Tank World Order (7.0)

[TRik]

FVV at 22M and be a 13-14 shot attempts out of the SG spot up role, I like him.

FVV at 30M and lead the team in shot attempts and time of ball handling, please trade him.

Preach Del. This isn’t about not liking Fred, it’s about liking him in a modified role.

I really don't believe FVV will agree to being the 3rd option behind Barnes and Siakam, as he should be, if we are to become championship contenders.

I estimate FVV will try to get close to 30M on his next extension in FA 2023, after he declines his PO.

Masai's philosophy is to help our guys get paid, but he never said by us.

Let’s be honest, his floor spacing is very needed for this current team. I know you’re likely right in terms of his acceptance of role but it would be amazing if he was accepting. I love the thought of him running to the corners and being the outlet option. Yes he sometimes can’t shoot over people, but you can’t have everything.

[Los_29]

Didn't Fred win a championship already. What role did he have then?

You can talk all you want about Fred not accepting a lesser role but that opinion isn't based on reality.

What about Fred suggests he's not a team player?

[DelAbbot]

Preach Del. This isn’t about not liking Fred, it’s about liking him in a modified role.

I really don't believe FVV will agree to being the 3rd option behind Barnes and Siakam, as he should be, if we are to become championship contenders.

I estimate FVV will try to get close to 30M on his next extension in FA 2023, after he declines his PO.

Masai's philosophy is to help our guys get paid, but he never said by us.

Let’s be honest, his floor spacing is very needed for this current team. I know you’re likely right in terms of his acceptance of role but it would be amazing if he was accepting. I love the thought of him running to the corners and being the outlet option. Yes he sometimes can’t shoot over people, but you can’t have everything.

Yes, his shooting role is championship winning, as he has already proven. If he stays in that spot up shooter role, with Barnes and Siakam as the Kawhi and Lowry roles, then please keep FVV around 22M.

[HumbleRen]

Team's ceiling with FVV as the lead ball handler is limited.

Team's ceiling with FVV being the off guard is very high.

[Chandan]

Team's ceiling with FVV as the lead ball handler is limited.

Team's ceiling with FVV being the off guard is very high.

It would be as high as having any good shooters.

[HumbleRen]

Team's ceiling with FVV as the lead ball handler is limited.

Team's ceiling with FVV being the off guard is very high.

It would be as high as having any good shooters.

Nah, FVV brings alot more to the table than what a shooter brings. He's almost the perfect 3&D player except he's 5'11.

[KL78192020]

I think it's possible we see a big trade this trade deadline. Cash in on FVV at his "peak", free up more creation oppos for Barnes, stay in the lottery in 2022 draft, draft a young prospect to add to Barnes, OG, Siakam = win, win, win, win

It just makes so much sense to do this, and turbo-charge our rebuild with assets from trading FVV and our lottery pick in 2022 draft. FVV ain't no longboi

I want to see a Kevin Costneresque Draft Day type scenario where Masai trades a first for guard bench depth, but then out of the blue gets a great offer for siakam, trades him, and then works a deal for van vleet. Just pure madness, and leads the season into a tWo death spiral.

You really don't like FVV, huh? Too bad he is the heart and soul of the team and your trade scenario is about equally as likely. Oh well, it is fun to dream!

FVV at 22M and be a 13-14 shot attempts out of the SG spot up role, I like him.

FVV at 30M and lead the team in shot attempts and time of ball handling, please trade him.

Thats pretty much the problem that some don't understand. FVV was a 4th option on championship team, now he's the 1st option on a lottery team. Next summer he's going to demand 30 million, paying FVV that when he should be a 3rd option is not deal, Team PWO doesn't get it.

[TRik]

Didn't Fred win a championship already. What role did he have then?

You can talk all you want about Fred not accepting a lesser role but that opinion isn't based on reality.

What about Fred suggests he's not a team player?

Hey dude, a bunch of people see the currently Raptors different and likewise Fred’s current role. I don’t think there’s much of an appetite atm to continue to debate it though.

Just some things we don’t see the same and that’s ok. RAPS FOREVER!!!

[Los_29]

Didn't Fred win a championship already. What role did he have then?

You can talk all you want about Fred not accepting a lesser role but that opinion isn't based on reality.

What about Fred suggests he's not a team player?

Hey dude, a bunch of people see the currently Raptors different and likewise Fred’s current role. I don’t think there’s much of an appetite atm to continue to debate it though.

Just some things we don’t see the same and that’s ok. RAPS FOREVER!!!

Aren't we on a basketball forum?

That's fine, I am simply asking him to state why he believes in what he believes in. There is simply nothing to suggest that Fred won't accept a lesser role if that time comes. He's won a championship and I'm sure he wants to win another one.

Do you not think Fred is a team player and wants to win?

[billy_hoyle]

Team's ceiling with FVV as the lead ball handler is limited.

Team's ceiling with FVV being the off guard is very high.

It would be as high as having any good shooters.

Nah, FVV brings alot more to the table than what a shooter brings. He's almost the perfect 3&D player except he's 5'11.

I think he's the perfect 3&D PG.

Pretty stoked we have him and Scottie. As soon as Barnes levels up and starts instigated offence we will have a really good team.

Patience.

[Pooh_Jeter]

Pat Riley coined the term "The disease of more."

It actually encapsulates what has happened to the Raptors perfectly. Instead of sacrificing for winning players want more personal accolades and accomplishments, endorsements, etc etc.

You already had Siakam quarreling with Nurse last year and I suspect it would be similar if either him or FVV got their roles reduced in any significant way.

[KL78192020]

Didn't Fred win a championship already. What role did he have then?

You can talk all you want about Fred not accepting a lesser role but that opinion isn't based on reality.

What about Fred suggests he's not a team player?

Hey dude, a bunch of people see the currently Raptors different and likewise Fred’s current role. I don’t think there’s much of an appetite atm to continue to debate it though.

Just some things we don’t see the same and that’s ok. RAPS FOREVER!!!

Aren't we on a basketball forum?

That's fine, I am simply asking him to state why he believes in what he believes in. There is simply nothing to suggest that Fred won't accept a lesser role if that time comes. He's won a championship and I'm sure he wants to win another one.

Do you not think Fred is a team player and wants to win?

But you get really angry, overtly emotional and attack other posters when they point out flaws in your argument like how you hope for Scottie to fail so you can prove the tank failed. There is a safe space for you now over in the other thread where all the burner accounts can hang out, because they're not willing to have a civil discussion here. Enjoy!

Warned: Baiting

-Reeko

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Los hopes for all our players to succeed. He is on Team Compete, that's like part of their core values...

[will]

Come on now. Top 10 pick in the 2022 NBA draft to add to this group of players.

Then Masai and Bobby start making moves.

Ultimately, Pascal and Senior won't be it as the go-to guys on the offensive side of the ball. Great contributors with the 'chip run. Not going to happen as the go-to guys. If they accept a lesser role in the next few seasons...aight. If not? Yeah...not gonna cut it.

Once Senior starts to concede a bit more playmaking and ball handling duties, everyone will be better off.

[Badonkadonk]

Los hopes for all our players to succeed. He is on Team Compete, that's like part of their core values...

The antithesis is hoping for players to fail. That's not being on "team anything", that's just being a fan of a team. That's how this thread, and the most delusional supporters of "tanking" (as poorly as they define it), has warped things.

Warned: Baiting

[TRik]

Los hopes for all our players to succeed. He is on Team Compete, that's like part of their core values...

The antithesis is hoping for players to fail. That's not being on "team anything", that's just being a fan of a team. That's how this thread, and the most delusional supporters of "tanking" (as poorly as they define it), has warped things.

Cool. But not many here would agree with that and there is a different thread now if you want to badmouth fans you disagree with.

Cheerz.

[God Squad]

Didn't Fred win a championship already. What role did he have then?

You can talk all you want about Fred not accepting a lesser role but that opinion isn't based on reality.

What about Fred suggests he's not a team player?

Devils Advocate : That was then, this is now. Pascal and Fred came into the season knowing it was "Their" team per say. Which is quite frankly a fact. They're the best players and leaders on the team. I'm not sure Fred would be willing to take a lesser role at this point.

But I could be totally wrong.

[God Squad]

Come on now. Top 10 pick in the 2022 NBA draft to add to this group of players.

Then Masai and Bobby start making moves.

Ultimately, Pascal and Senior won't be it as the go-to guys on the offensive side of the ball. Great contributors with the 'chip run. Not going to happen as the go-to guys. If they accept a lesser role in the next few seasons...aight. If not? Yeah...not gonna cut it.

Once Senior starts to concede a bit more playmaking and ball handling duties, everyone will be better off.

I know you're team Chet. But other than Chet who do you like in the draft?

[will]

Come on now. Top 10 pick in the 2022 NBA draft to add to this group of players.

Then Masai and Bobby start making moves.

Ultimately, Pascal and Senior won't be it as the go-to guys on the offensive side of the ball. Great contributors with the 'chip run. Not going to happen as the go-to guys. If they accept a lesser role in the next few seasons...aight. If not? Yeah...not gonna cut it.

Once Senior starts to concede a bit more playmaking and ball handling duties, everyone will be better off.

I know you're team Chet. But other than Chet who do you like in the draft?

Literally, anyone

This squad needs help. Badly.

[will]

Didn't Fred win a championship already. What role did he have then?

You can talk all you want about Fred not accepting a lesser role but that opinion isn't based on reality.

What about Fred suggests he's not a team player?

Devils Advocate : That was then, this is now. Pascal and Fred came into the season knowing it was "Their" team per say. Which is quite frankly a fact. They're the best players and leaders on the team. I'm not sure Fred would be willing to take a lesser role at this point.

But I could be totally wrong.

They are the best players an an 'okay' squad at best. Doesn't mean that should continue.

Draft and add to the group. Make deals to improve the team for a deep playoff/'chip run.

Sentimentality out the window. Sentimentally is terrible for business.