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Should we trade FRP for help

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Should we trade FRP for help?

YES trade our 2023+ future FRP for help
10
12%
YES trade our 2022 FRP for help
8
10%
NO trading FRP
66
79%
 
Total votes: 84

Appostis
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#81 » by Appostis » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:09 am

Madhouse wrote:
Appostis wrote:No on principal, but really depending on what were getting.

Highly doubtful it be worth it. Team should be sellers tbh


who would you sell outside of Boucher, Dragic etc.


That's it tbh.
Unless it's a highly protected future first, team should let things be.

They'll probably be in the lottery again soon.
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#82 » by Madhouse » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:12 am

Appostis wrote:
Madhouse wrote:
Appostis wrote:No on principal, but really depending on what were getting.

Highly doubtful it be worth it. Team should be sellers tbh


who would you sell outside of Boucher, Dragic etc.


That's it tbh.
Unless it's a highly protected future first, team should let things be.

They'll probably be in the lottery again soon.


I agree, I only see minor moves trading away expiring contracts.
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#83 » by PhilBlackson » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:34 am

WaltFrazier wrote:I'm all for getting an immediate help piece, not a quick fix but a young vet with upside. First choice would be to move Dragic and Boucher for that player, not FRP


As much as I wish it that would work, that's not even remotely realistic lol

1. No one is giving us a young vet with UPSIDE (at that) for essentially just a couple of expirings
2. You're talking about TWENTY SIX MILLION DOLLARS IN ANNUAL SALARY, whatever said "young vet" would be a VERY well paid player who clearly the franchise placed a ton of faith in at one point. For perspective some players who would fit that description yet still not paid that amount ie/ FVV, Sabonis, Turner, Aaron Gordon etc....not franchise talents but nonetheless you're not getting them for cap relief lol it's gonna cost. If you're lucky MAYBE you could get just an actual vet like Eric Gordon but I still think at minimum they'd want a couple of 2nds and with the year he's having I expect a team like CLE to make a run at him too, if they can't get LeVert
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#84 » by Ell Curry » Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:00 am

I think the question might be "should we trade 2 FRP or none" because getting a guy young enough to go forward with our core who is actually good (Reddish's on/offs are worse than Baynes' last year for context) like Myles Turner will probably require 2 firsts.

The thing we have no idea about is if Masai sees this draft as a good opportunity because Covid affected other people's evaluating process or he thinks it's low quality.

End of the day, we have 5 core players (our current starting lineup) and the draft pick will be seen as a good chance to get a 6th considering Masai's draft track record, but if there's someone available under 25 they like then it becomes available. And it's possible the front office thinks so highly of one of Banton, Precious or even Champagnie that they think they can join them, though probably those are 8th or 9th guys and we'll look to eventually trade for a rotation guy if this core is a solid playoff one and the right guy becomes available.

We could have gotten Reddish with Boucher + our first, but we didn't, probably because he thinks he should have the ball and not be a 3 and D guy but he doesn't have the handles or body control to drive to the hoop or finish in mid-range and he doesn't always try on D.

It wouldn't shock me if we went the other way with so few sellers because of the play-in and we trade Boucher and trade Dragic to take on a bad contract for next year (Knicks have a slew, Clippers have some) from a team wanting immediate cap space and trying to get some high 2nds for those pieces, then we can deal them and the 2023 expirings next year for a rotation guy.
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#85 » by Appostis » Fri Jan 14, 2022 8:02 am

The team is not good enough to make win now moves.
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#86 » by mdenny » Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:15 am

Ell Curry wrote:I think the question might be "should we trade 2 FRP or none" because getting a guy young enough to go forward with our core who is actually good (Reddish's on/offs are worse than Baynes' last year for context) like Myles Turner will probably require 2 firsts.

The thing we have no idea about is if Masai sees this draft as a good opportunity because Covid affected other people's evaluating process or he thinks it's low quality.

End of the day, we have 5 core players (our current starting lineup) and the draft pick will be seen as a good chance to get a 6th considering Masai's draft track record, but if there's someone available under 25 they like then it becomes available. And it's possible the front office thinks so highly of one of Banton, Precious or even Champagnie that they think they can join them, though probably those are 8th or 9th guys and we'll look to eventually trade for a rotation guy if this core is a solid playoff one and the right guy becomes available.

We could have gotten Reddish with Boucher + our first, but we didn't, probably because he thinks he should have the ball and not be a 3 and D guy but he doesn't have the handles or body control to drive to the hoop or finish in mid-range and he doesn't always try on D.

It wouldn't shock me if we went the other way with so few sellers because of the play-in and we trade Boucher and trade Dragic to take on a bad contract for next year (Knicks have a slew, Clippers have some) from a team wanting immediate cap space and trying to get some high 2nds for those pieces, then we can deal them and the 2023 expirings next year for a rotation guy.


For me....i think it's more like 3 FRP or none.

Masai will not sacrifice a FRP for the bench. The only way it makes sense is using dragic's salary to buy a near allstar level player. And it will not be a center.

If we added a near allstar guard to our current starting 5 we would be dangerous. And we would geto more dangerous next year.

I think our FO is happy with precious/birch/boucher off our bench. If we want to make a push this year...it will be a guard. A player who cannot be played off the floor in a 7 game series.

To get that it's at least 2 but likely 3 FRPs.

I HAVE AN IDEA!
.
Beal go to philly
Simmons comes to toronto

Wizards get 4 FRPs/4 swaps and dragic/boucher/danny green/etc.

2 FRPs from both toronto and philly.
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#87 » by Ell Curry » Fri Jan 14, 2022 12:05 pm

mdenny wrote:For me....i think it's more like 3 FRP or none.

Masai will not sacrifice a FRP for the bench. The only way it makes sense is using dragic's salary to buy a near allstar level player. And it will not be a center.

If we added a near allstar guard to our current starting 5 we would be dangerous. And we would geto more dangerous next year.

I think our FO is happy with precious/birch/boucher off our bench. If we want to make a push this year...it will be a guard. A player who cannot be played off the floor in a 7 game series.

To get that it's at least 2 but likely 3 FRPs.

I HAVE AN IDEA!
.
Beal go to philly
Simmons comes to toronto

Wizards get 4 FRPs/4 swaps and dragic/boucher/danny green/etc.

2 FRPs from both toronto and philly.


I think the overlap between Simmons, Barnes and Siakam is just too much, and I don't see Masai trading 3 firsts for a player with his baggage who has gotten worse. I still like Simmons, but I think he needs the perfect fit around him and that's probably not us unless he's willing to play centre (which I don't think he is).
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#88 » by Rapsfan07 » Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:04 pm

I like the idea of adding Levert and Turner but I don't think we have what it takes to make a deal work.

We desperately need some help at C and Turner is nice but he's not that good guys. Don't get me wrong, I like him but other than his blocks, he's really quite pedestrian at everything else. Still, the fact that he can defend the rim and hit the 3 a bit will make him valuable. As for Levert, I've always thought he was a quality starting shooting guard. He's had some health issues and isn't a prolific 3pt shooter but he does a little of everything out there.

The bigger issue is they both only have one guaranteed year left on their deals. This means we'd be looking at having to re-up Levert, Turner and Vanvleet in the same summer, as I expect Vanvleet to opt out and try to cash in on a bigger deal. So we really have to ask ourselves two questions:

a) Is a core of Vanvleet, Levert, OG, Siakam, Turner, Barnes etc good enough to win us a championship?
b) do we believe that these pieces can eventually be flipped for other pieces that can win us a championship?

Because we're looking at being taxpayers if we manage to keep everyone.

All that said, I really wouldn't be offering more than some combination of Dragic, Boucher, Trent Jr and a FRP.
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Re: Should we trade FRP for help 

Post#89 » by Madhouse » Fri Jan 14, 2022 5:56 pm

Rapsfan07 wrote:I like the idea of adding Levert and Turner but I don't think we have what it takes to make a deal work.

We desperately need some help at C and Turner is nice but he's not that good guys. Don't get me wrong, I like him but other than his blocks, he's really quite pedestrian at everything else. Still, the fact that he can defend the rim and hit the 3 a bit will make him valuable. As for Levert, I've always thought he was a quality starting shooting guard. He's had some health issues and isn't a prolific 3pt shooter but he does a little of everything out there.

The bigger issue is they both only have one guaranteed year left on their deals. This means we'd be looking at having to re-up Levert, Turner and Vanvleet in the same summer, as I expect Vanvleet to opt out and try to cash in on a bigger deal. So we really have to ask ourselves two questions:

a) Is a core of Vanvleet, Levert, OG, Siakam, Turner, Barnes etc good enough to win us a championship?
b) do we believe that these pieces can eventually be flipped for other pieces that can win us a championship?

Because we're looking at being taxpayers if we manage to keep everyone.

All that said, I really wouldn't be offering more than some combination of Dragic, Boucher, Trent Jr and a FRP.


This would be really the thought behind it. Expirings, Gary and a first. They could get a younger player and a first and a start a serious rebuild. Then they can trade Sabonis at the draft and start the clock. Gary should have more value than LeVert and Turner is not really worth more than a mid first round pick imo.

If they are hoping for 3-4 first rounders for that package, they are fooling themselves and might not be able to trade anyone and not really accomplish anything.

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