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Dragic

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Re: Dragic 

Post#21 » by Tor_Raps » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:16 am

mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:This is one of the few failed transactions during Masai's tenure. No one's perfect so it is what it is.

I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works.


Read my previous post smart ass lol.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#22 » by mihaic » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:18 am

Tor_Raps wrote:
mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works.


Read above smart ass lol.

I posted it before you smart ass lol.
I was not necessarily referring to you.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#23 » by mdenny » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:19 am

mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:This is one of the few failed transactions during Masai's tenure. No one's perfect so it is what it is.

I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works.



I don't get it either. How much does it cost o the open market for a player like precious. 6 to 8 million per year? We're getting him for 2. Next season its 3. The season after it's 4. By that time he could be worth 15 million.

And we're better off having dragic's salary than not at this point. Almost all of our deadline flexibility is due to Dragic. Even if we opt not to use it for an opportunity....it's better having that option than not.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#24 » by Coco Costanza » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:31 am

I just don't understand why Dragic is unplayable. Especially when just a week ago we were in desperate need of a healthy body to put unto the floor. Dragic seriously couldn't see some minutes? Even if he's not a part of the team's future plans, why not play him and see if he can help out for the time being, and potentially draw the ideas of some trade suitors?
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Re: Dragic 

Post#25 » by GreatWhiteStiff » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:49 am

Perhaps he's unplayable because we agreed not to play him, not because he isn't 'the best option to get us into position in the playoffs at this point in time. He also likely doesn't want to play for us.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#26 » by Econ101 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:24 pm

"Winning" the deal is not just about the trade on paper.
- Lowry was the best player in franchise history. Getting him to Miami shows the league that we treat our players right. That goodwill is not measurable but is noticed by other players.
- I doubt there was much offered since everyone knew Lowry wanted to play for a contender, who are typically over the cap. Therefore this type of trade needed to be made.
- Dragic's salary allows us flexibility if a trade comes up. It may not materialize but you need to have assets to trade.
- Achiuwa, despite all his flaws, has talent and fits well in our defensive system. Hopefully our coaches can teach him to have a decent shot.

The game is not played in a vacuum, sometimes you have to take swings and hope they pan out. I trust our front office.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#27 » by WaltFrazier » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:49 pm

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Perhaps he's unplayable because we agreed not to play him, not because he isn't 'the best option to get us into position in the playoffs at this point in time. He also likely doesn't want to play for us.



After his preseason comments which he apologized for, he reported to camp and reportedly acted professional. But then Nurse made the mistake of starting him WITH Fred the first 4-5 games. That was bound to fail. Then Nurse went full 180 and benched him, all DNPs the rest of the way except one game Fred missed.

What if Nick and the team had a convo with him early, we need a solid backup for Fred, to run the offense off the bench. Play your best and we'll work on the trade you want. We might have the backup PG we need, a little less mileage on Fred, ad a better rotation.

It was like we set him up to fail rather than try a scenario that might have helped both sides. And then if he still played bad, then take him out.
It is what it is, we'll have to see how things play out moving forward.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#28 » by Parataxis » Fri Jan 14, 2022 7:36 pm

Tor_Raps wrote:This is one of the few failed transactions during Masai's tenure. No one's perfect so it is what it is.


Nah, getting back Precious and salary ballast for a FA Lowry was a win, actually.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#29 » by Tha Cynic » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:11 pm

Coco Costanza wrote:I just don't understand why Dragic is unplayable. Especially when just a week ago we were in desperate need of a healthy body to put unto the floor. Dragic seriously couldn't see some minutes? Even if he's not a part of the team's future plans, why not play him and see if he can help out for the time being, and potentially draw the ideas of some trade suitors?


Look at his history. He trash talked the Suns and got traded. Then he tried to trash talk Toronto to force a trade, but Masai didn't bite. When the Mavs visited reports said that you would have thought he was a Mavs player with the way he was talking to everyone.

He was with the Raptors for a while and then was basically told to go away from the team shortly after that. Now you see the guy wearing Heat gear and attend Heat games while being employed by the Raptors.

The team clearly doesn't want this guy near this team because he's a bad character guy.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#30 » by mdenny » Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:32 pm

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:Perhaps he's unplayable because we agreed not to play him, not because he isn't 'the best option to get us into position in the playoffs at this point in time. He also likely doesn't want to play for us.



I think it also has something to do with our defense. It's not a pluggable system.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#31 » by basketball royalty » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:02 pm

mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:
Tor_Raps wrote:This is one of the few failed transactions during Masai's tenure. No one's perfect so it is what it is.

I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works. Not particularly Tor Raps, just saying



Yes, some fans do have a limited understanding considering we’d have a whole bunch of capspace in which ti work with and sign FAs rather than take Dragic at $19 million to get Precious. If we can’t flip Dragic this was indeed a trade far more beneficial to Lowrys wants and needs than ours.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#32 » by Tor_Raps » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:32 pm

basketball royalty wrote:
mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works. Not particularly Tor Raps, just saying



Yes, some fans do have a limited understanding considering we’d have a whole bunch of capspace in which ti work with and sign FAs rather than take Dragic at $19 million to get Precious. If we can’t flip Dragic this was indeed a trade far more beneficial to Lowrys wants and needs than ours.


Ya thats exactly what it was. Masai kind of screwed Lowry from getting a big payday by not trading him at the deadline so he felt obligated to help Lowry even at the expense of our offseason.

I get doing Lowry a solid but the right move would have been to trade him in the previous offseason after he left Ibaka go and then even at the trade deadline.

Our fans will spin it that Masai pulled a rabbit out of his hat for anything he does lol.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#33 » by Psubs » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:33 pm

basketball royalty wrote:
mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works. Not particularly Tor Raps, just saying



Yes, some fans do have a limited understanding considering we’d have a whole bunch of capspace in which ti work with and sign FAs rather than take Dragic at $19 million to get Precious. If we can’t flip Dragic this was indeed a trade far more beneficial to Lowrys wants and needs than ours.


Dragic is essentially a trade exception that they have to actually pay, but I'm fine with trading the expiring for a player with 2 years left.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#34 » by LarSiN » Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:19 pm

basketball royalty wrote:
mihaic wrote:
Snowwy wrote:I'm so confused by this, can you help me out? Do you prefer Precious on the Raptors or nothing on the Raptors?


It seems a lot of fans have limited understanding how it works. Not particularly Tor Raps, just saying



Yes, some fans do have a limited understanding considering we’d have a whole bunch of capspace in which ti work with and sign FAs rather than take Dragic at $19 million to get Precious. If we can’t flip Dragic this was indeed a trade far more beneficial to Lowrys wants and needs than ours.


Yes, but are we really better of in the long run capped out with Dinwiddie and Holmes instead of a giant expiring and Precious on a rookie deal ? I'm not so sure
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Re: Dragic 

Post#35 » by WaltFrazier » Sat Jan 15, 2022 4:55 pm

Whether precious is on a rookie deal or not, he is showing very limited progress and potential. Not much of a return for Kyle if he really was Masai's centerpiece
It is what it is, we'll have to see how things play out moving forward.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#36 » by srhcan » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:11 pm

ItsDanger wrote:I was told that he was a good acquisition at the time. How things change! Sad.

He was a good acquisition but Nurse botched it. Dragic should have been in the starting lineup from start with GTJ coming off bench. This would have allowed to build his trade value. But Nurse wants winning badly, teams future be damned. Nurse is doing the same thing with Barnes burning him out so soon.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#37 » by Psubs » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:16 pm

WaltFrazier wrote:Whether precious is on a rookie deal or not, he is showing very limited progress and potential. Not much of a return for Kyle if he really was Masai's centerpiece


He will get locked in on a reasonable contract around the MLE after his rookie deal like Poeltl and then outperform his contract. :nod:
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Re: Dragic 

Post#38 » by RapsFan008 » Sat Jan 15, 2022 5:50 pm

Tha Cynic wrote:
Coco Costanza wrote:I just don't understand why Dragic is unplayable. Especially when just a week ago we were in desperate need of a healthy body to put unto the floor. Dragic seriously couldn't see some minutes? Even if he's not a part of the team's future plans, why not play him and see if he can help out for the time being, and potentially draw the ideas of some trade suitors?


Look at his history. He trash talked the Suns and got traded. Then he tried to trash talk Toronto to force a trade, but Masai didn't bite. When the Mavs visited reports said that you would have thought he was a Mavs player with the way he was talking to everyone.

He was with the Raptors for a while and then was basically told to go away from the team shortly after that. Now you see the guy wearing Heat gear and attend Heat games while being employed by the Raptors.

The team clearly doesn't want this guy near this team because he's a bad character guy.


It could be some of that, but still pretty bizarre because if we are trying to win games he's still better than the rest of our bench. We have one of the worst benches in the entire league.

My take is the FO isn't prioritizing winning this season and/or they want to keep him healthy for a potential trade.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#39 » by Dalek » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:08 pm

Econ101 wrote:"Winning" the deal is not just about the trade on paper.
- Lowry was the best player in franchise history. Getting him to Miami shows the league that we treat our players right. That goodwill is not measurable but is noticed by other players.
- I doubt there was much offered since everyone knew Lowry wanted to play for a contender, who are typically over the cap. Therefore this type of trade needed to be made.
- Dragic's salary allows us flexibility if a trade comes up. It may not materialize but you need to have assets to trade.
- Achiuwa, despite all his flaws, has talent and fits well in our defensive system. Hopefully our coaches can teach him to have a decent shot.

The game is not played in a vacuum, sometimes you have to take swings and hope they pan out. I trust our front office.


This is a dangerous form of rationality. It sounds like Colangelo level gm'ing. Occassionally the FO makes blunders, misjudges the market, and flubs on prospects and it just so happened they hit the trifecta with this one.

Lowry would have went to Miami regardless (maybe he would have made less) and helping a rival get the player they tampered for is just weak. What did it show other players when we dumped Demar for a title chase?

Dragic was supposed to never be a Raptor but all the deals dried up. Now instead of playing him and upping his value we bench him and hope someone wants an $18m guy who hasn't played in months.

Achuiwa is a nothing player at this stage. Birch got hurt and he still only played 24 minutes because no one trusts the guy. He takes dumb soul draining shots and pretty much can only rebound and gamble for steals. Literally every time he touches the ball you can feel Jack holding his breath waiting for a turnover.

If we didn't sign and trade Lowry or sign Birch or waited to sign Trent Jr after signing a few real NBA players we would be in much better shape. I said it at the beginning that if we believe in this core invest in a true bench.

This FO is such a mess. We went from hey this a rebuild season to playing Pascal/FVV/OG 40 minutes to chase wins. What is this team doing at this stage developing or going for 8th?

What is crazy to me is that Masai gets re-signed and joins the Board and now we cannot be a tax paying team. You'd think he would be willing to spend with his new power.
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Re: Dragic 

Post#40 » by LoveMyRaps » Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:14 pm

Lost a ton of respect for this dude.

He could've helped this team a lot but instead chose to be a sissy and not suit up for us.

Loser.
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