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Turner is vastly overrated... would not trade any of our top 5 for him.

Boucher and a protected 1st.. throw in Flynn max.

redeye514 wrote:Indy wants 2 firsts which makes sense, if Indy. I can see a desperate team needing to make a splash paying it, just not us.

Having said that, I do believe we would have a protected first + Flynn (a relative first) on the table + Dragic cap filler to third team. So I don’t think our offer would be that far off… we are at least in the running… Indy is prob just seeing if they can do better than Flynn + Late first pick, hence the ‘news leak’ today of Indy wanting 2 x #1’s. If they can get it from someone else, all the power to them.. if not, I can see them taking our deal.

Rough outline (not saying I want this):

TOR: Turner
IND: THT + LAL 1st + TOR 1st (ofc both teams would want/try to make them 2nds instead)
LAL: GT Jr

If people are looking for a comparable trade in the past,just look at when we traded for Ibaka, who has the exact same skill set as Turner. Ibaka cost us a 1st Round pick and Ross at the time, but also take into consideration Ibakas stock had gone down while playing in Orlando so he was a bit cheaper than he should have been. Also take into consideration Stretch bigs are now more valuable than ever. Like I said repeatedly, the time to have got Turner was 1-2 years ago, but now it will be harder... using Ibaka's trade as a baseline, it would cost a pick and Trent, but with how things are now in the league, I think that cost would be increased to a better player than Trent or another pick. So while we may scoff at 2 first rounders that Indy wants, it really isnt that far off from what we paid for Ibaka. Would I pay 2 FRPs? Prob not, but if you want Turner at this point you will definitely have to give up a good player and a pick.

Achiuwa and Flynn are both very recent 1st rounders.

Players like Myles Turner at his age are rare in this league. I'm fine with giving up a FRP

pilkoids wrote:Players like Myles Turner at his age are rare in this league. I'm fine with giving up a FRP

They want 2.

Turner is a good shot blocker but is he a good defender? Shot blocking is only one aspect of defence. He is a terrible rebounder for a guy his height and position. Defensive rebounding is an aspect of defence.

He has never made an all-NBA defence. He has never been nominated for DPOY. He has never been an all star.

Expecting 2 first round picks for this guy is delusional.

NeoDragonKnight wrote:If people are looking for a comparable trade in the past,just look at when we traded for Ibaka, who has the exact same skill set as Turner. Ibaka cost us a 1st Round pick and Ross at the time, but also take into consideration Ibakas stock had gone down while playing in Orlando so he was a bit cheaper than he should have been. Also take into consideration Stretch bigs are now more valuable than ever. Like I said repeatedly, the time to have got Turner was 1-2 years ago, but now it will be harder... using Ibaka's trade as a baseline, it would cost a pick and Trent, but with how things are now in the league, I think that cost would be increased to a better player than Trent or another pick. So while we may scoff at 2 first rounders that Indy wants, it really isnt that far off from what we paid for Ibaka. Would I pay 2 FRPs? Prob not, but if you want Turner at this point you will definitely have to give up a good player and a pick.

Nah, centres are less important than they were in 2017. Has Embiid even sniffed an ECF? Guys like Trent Jr. are much more important in today's game. That's why the Suns refused to overpay Ayton. And given the Raps lack of quality depth, it makes no sense to trade a good player (like GTJ) for another good player.

But it's all moot anyway, because the Pacers and Raptors are both pretty close to the tax. So it can't be a 2 for 1 or 3 for 2 type deal. And I can't seem to construct one that works in the trade checker.

mtcan wrote:Turner is a good shot blocker but is he a good defender? Shot blocking is only one aspect of defence. He is a terrible rebounder for a guy his height and position. Defensive rebounding is an aspect of defence.

He has never made an all-NBA defence. He has never been nominated for DPOY. He has never been an all star.

Expecting 2 first round picks for this guy is delusional.

Turner has a low rebound rate because Sabonis sucks up all the boards. When Sabonis is out and Turner gets to actually play C, he averages 10 boards/game.

redeye514 wrote:Indy wants 2 firsts which makes sense, if Indy. I can see a desperate team needing to make a splash paying it, just not us.

Having said that, I do believe we would have a protected first + Flynn (a relative first) on the table + Dragic cap filler to third team. So I don’t think our offer would be that far off… we are at least in the running… Indy is prob just seeing if they can do better than Flynn + Late first pick, hence the ‘news leak’ today of Indy wanting 2 x #1’s. If they can get it from someone else, all the power to them.. if not, I can see them taking our deal.

They are looking for a young player with upside, so I am not sure Flynn who is projected to be a backup PG can do this.

I hope we trade Boucher for a low 1st, and flip that to Pacers. However, I don't think we are in a rush. If Pacers wants to trade Turner now, maybe we do it, otherwise, might as well wait until off season.

We’re 11th in defence currently. Turner would boost us up to a comfortable top 10 defence. Our offence would get a significant boost, currently 14th.

Top 10 defence/offence instantly means legitimate playoff team with a super young core.

Do the trade and worry about the money later.

AkelaLoneWolf wrote:

brownbobcat wrote:

TorontoRapsFan wrote:I feel like you're over estimating Turner's value. Who was the last starting C traded for any value return? There is Vuc, and his value was based on his offensive game, and I can't think of anyone else going back to JV.

When's the last time a 3+D shooting guard got traded for any significant value? If you're out there looking for a rim-protector that can space the floor, there aren't too many options available aside from Turner. He's not a great player, but he is a rare one.

Honestly Mo Bamba. His work ethic has been called into question but he's producing about the same stats with half of Turners salary and in FA, he's doubtful to get the 18M the Turner is getting right now.

Bamba wouldn't be a bad bet for the future, but I seriously doubt any contender would feel comfortable slotting him in for heavy minutes during the playoffs. His shooting has been awful after a hot start.

For a team like Toronto, they could do worse.

PhilBlackson wrote:

redeye514 wrote:Indy wants 2 firsts which makes sense, if Indy. I can see a desperate team needing to make a splash paying it, just not us.

Having said that, I do believe we would have a protected first + Flynn (a relative first) on the table + Dragic cap filler to third team. So I don’t think our offer would be that far off… we are at least in the running… Indy is prob just seeing if they can do better than Flynn + Late first pick, hence the ‘news leak’ today of Indy wanting 2 x #1’s. If they can get it from someone else, all the power to them.. if not, I can see them taking our deal.

Rough outline (not saying I want this):

TOR: Turner
IND: THT + LAL 1st + TOR 1st (ofc both teams would want/try to make them 2nds instead)
LAL: GT Jr

While I agree that if the Raps were willing to part with GTJ, that it could get us a Turner caliber player (either directly with Indy or by way of a third team, as you outlined). I just don’t think the Raps would part with GTJ that easily right now - his shot creation, his on ball defence, ability to get deflections and multi year relatively cap friendly contract is wayyy to valuable for us. If GTJ is a part of any deal, I think it would be for more of a bonafide all star type player.

I think our realistic “package” being shopped on the trade market is simply Flynn, Dragic 3rd team scraps, and Boucher.. so, in other words, not much. maybe we offer a protected #1 for the right player (ie Turner or Poetle), but definitely not 2 #1’s.

redeye514 wrote:

PhilBlackson wrote:

redeye514 wrote:Indy wants 2 firsts which makes sense, if Indy. I can see a desperate team needing to make a splash paying it, just not us.

Having said that, I do believe we would have a protected first + Flynn (a relative first) on the table + Dragic cap filler to third team. So I don’t think our offer would be that far off… we are at least in the running… Indy is prob just seeing if they can do better than Flynn + Late first pick, hence the ‘news leak’ today of Indy wanting 2 x #1’s. If they can get it from someone else, all the power to them.. if not, I can see them taking our deal.

Rough outline (not saying I want this):

TOR: Turner
IND: THT + LAL 1st + TOR 1st (ofc both teams would want/try to make them 2nds instead)
LAL: GT Jr

While I agree that if the Raps were willing to part with GTJ, that it could get us a Turner caliber player (either directly with Indy or by way of a third team, as you outlined). I just don’t think the Raps would part with GTJ that easily right now - his shot creation, his on ball defence, ability to get deflections and multi year relatively cap friendly contract is wayyy to valuable for us. If GTJ is a part of any deal, I think it would be for more of a bonafide all star type player.

I think our realistic “package” being shopped on the trade market is simply Flynn, Dragic 3rd team scraps, and Boucher.. so, in other words, not much. maybe we offer a protected #1 for the right player (ie Turner or Poetle), but definitely not 2 #1’s.

Well I'll tell you right now Boucher, Flynn, Goran is not netting Turner...not even Sabonis. I give an outside chance to get LeVert for that and I wouldn't even wanna do a first for Yak.

Indeed wrote:

redeye514 wrote:Indy wants 2 firsts which makes sense, if Indy. I can see a desperate team needing to make a splash paying it, just not us.

Having said that, I do believe we would have a protected first + Flynn (a relative first) on the table + Dragic cap filler to third team. So I don’t think our offer would be that far off… we are at least in the running… Indy is prob just seeing if they can do better than Flynn + Late first pick, hence the ‘news leak’ today of Indy wanting 2 x #1’s. If they can get it from someone else, all the power to them.. if not, I can see them taking our deal.

They are looking for a young player with upside, so I am not sure Flynn who is projected to be a backup PG can do this.

I hope we trade Boucher for a low 1st, and flip that to Pacers. However, I don't think we are in a rush. If Pacers wants to trade Turner now, maybe we do it, otherwise, might as well wait until off season.

Agreed. I def think Indy wants something better than our offer of Flynn + Protected #1 + whatever Boucher / Dragic would from a third team. But if Flynn is all the trade market offers, then maybe they pull the trigger and Masai scores another one. But again, I agree that Indy def wants a player better than Flynn.. . But Who knows, maybe Indy actually likes Flynn / sees something in him??

PhilBlackson wrote:

redeye514 wrote:Indy wants 2 firsts which makes sense, if Indy. I can see a desperate team needing to make a splash paying it, just not us.

Having said that, I do believe we would have a protected first + Flynn (a relative first) on the table + Dragic cap filler to third team. So I don’t think our offer would be that far off… we are at least in the running… Indy is prob just seeing if they can do better than Flynn + Late first pick, hence the ‘news leak’ today of Indy wanting 2 x #1’s. If they can get it from someone else, all the power to them.. if not, I can see them taking our deal.

Rough outline (not saying I want this):

TOR: Turner
IND: THT + LAL 1st + TOR 1st (ofc both teams would want/try to make them 2nds instead)
LAL: GT Jr

So we give a starter and a First...yeah...no thanks.

you have to make a trade that doesn't involve FVV, Trent, OG, Barnes, Siakam.....otherwise you aren't making the team any better.

brownbobcat wrote:

AkelaLoneWolf wrote:

brownbobcat wrote:When's the last time a 3+D shooting guard got traded for any significant value? If you're out there looking for a rim-protector that can space the floor, there aren't too many options available aside from Turner. He's not a great player, but he is a rare one.

Honestly Mo Bamba. His work ethic has been called into question but he's producing about the same stats with half of Turners salary and in FA, he's doubtful to get the 18M the Turner is getting right now.

Bamba wouldn't be a bad bet for the future, but I seriously doubt any contender would feel comfortable slotting him in for heavy minutes during the playoffs. His shooting has been awful after a hot start.

For a team like Toronto, they could do worse.

Depends on how confident raptors are in their developmental abilities. We're betting on a whole bunch of players improving their shooting including barnes, achiuwa, flynn, banton and potentially bamba.
His presumptive reasonable salary won't cripple future moves for this team. Turner is sure to demand more than 18M after his contract runs out.

pilkoids wrote:Players like Myles Turner at his age are rare in this league. I'm fine with giving up a FRP

For a inconsistent, injury prone player? I’ll keep my faith in Masai not to do such a thing.

SFour wrote:you have to make a trade that doesn't involve FVV, Trent, OG, Barnes, Siakam.....otherwise you aren't making the team any better.

Bang on!