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Like the subject says. Taking value of contract into account as well, who could secure the greater haul if they both hit the trade market? Could Philly currently get a better player than Fred in a trade?

Until Fred makes an all star and all NBA team...the optics will be that Ben is more valuable than Fred.

In a market like Toronto...unless you show out on a national TV broadcast, you make all star/all NBA or your team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue our players.

Tough to say, given nobody wants to touch a Simmons trade currently with the astronomical asking price.

You want to talk basketball value though, give me Fred.

Simmons has value?

With how the Raptors construct, where we are better off with shooters, I wouldn't trade VanVleet for Simmons alone.

Fred by mile

Morey has same conclusion as you but for different reasons

Indeed wrote:Simmons has value?

With how the Raptors construct, where we are better off with shooters, I wouldn't trade VanVleet for Simmons alone.

Indeed wrote:Simmons has value?

With how the Raptors construct, where we are better off with shooters, I wouldn't trade VanVleet for Simmons alone.

The narrative is that Simmons is an all star/all NBA player despite his obvious flaws. And conventional wisdom and the lazy way to look at things which is how most American media looks at it...is that you trade all star for all star.

Yes...Fred becoming an all star this season is a step closer to equating their perceived value...but the stigma of trading a former #1 pick for an undrafted guy still exists.

mtcan wrote:Until Fred makes an all star and all NBA team...the optics will be that Ben is more valuable than Fred.

In a market like Toronto...unless you show out on a national TV broadcast, you make all star/all NBA or your team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue our players.

I think he is referring to how these guys are valued among NBA executives not fans and media.

I think FVV performing at the level he is playing at, his salary, character and the fact he’s proven he can play in the playoffs is the reason why he would be more valued than Simmons.

Remember, if Simmons had any value he would’ve been dealt already. Don’t think Morey’s plan is to waste Embiid’s prime.

How is this poll even close? Simmons value has absolutely plummeted and FVV is eastern conference player of the month and one of the hottest players in the league right now. Their values are in two entirely different tiers.

Los_29 wrote:

mtcan wrote:Until Fred makes an all star and all NBA team...the optics will be that Ben is more valuable than Fred.

In a market like Toronto...unless you show out on a national TV broadcast, you make all star/all NBA or your team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue our players.

I think he is referring to how these guys are valued among NBA executives not fans and media.

I think FVV performing at the level he is playing at, his salary, character and the fact he’s proven he can play in the playoffs is the reason why he would be more valued than Simmons.

Remember, if Simmons had any value he would’ve been dealt already. Don’t think Morey’s plan is to waste Embiid’s prime.

Fred should be valued higher given all of the above. Whether he is looked upon that way by rival organizations I'm not sure...and that is really what matters when it comes to his value on the open market and trade market.

mtcan wrote:Until Simmons gets at least one vote for FMVP .... the optics will be that Fred is more valuable than Ben.

Until they reach the ECF ... or their team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue the Sixers' players.

FTFY

mtcan wrote:

Los_29 wrote:

mtcan wrote:Until Fred makes an all star and all NBA team...the optics will be that Ben is more valuable than Fred.

In a market like Toronto...unless you show out on a national TV broadcast, you make all star/all NBA or your team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue our players.

I think he is referring to how these guys are valued among NBA executives not fans and media.

I think FVV performing at the level he is playing at, his salary, character and the fact he’s proven he can play in the playoffs is the reason why he would be more valued than Simmons.

Remember, if Simmons had any value he would’ve been dealt already. Don’t think Morey’s plan is to waste Embiid’s prime.

Fred should be valued higher given all of the above. Whether he is looked upon that way by rival organizations I'm not sure...and that is really what matters when it comes to his value on the open market and trade market.

I think he is especially after last year’s playoffs where Simmons single handedly lost them that series. All-star appearances don’t mean much because it’s largely a popularity contest and ALL-NBA teams are usually awarded to players on winning teams. Executives know how much value these guys bring. Therefore I’m quite confident in saying that most executives would value FVV over Simmons.

tecumseh18 wrote:

mtcan wrote:Until Simmons gets at least one vote for FMVP .... the optics will be that Fred is more valuable than Ben.

...until they reach the ECF ... or their team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue the Sixers' players.

FTFY

As a Raptors fan and someone who watches Fred play on a nightly basis...I fully agree.

But looking at how American media has hyped up Simmons since he was at LSU...there is no doubt what his perceived value is.

This is narrative driven. Simmons will get unlimited chances to redeem himself as someone worth putting on a marquee as a legit star no matter how many flaws in his game. Media hasn't turned on him yet despite all the **** he has done.

I can't answer this question becayse i think both players are severely undervalued by most fans.

I have no idea what FOs think.

But my oh my how far we've come in perceptions of fred from only 2 or 3 months ago.

mtcan wrote:

tecumseh18 wrote:

mtcan wrote:Until Simmons gets at least one vote for FMVP .... the optics will be that Fred is more valuable than Ben.

...until they reach the ECF ... or their team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue the Sixers' players.

FTFY

As a Raptors fan and someone who watches Fred play on a nightly basis...I fully agree.

But looking at how American media has hyped up Simmons since he was at LSU...there is no doubt what his perceived value is.

This is narrative driven. Simmons will get unlimited chances to redeem himself as someone worth putting on a marquee as a legit star no matter how many flaws in his game. Media hasn't turned on him yet despite all the **** he has done.

He won’t get unlimited chances to redeem himself because giving him that chance is an awful business decision given his track record.

Once again, media doesn’t matter. Executives don’t make decisions based on what the media thinks.

In the same draft no less

mtcan wrote:

Indeed wrote:Simmons has value?

With how the Raptors construct, where we are better off with shooters, I wouldn't trade VanVleet for Simmons alone.

The narrative is that Simmons is an all star/all NBA player despite his obvious flaws. And conventional wisdom and the lazy way to look at things which is how most American media looks at it...is that you trade all star for all star.

Yes...Fred becoming an all star this season is a step closer to equating their perceived value...but the stigma of trading a former #1 pick for an undrafted guy still exists.

mtcan wrote:Until Fred makes an all star and all NBA team...the optics will be that Ben is more valuable than Fred.

In a market like Toronto...unless you show out on a national TV broadcast, you make all star/all NBA or your team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue our players.

Except no one is offering Philly an all-star, let alone an all-nba level player. If they were a deal would be done, but his value has tanked.

mtcan wrote:

tecumseh18 wrote:

mtcan wrote:Until Simmons gets at least one vote for FMVP .... the optics will be that Fred is more valuable than Ben.

...until they reach the ECF ... or their team is a legit contender...American media will always undervalue the Sixers' players.

FTFY

As a Raptors fan and someone who watches Fred play on a nightly basis...I fully agree.

But looking at how American media has hyped up Simmons since he was at LSU...there is no doubt what his perceived value is.

This is narrative driven. Simmons will get unlimited chances to redeem himself as someone worth putting on a marquee as a legit star no matter how many flaws in his game. Media hasn't turned on him yet despite all the **** he has done.

American Media has done the opposite of hyping him since last year's playoff exit.

Simmons has more value.

Ben Simmons is the most overrated player in the league. I would roll with Fred.