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SFour wrote:I think Nurse needs to switch up his defensive gameplan.....teams around the league have figured out the scramble defense at this point, they know how to get open corner 3s at will against the Raptors

Johnny Bball wrote:Nah this hasn’t been a fluke. We’ve been just bad. We have missed OG that’s for sure, but it can’t be this much. I mean we’ve been about the worst in the league the last 7 or so.

That last extra pass playing Against the GSW KiLLED us. Siakam and Barnes were late every single time, over helping in the post.

sbsat wrote:

witnessraps wrote:Teams get wide open corner 3s against us like clockwork. This needs to be fixed, we are in a 3 point era, can't be allowing wide open 3s all game, they are like layups these days. Wiggins was just living in that corner last game.

It reminds me of the game we had vs rockets a few years back were scrubs on the rockets torched us via corner Threes over and over again. Rivers jr mclamore etc. It's tough to watch sometimes

HiJiNX wrote:Guys, if we stop doubling then we stop getting deflections and steals. So it’s kind of a pick your poison.

But nobody was complaining on our win streak, with the same scheme that was shutting people down. Even Cleveland we shut down except for Garland who abused FVV and Rubio who abused Banton.

When the scheme works it’s incredible. When it doesn’t it’s awful. It’s very high variance. If we were to change the scheme we would likely have a very mediocre defence anyway given our lack of size inside. I think this is the way it has to be unless we obtain more size. Let’s just hope the players master it sooner rather than later.

Indeed wrote:

HiJiNX wrote:Guys, if we stop doubling then we stop getting deflections and steals. So it’s kind of a pick your poison.

But nobody was complaining on our win streak, with the same scheme that was shutting people down. Even Cleveland we shut down except for Garland who abused FVV and Rubio who abused Banton.

When the scheme works it’s incredible. When it doesn’t it’s awful. It’s very high variance. If we were to change the scheme we would likely have a very mediocre defence anyway given our lack of size inside. I think this is the way it has to be unless we obtain more size. Let’s just hope the players master it sooner rather than later.

Wasn't it Trent who also got abused?
From the last 2 mins report:
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022100127&eventNum=2127
- Birch cut off driving lane for no reason, OG rotate over to tag and leave wide open 3
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022100127&eventNum=2134
- Went the wrong way for a clear path

DelAbbot wrote:In the first 5 games, we looked like top 10 defensively - by the eye test it was due to Achiuwa being at centre.

• First 9 games: 102.5 (214 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 109.6 (151 minutes)

• First 9 games: 98.7 (218 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 119.6 (281 minutes)

DelAbbot wrote:I don't buy the argument that it's injuries and lack of lineup continuity that caused our defense to fall off a cliff. We had more injuries in 2019/2020 season before Covid and we had "next man up" and kept up the defense.

Los Soles wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:In the first 5 games, we looked like top 10 defensively - by the eye test it was due to Achiuwa being at centre.

Problem with this argument is that the team has played appreciably worse on defense in the last few games both with Achiuwa on the court and when he's on the bench.

Defensive rating with Achiuwa ON:

• First 9 games: 102.5 (214 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 109.6 (151 minutes)

Defensive rating with Achiuwa OFF:

• First 9 games: 98.7 (218 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 119.6 (281 minutes)

DelAbbot wrote:I don't buy the argument that it's injuries and lack of lineup continuity that caused our defense to fall off a cliff. We had more injuries in 2019/2020 season before Covid and we had "next man up" and kept up the defense.

You don't think lack of continuity combined with youth/inexperience has anything to do with it? E.g., perhaps lineup inconsistency affects Marc Gasol and Kyle Lowry less than it affects Scottie Barnes and Precious Achiuwa?

Indeed wrote:

HiJiNX wrote:Guys, if we stop doubling then we stop getting deflections and steals. So it’s kind of a pick your poison.

But nobody was complaining on our win streak, with the same scheme that was shutting people down. Even Cleveland we shut down except for Garland who abused FVV and Rubio who abused Banton.

When the scheme works it’s incredible. When it doesn’t it’s awful. It’s very high variance. If we were to change the scheme we would likely have a very mediocre defence anyway given our lack of size inside. I think this is the way it has to be unless we obtain more size. Let’s just hope the players master it sooner rather than later.

Wasn't it Trent who also got abused?
From the last 2 mins report:
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022100127&eventNum=2127
- Birch cut off driving lane for no reason, OG rotate over to tag and leave wide open 3
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022100127&eventNum=2134
- Went the wrong way for a clear path

HumbleRen wrote:

Read on Twitter

GLF wrote:

Los Soles wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:In the first 5 games, we looked like top 10 defensively - by the eye test it was due to Achiuwa being at centre.

Problem with this argument is that the team has played appreciably worse on defense in the last few games both with Achiuwa on the court and when he's on the bench.

Defensive rating with Achiuwa ON:

• First 9 games: 102.5 (214 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 109.6 (151 minutes)

Defensive rating with Achiuwa OFF:

• First 9 games: 98.7 (218 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 119.6 (281 minutes)

DelAbbot wrote:I don't buy the argument that it's injuries and lack of lineup continuity that caused our defense to fall off a cliff. We had more injuries in 2019/2020 season before Covid and we had "next man up" and kept up the defense.

You don't think lack of continuity combined with youth/inexperience has anything to do with it? E.g., perhaps lineup inconsistency affects Marc Gasol and Kyle Lowry less than it affects Scottie Barnes and Precious Achiuwa?

It's still not great but in the last 9 games with Precious on it's 109.6 and with Precious off it's 119.6. That's a 10 point difference. That's pretty significant to me. Precious isn't a good offensive player by any means but the defence is definitely better when he's on the floor. At least lately.

• First 9 games: 98.8 (208 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 123.7 (136 minutes)

Los Soles wrote:

GLF wrote:

Los Soles wrote:Problem with this argument is that the team has played appreciably worse on defense in the last few games both with Achiuwa on the court and when he's on the bench.

Defensive rating with Achiuwa ON:

• First 9 games: 102.5 (214 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 109.6 (151 minutes)

Defensive rating with Achiuwa OFF:

• First 9 games: 98.7 (218 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 119.6 (281 minutes)

You don't think lack of continuity combined with youth/inexperience has anything to do with it? E.g., perhaps lineup inconsistency affects Marc Gasol and Kyle Lowry less than it affects Scottie Barnes and Precious Achiuwa?

It's still not great but in the last 9 games with Precious on it's 109.6 and with Precious off it's 119.6. That's a 10 point difference. That's pretty significant to me. Precious isn't a good offensive player by any means but the defence is definitely better when he's on the floor. At least lately.

I mean...sure. But this is a huge problem that has nothing to do with Achiuwa:

Defensive rating with Birch ON:

• First 9 games: 98.8 (208 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 123.7 (136 minutes)

Birch didn't go from being awesome at defense to terrible at defense all of a sudden. There are clearly other things at play besides *not enough Achiuwa*.

HiJiNX wrote:

Los Soles wrote:

GLF wrote:
It's still not great but in the last 9 games with Precious on it's 109.6 and with Precious off it's 119.6. That's a 10 point difference. That's pretty significant to me. Precious isn't a good offensive player by any means but the defence is definitely better when he's on the floor. At least lately.

I mean...sure. But this is a huge problem that has nothing to do with Achiuwa:

Defensive rating with Birch ON:

• First 9 games: 98.8 (208 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 123.7 (136 minutes)

Birch didn't go from being awesome at defense to terrible at defense all of a sudden. There are clearly other things at play besides *not enough Achiuwa*.

I think a lot of it is on Birch though. He can’t guard the pnr and I think what we are seeing is more teams are figuring that out.

HiJiNX wrote:

Indeed wrote:

HiJiNX wrote:Guys, if we stop doubling then we stop getting deflections and steals. So it’s kind of a pick your poison.

But nobody was complaining on our win streak, with the same scheme that was shutting people down. Even Cleveland we shut down except for Garland who abused FVV and Rubio who abused Banton.

When the scheme works it’s incredible. When it doesn’t it’s awful. It’s very high variance. If we were to change the scheme we would likely have a very mediocre defence anyway given our lack of size inside. I think this is the way it has to be unless we obtain more size. Let’s just hope the players master it sooner rather than later.

Wasn't it Trent who also got abused?
From the last 2 mins report:
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022100127&eventNum=2127
- Birch cut off driving lane for no reason, OG rotate over to tag and leave wide open 3
https://official.nba.com/last-two-minute-report/?gameNo=0022100127&eventNum=2134
- Went the wrong way for a clear path

I’m not sure what I’m supposed to be seeing here. The first was a missed shot from Osman after Barnes defended the pnr penetration and Trent Jr. caught up to the play after initially losing Garland in space and the second was a tie up (which might have actually been a travel). Both were caused because Trent Jr. didn’t give up on the play. So the initial defence did it’s job. But those are also just two plays. Go back and watch the whole second half and see who Cleveland was targeting (FVV and Birch).

FVV can’t stay with fast guards. At all. This game isn’t the only example. Maxey also abused FVV with numerous clear blow bys. FVV just doesn’t have the athletic attributes to deal with those guys. It actually makes me worried for our matchup with Morant tomorrow, especially if Morant is making shots.

DelAbbot wrote:

HumbleRen wrote:

Read on Twitter

what's the joke/punchline?

Los Soles wrote:

HiJiNX wrote:

Los Soles wrote:I mean...sure. But this is a huge problem that has nothing to do with Achiuwa:

Defensive rating with Birch ON:

• First 9 games: 98.8 (208 minutes)
• Last 9 games: 123.7 (136 minutes)

Birch didn't go from being awesome at defense to terrible at defense all of a sudden. There are clearly other things at play besides *not enough Achiuwa*.

I think a lot of it is on Birch though. He can’t guard the pnr and I think what we are seeing is more teams are figuring that out.

Perhaps (part of) the solution is the same, even if there are varying theories about the cause: return to combos that worked early in the season.

Starters: FVV-Trent-OG-Siakam-Achiuwa
Bench: Banton-____-Barnes-Boucher-Birch

Regardless of why these were working early season...they were working. Restore continuity and do stuff that works. The significant change is Siakam: he has to start, because max contract. It seems like this starting unit should do pretty well. And Barnes would get more touches and add value to the already successful Banton-Boucher-Birch combo. (Depending on match-ups, perhaps small-ball to close games/halves.)