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PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade

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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#161 » by WaltFrazier » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:17 pm

ruckus wrote:Nice comeback win.

Precious proving that the Biyombo comparisons were lazy.

Sure, if he keeps making threes every game
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#162 » by Dennis 37 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:19 pm

Los_29 wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
alienchild wrote:
Old man yelling at clouds...


lol

complain complain complain when we lose.
complain some more when we win. lol.


I believe two months ago he was comparing GTJ to Danny Green and was saying that age is irrelevant because GTJ doesn't have the ability to improve whereas Norm did.


There is an article in today's news where Mr. O'Toole is blaming Mr. Trudeau's policies for inflation. I counter that criticism, without alternative strategy, is useless. It is just noise. Mr. O'Toole, would you support a hike in interest rates, or 70s style wage and price controls? What? Don't just give us noise.

My point is that the responders to Boogie's suggestion that wins are unsustainable should be met with counter argument, not ridicule of past statements. To refute a present statement, which may or may not have validity, with reference to past statements is a logical fallacy. Ad hominem, I believe, is what fits here.

"Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it."

The people, who suggested that the inclusion of Khem and OG, along with Yuta over Boucher, would contribute to sustainability, were engaging in the debate.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#163 » by PoundTown » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:26 pm

Kingsway_fan wrote:I can see why raptors management is high on Precious.

He should start.

Second half was as good a half as the team has played all season. Hopefully, they can build on that.

Still getting tired of paacals one one one forcing it on offense mindset... hopefully the team learns how to pass it around mote rather than the selfish play we have seen all season.

When OG us back, team gonna have a lot of depth... yuta and Flynn were great and really contributed when out there.

Boucher has fallen off the cliff this season... and should be relegated to spot minutes until he shows he deserves more...

Fred and Trent were solid....

Barnes back to the form we saw at the beginning and hopefully his defence continues to improve, and now, he is starting to make three pointers.. a great sign of things to come...

Great win.


If at the end of his rookie contract he can offensively perform at that level, we have our center. I don't mean 3/3 from 3, but I mean, decent percentages, averaging 1 - 1.5 3s a game. Still has a long way to go, but if he can be a bit more explosive version of Birch offensively, and get rid of that tunnell vision, shoot 50 percent on 2's, and 35 percent on 3's, then we are good to go. I'm thinking something in the middle ground of Birch and Ibaka, as I don't think he'll ever be as reliable a relief valve as Ibaka, but you also see flashes of him being able to be a pusher on transition and a guy that can get downhill in a hurry.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#164 » by Dennis 37 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:32 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:FVV is also a way way way better player than this board gives him credit for.


We have a history of being most critical of our star players. Fred is a great player. We know what he does very well. We know it so well that we expect it and rarely comment on it. When he has a great game we shrug and say, "Well that's what we expect, so nothing special."

So, when we criticize him for attempting to do a layup against 2 post defenders both a foot taller than him, or taking three consecutive three point shots, it is not being overly critical. We simply know that Fred is capable of better decisions, or he is getting direction from Nurse with which we don't agree. It is not hate, nor is it lack of recognition of his talents.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#165 » by Dennis 37 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:48 pm

fbalmeida wrote:Win, as fun as it was, at times, frustrating.

TSN put up a graphic that showed we were the most inexperienced team in the league if you subtract Goran Dragic, which we likely will be doing shortly.

It shows.

Bad halfcourt offense. Dumb mistake prone defense with no rim protection.

Still good enough to beat the Grizzlies.

It kills me knowing that we'd be good enough to win a lot more games if only we had a 3rd string center protecting the rim, stepping in for Birch or Precious when they miss games, instead of putting Siakam on rim protection detail against the likes of Ja, JJJ, and frickin' Khal Drogo.



We would have that with New Fred. Too bad New Fred collapsed under the pressure of competition. He just couldn't compete for a job, whereas last year, when he was gifted the job, he showed enough to be that 3rd string center.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#166 » by WaltFrazier » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:53 pm

Just rewatched 3rd quarter on TV. Fred was solid and unselfish. Lots of nice passes to layups. Barnes had a nice stretch doing a bit of everything. Precious awesome and active. Yuta a real glue guy and scoring will come.

Great win over a team that just beat Jazz in Utah
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#167 » by Danny1616 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:54 pm

Dennis 37 wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:FVV is also a way way way better player than this board gives him credit for.


We have a history of being most critical of our star players. Fred is a great player. We know what he does very well. We know it so well that we expect it and rarely comment on it. When he has a great game we shrug and say, "Well that's what we expect, so nothing special."

So, when we criticize hm for attempting to do a layup against 2 post defenders both a foot taller than him, or taking three consecutive three point shots, it is not being overly critical. We simply know that Fred is capable of better decisions, or he is getting direction from Nurse with which we don't agree. It is not hate, nor is it lack of recognition of his talents.


Sure, that's fair criticism.

Unfair criticism is saying Fred is intentionally stunting Barnes growth, is selfish for saying he wants to be all-star and make the all-defensive team, is a ball hog who is only about himself, will never be able to a point guard etc.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#168 » by rarefind » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:54 pm

NN is still experimenting with his rotations. I don't know why there isn't more talk of this....

He did the same thing last year in Tampa where we got out the gate slow then snapped before our whole team came down with covid. We are more than likely a playoff team.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#169 » by Ref_from_hell » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:02 pm

Gold Dragon wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:
OhCanada1091 wrote:I'm thinking about making a video of all the times FVV doesn't pass the ball to Scottie but Im so busy with work lately. He's blatantly forcing passes to other players instead of making the right play, it happened many times in this game. Also in crunch time he couldn't just let Scottie handle the ball? Three times he took the ball out of Scotties hands in crunch time and two times it led to a turnover.

Im a big Fred Van Vleet fan and by no means am I on the side that wants us to trade him and develop Barnes and Banton but he needs to do better. Those two plays in transition were gimmes but he's gotta be more willing to trust Scottie. I hope they try to bring him off the bench when OG comes back.
Weird. I don't remember that at all. Seeing as we only had 1 turnover in the entire 4th quarter, that seems like just another made up stat/occurrence that fits the narrative that FVV is unwilling to pass to Barnes which is making us worse. FVV (and the rest of the team) doesn't need to pass Barnes the ball every single possession lol. Giving a rookie the ball to handle every possession in crunch time when we're trying to eat up clock doesn't seem the greatest plan either.

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These are the two turnovers in crunch time

https://go.nba.com/3bih

This one is Barnes not planning to do anything with the ball except pass it to one of our guards. Fred comes back and Barnes passes it too far and it becomes a backcourt.

https://go.nba.com/5dbz

This one is Fred trying to pass to either Gary or Scottie but both are well covered but he had already commited to the pass and he was too off balance to get it over the defenders and ended up passing it to Bane instead. This was Fred's fault and it is fair to blame his vision and playmaking abilities here. If you look at the angle of the pass, I think he was trying to get it to Scottie.

Neither of these plays is about Fred being selfish or looking off Scottie.


Thank you for providing the evidence. It's amazing how some people here just make up a random **** that never happened to justify hating on Fred.
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Fck that ballhog

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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#170 » by Jadoogar » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:19 pm

bape_lovers wrote:Birch is our best offensive rebounder then

Kingsway_fan wrote:
bape_lovers wrote:Missing our best wing scorer/defender and our best rebounder …pretty sure that’s not everybody



Prexious is our best rebounder..


i would argue Scottie is our best rebounder
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#171 » by Jadoogar » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:24 pm

Chandan wrote:
Ref_from_hell wrote:
Chandan wrote:fred wants to bet on himself when it comes to fans choosing him or barnes, it's not a fight he can win.


Did he text you that after the game? Y'all must be tight


nah but he needs to give the ball to barnes every single time when I see barnes signal for the ball. I dont even care if it's the right play or not or if they lose as a result.


i really dislike fans like this.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#172 » by Kingsway_fan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:28 pm

PoundTown wrote:
Kingsway_fan wrote:I can see why raptors management is high on Precious.

He should start.

Second half was as good a half as the team has played all season. Hopefully, they can build on that.

Still getting tired of paacals one one one forcing it on offense mindset... hopefully the team learns how to pass it around mote rather than the selfish play we have seen all season.

When OG us back, team gonna have a lot of depth... yuta and Flynn were great and really contributed when out there.

Boucher has fallen off the cliff this season... and should be relegated to spot minutes until he shows he deserves more...

Fred and Trent were solid....

Barnes back to the form we saw at the beginning and hopefully his defence continues to improve, and now, he is starting to make three pointers.. a great sign of things to come...

Great win.


If at the end of his rookie contract he can offensively perform at that level, we have our center. I don't mean 3/3 from 3, but I mean, decent percentages, averaging 1 - 1.5 3s a game. Still has a long way to go, but if he can be a bit more explosive version of Birch offensively, and get rid of that tunnell vision, shoot 50 percent on 2's, and 35 percent on 3's, then we are good to go. I'm thinking something in the middle ground of Birch and Ibaka, as I don't think he'll ever be as reliable a relief valve as Ibaka, but you also see flashes of him being able to be a pusher on transition and a guy that can get downhill in a hurry.


agreed.. his ceiling is high ...

on another note, Trent really needs to get his rebounding and passing numbers up ... hope he really works on that aspect of his game ...
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#173 » by lolwut » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:30 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:Still amazed at how Barnes is able to score. Never thought he'd be getting 15+ a night year 1. I thought anything over 9 would be a success. Could be a 20pt scorer before the end of his rookie deal

He seems really good at recognizing and attacking mismatches. A lot of his points come from making simple shots over smaller defenders. If he doesn't have a mismatch, then he'll most likely kick it out instead of forcing up a shot he doesn't like. He basically doesn't take bad shots.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#174 » by Kingsway_fan » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:33 pm

Jadoogar wrote:
bape_lovers wrote:Birch is our best offensive rebounder then

Kingsway_fan wrote:
Prexious is our best rebounder..


i would argue Scottie is our best rebounder


ah, yes .. you may be right ...
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#175 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:35 pm

WaltFrazier wrote:
ruckus wrote:Nice comeback win.

Precious proving that the Biyombo comparisons were lazy.

Sure, if he keeps making threes every game


he will, once he gets over this developmental stage. people expecting him to come in and be a generational big, considering all the types of slander against this kid - usually reserved for that type of player.
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#176 » by Yeezus_ » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:37 pm

Who would've thought our offense would be 7th in the league almost a quarter way into the season? lol
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#177 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:38 pm

Yeezus_ wrote:Who would've thought our offense would be 7th in the league almost a quarter way into the season? lol


9th. but still above the expectations:

http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats

and 28th in PACE lol
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#178 » by WaltFrazier » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:38 pm

Rewatched 4th just now. I said in the game thread it was key that we got the lead up to 11 between 5 and 3 minutes remaining. Because after that our offense got tight and stagnant and we scored very little. If it was closer all the way they might have caught us
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#179 » by Scott Hall » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:51 pm

Read on Twitter
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Re: PG: Trent for Powell is Masai's worst trade 

Post#180 » by niQ » Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:08 pm

Re-watched the highlights. Man, Ja is going to be special.
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