’s not a point guard!

Why is real gm stuck in 1999.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#110 » by Ref_from_hell » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:28 am

Looked like a true point guard today.

This is Fred's first year taking the reins from Kyle, let's give him some time
DelAbbot wrote:I fcked cheered when Gobert took out GTJ on that screen.

Fck that ballhog

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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#111 » by Tha Cynic » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:28 am

The end of this game showed why you want someone else to control the game for you. Him and Pascal basically went into hero mode and made shots today. They're lucky they faced a young team.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#112 » by Ref_from_hell » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:35 am

Tha Cynic wrote:The end of this game showed why you want someone else to control the game for you. Him and Pascal basically went into hero mode and made shots today. They're lucky they faced a young team.


Please be objective. At least try.
DelAbbot wrote:I fcked cheered when Gobert took out GTJ on that screen.

Fck that ballhog

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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#113 » by Los_29 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:36 am

Tha Cynic wrote:The end of this game showed why you want someone else to control the game for you. Him and Pascal basically went into hero mode and made shots today. They're lucky they faced a young team.


Did we watch the same game?
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#114 » by Tha Cynic » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:41 am

Ref_from_hell wrote:
Tha Cynic wrote:The end of this game showed why you want someone else to control the game for you. Him and Pascal basically went into hero mode and made shots today. They're lucky they faced a young team.


Please be objective. At least try.


He had a good shooting game.

FVV is not a bad player, he's exceptional at certain things and is a very good player. The issue is his personality. He thinks he's better than he is and doesn't trust his teammates enough. He also tends to think he can do more than he can.

When he needs to be an offensive sparks he can go on great runs. It's how he controls the game and works with his teammates that leaves a lot to be desired. You can basically see who he doesn't trust on the court when he plays, because he makes it very obvious.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#115 » by WaltFrazier » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:43 am

I been hard on Fred but tonight he actually did play like a pg. Kudos to him. He had a good rest each half while Flynn played and I think it helped. Good formula going forward. The offense went a bit stagnant right at the end but overall fine game.

He even had some nice pitch aheads on the break a la Kyle, ones he sometimes hangs onto
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#116 » by pingpongrac » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:43 am

Tha Cynic wrote:The end of this game showed why you want someone else to control the game for you. Him and Pascal basically went into hero mode and made shots today. They're lucky they faced a young team.
You have literally no idea wtf you are talking about lol. This was arguably one FVV's top 3 games as a "true point guard" this season. He was getting everyone involved, controlled the tempo all game and put up an extremely efficient 23/6/7 with 2 steals and 2 blocks to boot.

FVV literally had one bad possession late in the game when we were up 11 with less than 3 minutes left that resulted in a fast-break layup for Morant off the turnover. He wasn't going hero mode and neither was Siakam.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#117 » by johanliebert » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:17 am

Fred was a floor general in college. This board just doesn’t understand the game, yet knows what a point guards role is.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#118 » by johanliebert » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:27 am

kalel123 wrote:He has a role on a winner but not as primary playmaker especially down the stretch. But he's willing and able to take that shot and he can defend so if possible, you still want someone like him around. Only problem IMO is his size limits the kind of players that can play beside him and still be a playmaker. I know we won with Lowry and Van Vleet playing together but ideally, you want to be able to get someone with size.

Barnes could grow into that role and he's obviously got the size, which is why he's so intriguing. But he needs couple more years to establish himself, grow more confidence, earn the trust of coaching staff and teammates. But we do definitely need someone else to trust with the ball and no one on the team is that guy and only Barnes has a chance to be one on the current roster IMO. If not, need to go get one.

Yikes and this guys been here since 2004..quite a few in this thread have.

To follow the team that long and still not understand basketball is astonishing. I’ve yet to see what this board believes is a PG either this thread is just the officiate FVV table.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#119 » by bluerap23 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:12 pm

The funny thing is most people don't even know what the job of a pg is. The primary responsibility of a pg is to guard the point of attack. By actual definition Fred has been playing pg on this team for the past several years.
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Re: Is Fred a true point guard? 

Post#120 » by Oakvillehoops » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:16 pm

The team couldn’t score in the last 2.5 minutes of the game. If our D didn’t step up or the lead was more narrow we would have blown this game. Fred is amazing down the stretch, but in the clutch he needs to find the open man.

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