ImageImageImageImageImage

Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch

Moderators: 7 Footer, Reeko, lebron stopper, Morris_Shatford, DG88, niQ, gojoorange

terryjackson
Ballboy
Posts: 49
And1: 23
Joined: Aug 22, 2021

Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#1 » by terryjackson » Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:30 am

The season is going as expected with the Raptors at about 500. Most of the forum expected and was correct about the first and last 10 games of the season thus far. It's great to see a community with this level of basketball knowledge.

Boucher hasn't been performing well and we have spacing issues in the starting line up. Especially with Barnes and Birch starting, two players without any range is going to be tough in any line up that is thrown on the floor. I still believe in Bouchers ability to close out on shooters, rim protection, and his shot will come back. I don't see why his shot would suddenly become this bad this quick.

Situationally starting Boucher against teams like the Warriors that don't have a post presence on the level of Jokic, Embiid, etc should have been used. The biggest reason Boucher is struggling this season is he hasn't been rolling hard to the rim and there isn't a pick and roll guard on the roster that has been finding him.

Putting him next to Siakam, OG, and Barnes could work and it gives them extra space. Once Boucher returns to his past season form Barnes can bully his way into the lane, and Siakam/OG has more space for isolation. Most importantly it would work wonders for his confidence, seeing him try to drive into the lane is ugly. Boucher should be played towards his strengths, which are spotting up and rolling into the paint.

Banton and Achiuwa need more time in the Gleague. It's also important to note Achiuwa had a good game today. On his drives I can sense from his body language he knows he will struggle against bigger centers like Gobert. Opposing defenses know they can let off him and pack the paint as well making it harder for our forwards and guards.

Birch is too average. It's nice he can hit the short floater in the mid paint but that isn't going to get the Raptors far. They need spacing at the 5, and rim protection. He is not able to provide either of those and the scramble defense needs an anchor that can command players where to go.

Against smaller line ups ->

Boucher - Birch
Siakam - Watanabe
OG - Svi
Barnes - Trent
FVV - Flynn

Bigger line ups ->

Birch
Siakam
OG
Trent
FVV - Barnes

Physical games ->

Achiuwa
Siakam - Barnes
OG
Trent
FVV

Versatility is our strength and should be utilized.
User avatar
Dr Positivity
RealGM
Posts: 52,568
And1: 13,168
Joined: Apr 29, 2009
       

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#2 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:06 pm

Situationally start Siakam, Achiuwa and Birch maybe

Boucher I'm done with. Garbage time minutes only.
FREEDOM RULES
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 17,647
And1: 2,035
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#3 » by Indeed » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:49 pm

Boucher was playing well last game, because Banton was initiating PnR / PnP.
Our starting lineup has no one who can make that pass to our bigs, particularly our bigs aren't good at positioning themselves as a roller. Birch is alright, which is the reason VanVleet was able to feed him. Achiuwa and VanVleet wasn't good on offense, and I doubt Boucher and VanVleet, particularly VanVleet will look for his if Boucher is spacing the big away.
User avatar
bluerap23
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,339
And1: 4,261
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
   

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#4 » by bluerap23 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 7:58 pm

Boucher is starting to come around a little, but he has to hit 3's at a better rate to deserve serious rotation minutes. His ceiling is an energy guy off the bench that can stretch the floor. I don't see him as a starter.

I agree with some of your points though. We need to accept that this is a development year.

We have 2 rookies and a sophomore in the top 8 and another sophomore that needs more time as well. Boucher isn't a serious part of the future so it doesn't make sense to feed him more minutes.

On the bright side, we are starting to see some evidence that the shooting coaching the young guys are getting is paying off. Scottie, Banton and Precious are all looking a little better with their 3 point shots. If those guys develop a 35% 3pt shot on any kind of volume we will have a great future.
Image
terryjackson
Ballboy
Posts: 49
And1: 23
Joined: Aug 22, 2021

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#5 » by terryjackson » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Situationally start Siakam, Achiuwa and Birch maybe

Boucher I'm done with. Garbage time minutes only.

Boucher is likely not being brought back. Improving his value brings the Raptors back two 2nds for next year. Continuously having high end talent come into our GLeague team at reduced cost is great.

We have semblance to a corporate system in a way. Bring in youth that works hard and does the hard work on the court like defense, rebounding, sacrificing the body, etc. Then you have the more senior guys in the ball handling, isolation, center point roles. Masai has built great infrastructure within the franchise.

Achiuwa definitely needs GLeague time to get comfortable against bigger C's. He needs to become more shifty and then attack the opposing big. If Precious can master this he would eventually be able to live at the FT line and put the opposing center out of position and in foul trouble. However he is not capable of doing that now and looks overwhelmed on the court.

Boucher is the only C on the team that can stretch the floor, roll hard to the rim, and has some form of switchability. I am surprised no one thought about throwing it out there before.
User avatar
PrinceAli
RealGM
Posts: 10,749
And1: 17,267
Joined: Mar 11, 2018
         

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#6 » by PrinceAli » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:08 pm

I don’t really see any situations that Boucher should be starting in.

Against the smaller lineups we can just go without a 5 and have Scottie/Pascal take care of things. They’re both stronger than Boucher anyways
Image
User avatar
Psubs
RealGM
Posts: 12,995
And1: 8,476
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Toronto

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#7 » by Psubs » Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:11 pm

Boucher is still playing so he has some value beyond expiring salary filler.
Image
User avatar
HomieOmey
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,808
And1: 423
Joined: Jun 29, 2009
Location: TO
Contact:

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#8 » by HomieOmey » Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:17 pm

As long as the focus remains on trying to get the most out of Barnes/OG/Siakam/FVV as a unit, I don't care how much we tinker and experiment with the other guys. If playing Boucher less means less short term wins, I am ok with that as long as the team can see enough that they really want to keep those other 4 together. If this team really believes in Barnes, OG, Siakam, and FVV, I hope they do what they can to find them a better long term fit - even if the trade has us giving up more than we should need to. I just don't really get the point in starting Boucher unless we want to raise his trade value. My hope is he's still around only because the team is unsure about keeping Siakam. But if this team doesn't see themselves keeping him around, I'm a bit unsure why he's still here with the development of Precious, Banton, and Barnes being so important.
Image
TurboZ
Ackshun
Head Coach
Posts: 7,318
And1: 3,276
Joined: Jul 24, 2006

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#9 » by Ackshun » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:57 pm

He has done nothing this year to suggest he is an NBA player.

He belongs on the bench. In Europe.
User avatar
MixxSRC
General Manager
Posts: 7,831
And1: 13,732
Joined: Aug 01, 2013
 

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#10 » by MixxSRC » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:13 pm

Call me old-fashioned but I think there needs to be clear-cut Starter/bench.
johanliebert
General Manager
Posts: 7,521
And1: 4,338
Joined: Jun 16, 2015
 

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#11 » by johanliebert » Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:33 pm

Boucher has played more SF than C this season. they have ended the center experiment with him.
gp2015
RealGM
Posts: 10,534
And1: 7,165
Joined: Apr 13, 2007
Location: Toronto
     

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#12 » by gp2015 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:10 am

Last year was an aberration. I don't see him shooting close to 40% from 3 again. His shot is just way too inconsistent.

He's UFA and he's not going to be back. He should just get garbage minutes at this point, especially with the way he's performing.

Birch is much better at doing big man stuff. Precious has been bad but he needs minutes to develop. He's a part of the future until we find out that he's not going to get any better.
"I'm doing what I love to do. So if I can never walk again because of what I love to do, that's a chance I'll take. I'll die on the court." - Alvin Williams
terryjackson
Ballboy
Posts: 49
And1: 23
Joined: Aug 22, 2021

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#13 » by terryjackson » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:59 am

He was playing C last season and doing better than this season. He doesn't have the foot speed to be playing SF and his drives look UGLY.

He offers better shooting than either of the other C options. That is valuable if we want to showcase Siakam, OG, Barnes, and our other players. They need more room to operate
User avatar
WaltFrazier
General Manager
Posts: 8,217
And1: 7,041
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Location: Ontario
       

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#14 » by WaltFrazier » Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:12 am

Psubs wrote:Boucher is still playing so he has some value beyond expiring salary filler.


Hopefully at the deadline he can help bring back an actual useful player, not just picks.
User avatar
WaltFrazier
General Manager
Posts: 8,217
And1: 7,041
Joined: Jan 21, 2006
Location: Ontario
       

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#15 » by WaltFrazier » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:26 pm

After the Memphis game, never Boucher. The other two need to alternate being on court almost all the time, with a few short small ball lineups mixed in
User avatar
LBJKB24MJ23
RealGM
Posts: 15,954
And1: 15,415
Joined: Jan 22, 2014
     

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#16 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:49 pm

Boucher is a bench big for life. too streaky. too thin. too low BBIQ at times.
terryjackson
Ballboy
Posts: 49
And1: 23
Joined: Aug 22, 2021

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#17 » by terryjackson » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:27 pm

WaltFrazier wrote:After the Memphis game, never Boucher. The other two need to alternate being on court almost all the time, with a few short small ball lineups mixed in

Last season I would lurk this forum and see Raptor fans asking for a late lotto pick for Boucher. I would say last season he was realistically a low 1st.

This season we would be lucky to squeeze a 2nd out of a team like the Bulls. Disappointing how much he has fallen off.

The reason he fell off is likely due to Lowry leaving, and a lack of a pick and roll ball handler on the squad. It's beyond me why Nurse thinks playing a lumbering big like Boucher at the 3 is a good idea. He should be a C and situational PF despite his weak frame.
User avatar
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 52,553
And1: 41,455
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: Situationally Starting Boucher/Achiuwa/Birch 

Post#18 » by Raps in 4 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 5:31 pm

MixxSRC wrote:Call me old-fashioned but I think there needs to be clear-cut Starter/bench.


The Gasol/Ibaka platoon worked out great for us.

Return to Toronto Raptors