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Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff

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Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#1 » by ruckus » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:43 pm

Since Pascal has returned our DRTG has gone from a 103.4 over the first 10 games to a ridiculous 117 over the last 8. For the season the team is a below average 109.4.

Let me couch this by saying that I don't put all the blame at the feet of Pascal, it's just an easy demarcation at this point of the season.

There could be a number of reasons - Birch and Achiuwa have been in and out of the lineup, OG is a big factor as well. And going back to Pascal, Nurse is trying to find lineups that work again.

Small sample sizes and all but what worked during the first 10 games that isn't working now? What changed?
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#2 » by bluerap23 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:52 pm

Yes, major concern. While, not exactly Pascal's fault, he was defending very poorly at the beginning of his return. Scottie has looked really bad the last couple games as well. I noticed he is wearing a leg wrap. I wonder if his mobility is limited in some way.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#3 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:44 pm

I think this is probably variance
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#4 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:46 pm

ruckus wrote:Since Pascal has returned our DRTG has gone from a 103.4 over the first 10 games to a ridiculous 117 over the last 8. For the season the team is a below average 109.4.

Let me couch this by saying that I don't put all the blame at the feet of Pascal, it's just an easy demarcation at this point of the season.

There could be a number of reasons - Birch and Achiuwa have been in and out of the lineup, OG is a big factor as well. And going back to Pascal, Nurse is trying to find lineups that work again.

Small sample sizes and all but what worked during the first 10 games that isn't working now? What changed?

No OG either.

So it’s hard to gauge what the Raptors defense is going to be by end of season.


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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#5 » by ruckus » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:54 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:I think this is probably variance


Thats a possibility. Over the first 10 games, 2 were against bad offensive teams (CLE and ORL), 2 were against good offensive teams (CHI and NYK) and the remaining 6 were middle of the pack (ORTG between 106-107).

The last 8 games, 5 have been against good offensive teams, 2 against middling teams (BKN/BOS) and 1 bad offensive team (DET).
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#6 » by vulture » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:56 pm

Ok so I've been tracking this on Synergy and noticed that once Pascal came back we started putting in our various zone defenses. Box and one, triangle and 2, 2-1-2 were inputted in knowing full well we had this road trip coming up against teams like the blazers, Jazz, warriors and Grizzlies where we would use these schemes.

It's especially difficult to do this in the middle of the season with guys in and out of the lineup and with a young team. Obviously the lack of experience and chemistry playing theses various zone defenses is the reason for the struggles defensively.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#7 » by johanliebert » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:01 pm



when you cheat your teammates effort wise like this its easy to blame Pascal.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#8 » by PD28 » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:05 pm

OG is super underrated around here. Pascal and Scottie don't hold a candle to him defensively.

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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#9 » by Gold Dragon » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:27 pm

1. Injuries. Pascal coming back and bring rusty. All of OG, Fred, Birch, Precious have missed games in this period. With all these lineup changes there has also been terrible communication. This will be fixed once we get some continuity when the team is finally healthy.

2. Youth. Barnes is unfortunately a big part of it as he is a rook picking up a lot of very difficult concepts and playing multiple defensive roles on ball, off ball, perimeter, inside. The last few games Barnes has been a big source of our defensive miscues. Playing veteran teams like Utah and GSW will expose rooks. For Scottie, getting into foul trouble early is probably affecting his aggressiveness but maybe there is an injury there too that we are not privy to. Banton had several miscues too but with a smaller role against mostly bench players they are less noticeable. Fred said it well. They are just doing young stuff as in learning the ropes of the nba that all young players have to pick up.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#10 » by Indeed » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:25 am

Gold Dragon wrote:1. Injuries. Pascal coming back and bring rusty. All of OG, Fred, Birch, Precious have missed games in this period. With all these lineup changes there has also been terrible communication. This will be fixed once we get some continuity when the team is finally healthy.

2. Youth. Barnes is unfortunately a big part of it as he is a rook picking up a lot of very difficult concepts and playing multiple defensive roles on ball, off ball, perimeter, inside. The last few games Barnes has been a big source of our defensive miscues. Playing veteran teams like Utah and GSW will expose rooks. For Scottie, getting into foul trouble early is probably affecting his aggressiveness but maybe there is an injury there too that we are not privy to. Banton had several miscues too but with a smaller role against mostly bench players they are less noticeable. Fred said it well. They are just doing young stuff as in learning the ropes of the nba that all young players have to pick up.


I don't buy the injury. And no way we are ranked 30th in the last 8 games:
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=8

I saw some mistakes from our rookies, but I would be surprised they are the sole reason we are ranked 30th over the last 8 games. If we are ranked 20th, it is more acceptable to me for blaming on the youth.

I think there some to do with our defensive system and our personality.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#11 » by WaltFrazier » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:34 am

Pascal's return coincided with one of Birch then Precious being hurt. And Nurse chose not to start the healthy center of those two. When OG comes back and both centers are healthy, what will Nick do. To me if he starts Birch we have a chance to gel and improve on D. If he starts the "best 5" then either Pascal or Scottie will continue to be uncomfortable and outmatched guarding big centers.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#12 » by Gold Dragon » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:36 am

Indeed wrote:
Gold Dragon wrote:1. Injuries. Pascal coming back and bring rusty. All of OG, Fred, Birch, Precious have missed games in this period. With all these lineup changes there has also been terrible communication. This will be fixed once we get some continuity when the team is finally healthy.

2. Youth. Barnes is unfortunately a big part of it as he is a rook picking up a lot of very difficult concepts and playing multiple defensive roles on ball, off ball, perimeter, inside. The last few games Barnes has been a big source of our defensive miscues. Playing veteran teams like Utah and GSW will expose rooks. For Scottie, getting into foul trouble early is probably affecting his aggressiveness but maybe there is an injury there too that we are not privy to. Banton had several miscues too but with a smaller role against mostly bench players they are less noticeable. Fred said it well. They are just doing young stuff as in learning the ropes of the nba that all young players have to pick up.


I don't buy the injury. And no way we are ranked 30th in the last 8 games:
https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LastNGames=8

I saw some mistakes from our rookies, but I would be surprised they are the sole reason we are ranked 30th over the last 8 games.If we are ranked 20th, it is more acceptable to me for blaming on the youth.

I think there some to do with our defensive system and our personality.


I agree with bolded. See my point #1.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#13 » by Psubs » Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:50 am

PD28 wrote:OG is super underrated around here. Pascal and Scottie don't hold a candle to him defensively.

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Last season, I said that OG is the most untouchable player on the team.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#14 » by HiJiNX » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:53 am

Just lineup continuity. We will be fine in a couple more weeks.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#15 » by C_Money » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:21 am

No mention so far of Nurse’s system designed to pack the paint and leave open shooters. This is the real thing thats killing us and definitely responsible for a few losses already.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#16 » by ontnut » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:37 am

I think more than anything it has to do with our high MPG for our starters. Our defence needs guys to fly around the court and contest everything. There's a LOT of movement. These guys get gassed and it shows in the inconsistency esp on D.

The thing is, you could say Nick needs to play the bench more, but our bench has been getting killed.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#17 » by God Squad » Tue Nov 23, 2021 10:05 am

Nurse's defense has been pretty suspect. The defense since Pascal returned as looked awful regardless of adding another 6'9 " all star".

Spoiler:
Forget Baynes. Nurse is the secret tank commander
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#18 » by Indeed » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:14 pm

C_Money wrote:No mention so far of Nurse’s system designed to pack the paint and leave open shooters. This is the real thing thats killing us and definitely responsible for a few losses already.


Or in another name "over helping", regardless in the paint or on the perimeter.
It turns out to me that we are more gambling on being close and aggressive, but giving up the drive that ended up relies on our not so good rotation that leaves perimeter shooters open.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#19 » by Johnny Bball » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:20 pm

Nah this hasn’t been a fluke. We’ve been just bad. We have missed OG that’s for sure, but it can’t be this much. I mean we’ve been about the worst in the league the last 7 or so.

That last extra pass playing Against the GSW KiLLED us. Siakam and Barnes were late every single time, over helping in the post.
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Re: Our Defense Has Fallen Off a Cliff 

Post#20 » by TheRealDeal » Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:40 pm

One thing that hasn’t helped is Pascals condition. He said on open gym that he hasn’t played much 5 on 5 since before the surgery so his legs felt heavy out there. It definitely showed early on

People were saying he was playing lazy defense but I think he just couldn’t physically do it

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