[Windhorst] Pascal Siakam Potentially Could Be Available For The Right Trade

[720]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

When did anyone even say it would be a bad idea to trade for SGA? And why do you have to bring FVV "stans" into everything? Pointing out the fact that SGA isn't a great shooter doesn't mean people are rationalizing not trading for SGA.

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If you ask 99 percent of this league if they would do a 4 team trade where the Raptors lose Fred Vanvleet, Gary Trent, plus maybe a 1st and gain Shai Gilgeous-Alexander they would all say yes. It's like, literally one of the easiest decisions a GM could make.

But alas, Fred fanboys have to bring up Shai's inconsistent three point shooting as if that's some deterrent lol (knowing Shai is young as hell, shown promise in that department, and that we have a great shot development team). It's hilarious.

[pingpongrac]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

When did anyone even say it would be a bad idea to trade for SGA? And why do you have to bring FVV "stans" into everything? Pointing out the fact that SGA isn't a great shooter doesn't mean people are rationalizing not trading for SGA.

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If you ask 99 percent of this league if they would do a 4 team trade where the Raptors lose Fred Vanvleet, Gary Trent, plus maybe a 1st and gain Shai Gilgeous-Alexander they would all say yes. It's like, literally one of the easiest decisions a GM could make.

But alas, Fred fanboys have to bring up Shai's inconsistent three point shooting as if that's some deterrent lol (knowing Shai is young as hell, shown promise in that department, and that we have a great shot development team). It's hilarious.

What's hilarious is you are always trying to make these ridiculous connections. Just because people are bringing up the fact that spacing would be a serious issue doesn't mean they wouldn't consider SGA. 99% (or more) of Raptors fans would make that trade too if all it took was FVV+GTJ and a future 1st.

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[Los_29]

It's incredible how childish this board can be.

Stating concerns about someone's playmaking, defense and shooting ability make us Fred Stans now.

[Johnny Bball]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

You think this is because people don't want to trade FVV? FVV is eventually gone. This is about some people having no idea of the trade value of players or being in love with the mystery box. You can't even decide if he's a star or just possibly a star, because you know what the responses will be if you don't weasel clause it.

You are out of you mind if you think that max extension for SGA is great value right now. And try and deflect all you want, but all of a sudden fit doesn't matter, its just players? The guy doesn't fit here at all until he could fix a few things. And this team is very much concerned about fit, which is why you don't seemingly understand who they trade for or draft.

And there is zero reason for a rebuilding OKC to trade him for an older player who's contract is coming up. The entire idea is just a complete divergence from reality on both sides fo the trade, but ...yeah...derp, its Fred stans. The only stans I see are the ones in love with a home town boy.

[Johnny Bball]

Young as hell? Lol. He's the same age as Trent but Trent is apparently inconsistent shooting and sucks for it, but its completely fine for a player just learning? And there's worry about Trent's contract but the other guy just got maxed and isn't playing up to it. The mental gymnastics people go through here as funny as hell.

[wegotthabeet]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

Exactly. This hypothetical lineup of SGA - OG - Scottie - Pascal - Precious would have 4 players under 25, so it's not like they couldn't improve moving forward. They could always move one of them in the future if the fit isn't right. Talent accumulation is the important thing here. Also teams should look to move a player when their stock/value is at it's highest unless said player is top 5/10 in the league.

[720]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

Exactly. This hypothetical lineup of SGA - OG - Scottie - Pascal - Precious would have 4 players under 25, so it's not like they couldn't improve moving forward. They could always move one of them in the future if the fit isn't right. Talent accumulation is the important thing here. Also teams should look to move a player when their stock/value is at it's highest unless said player is top 5/10 in the league.

No no but what about our shooting though!?/s

[Los_29]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

Exactly. This hypothetical lineup of SGA - OG - Scottie - Pascal - Precious would have 4 players under 25, so it's not like they couldn't improve moving forward. They could always move one of them in the future if the fit isn't right. Talent accumulation is the important thing here. Also teams should look to move a player when their stock/value is at it's highest unless said player is top 5/10 in the league.

But you'd be paying SGA 35 million a year for the next 5 years. SGA isn't what you think he is and may never be what you want him to be. You don't trade considerable assets for a player just because he's from Toronto. If SGA wasn't from here no one would be discussing him.

If you're going to give up GTJ, Fred and picks you aim A LOT higher because those GM's who don't end up losing their jobs.

[brownbobcat]

But you'd be paying SGA 35 million a year for the next 5 years. SGA isn't what you think he is and may never be what you want him to be. You don't trade considerable assets for a player just because he's from Toronto. If SGA wasn't from here no one would be discussing him.

If you're going to give up GTJ, Fred and picks you aim A LOT higher because those GM's who don't end up losing their jobs.

They're paying Fred & GTJ $35M now and that number is going up significantly after next year. In that lens, SGA locked at $35M is decent and not many teams out there who wouldn't give him the money. Now, could Toronto get something better? Debatable. Personally, I think he's got a ton of potential and could become a multiple-time All Star.

[wegotthabeet]

You build your team around stars. If you can get the star/s, get them. Then you worry about adding the other things that are missing (shooting, rebounding, etc) and try and add it. What's important is getting the high ceiling player, if one becomes available like wegotthabeet's trade proposal then you do it. Just because you Fred Stans don't wanna trade your idol doesn't mean you have to start rationalizing why trading for a young and upcoming star like Shai is a bad idea.

Exactly. This hypothetical lineup of SGA - OG - Scottie - Pascal - Precious would have 4 players under 25, so it's not like they couldn't improve moving forward. They could always move one of them in the future if the fit isn't right. Talent accumulation is the important thing here. Also teams should look to move a player when their stock/value is at it's highest unless said player is top 5/10 in the league.

But you'd be paying SGA 35 million a year for the next 5 years. SGA isn't what you think he is and may never be what you want him to be. You don't trade considerable assets for a player just because he's from Toronto. If SGA wasn't from here no one would be discussing him.

If you're going to give up GTJ, Fred and picks you aim A LOT higher because those GM's who don't end up losing their jobs.

We just have different opinions of his (SGA's) trade value. That's what makes for an interesting debate. You think FVV + GTJ + FFRP is an overpay, I think it's pretty close, but maybe a little light. To me his value has fallen slightly from last summer and I see that as a buy opportunity. Do you think Fred on a $30+ million/year extension increases his future trade value? I don't hence why I'd be looking to move him now. To me this is his peak trade value, but I could be wrong if he continues to make all-star appearances and continues to improve into his 30s. Admittedly I have an affinity for big guards. It's not important to me that he's from GTHA, more that he's 6'6, young and can create his own offence. I'd also rather pay SGA $35 million than Fred, Trent & a pick $55+ million.

[Los_29]

Exactly. This hypothetical lineup of SGA - OG - Scottie - Pascal - Precious would have 4 players under 25, so it's not like they couldn't improve moving forward. They could always move one of them in the future if the fit isn't right. Talent accumulation is the important thing here. Also teams should look to move a player when their stock/value is at it's highest unless said player is top 5/10 in the league.

But you'd be paying SGA 35 million a year for the next 5 years. SGA isn't what you think he is and may never be what you want him to be. You don't trade considerable assets for a player just because he's from Toronto. If SGA wasn't from here no one would be discussing him.

If you're going to give up GTJ, Fred and picks you aim A LOT higher because those GM's who don't end up losing their jobs.

We just have different opinions of his (SGA's) trade value. That's what makes for an interesting debate. You think FVV + GTJ + FFRP is an overpay, I think it's pretty close, but maybe a little light. To me his value has fallen slightly from last summer and I see that as a buy opportunity. Do you think Fred on a $30+ million/year extension increases his future trade value? I don't hence why I'd be looking to move him now. To me this is his peak trade value, but I could be wrong if he continues to make all-star appearances and continues to improve into his 30s. Admittedly I have an affinity for big guards. It's not important to me that he's from GTHA, more that he's 6'6, young and can create his own offence. I'd also rather pay SGA $35 million than Fred, Trent & a pick $55+ million.

That big guard is an average defender, is a slightly above average passer (worse than Fred) and I really don’t know how good of a shooter he really is given the variance of his three point shooting.

My thinking is you wait until you find a better deal where you get a player that you know can move the needle.

What we do know about this Raptors team is they’d rather stand pat than make deals for the sake of making deals. Doing something like this is making a deal for the sake of making a deal.

[Steelo Green]

When did anyone even say it would be a bad idea to trade for SGA? And why do you have to bring FVV "stans" into everything? Pointing out the fact that SGA isn't a great shooter doesn't mean people are rationalizing not trading for SGA.

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If you ask 99 percent of this league if they would do a 4 team trade where the Raptors lose Fred Vanvleet, Gary Trent, plus maybe a 1st and gain Shai Gilgeous-Alexander they would all say yes. It's like, literally one of the easiest decisions a GM could make.

But alas, Fred fanboys have to bring up Shai's inconsistent three point shooting as if that's some deterrent lol (knowing Shai is young as hell, shown promise in that department, and that we have a great shot development team). It's hilarious.

What's hilarious is you are always trying to make these ridiculous connections. Just because people are bringing up the fact that spacing would be a serious issue doesn't mean they wouldn't consider SGA. 99% (or more) of Raptors fans would make that trade too if all it took was FVV+GTJ and a future 1st.

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OKC will never trade Shai for OG + Trent

Just lol.

We would never offer both.

Don’t be so sure

[720]

When did anyone even say it would be a bad idea to trade for SGA? And why do you have to bring FVV "stans" into everything? Pointing out the fact that SGA isn't a great shooter doesn't mean people are rationalizing not trading for SGA.

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If you ask 99 percent of this league if they would do a 4 team trade where the Raptors lose Fred Vanvleet, Gary Trent, plus maybe a 1st and gain Shai Gilgeous-Alexander they would all say yes. It's like, literally one of the easiest decisions a GM could make.

But alas, Fred fanboys have to bring up Shai's inconsistent three point shooting as if that's some deterrent lol (knowing Shai is young as hell, shown promise in that department, and that we have a great shot development team). It's hilarious.

What's hilarious is you are always trying to make these ridiculous connections. Just because people are bringing up the fact that spacing would be a serious issue doesn't mean they wouldn't consider SGA. 99% (or more) of Raptors fans would make that trade too if all it took was FVV+GTJ and a future 1st.

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Yes, just a total coincidence that the FVV fanboys are the ones going 'oh but shooting!' when the hypothetical trade involves us getting back an amazing young player that's only 23 years old putting up 25, 6, 5, 1, 1, a game. Don't worry, your idol Fred isn't going anywhere guys. He'll be back to get exposed as a top 2 option in the playoffs again, probably (hopefully not).

[Los_29]

If you ask 99 percent of this league if they would do a 4 team trade where the Raptors lose Fred Vanvleet, Gary Trent, plus maybe a 1st and gain Shai Gilgeous-Alexander they would all say yes. It's like, literally one of the easiest decisions a GM could make.

But alas, Fred fanboys have to bring up Shai's inconsistent three point shooting as if that's some deterrent lol (knowing Shai is young as hell, shown promise in that department, and that we have a great shot development team). It's hilarious.

What's hilarious is you are always trying to make these ridiculous connections. Just because people are bringing up the fact that spacing would be a serious issue doesn't mean they wouldn't consider SGA. 99% (or more) of Raptors fans would make that trade too if all it took was FVV+GTJ and a future 1st.

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Yes, just a total coincidence that the FVV fanboys are the ones going 'oh but shooting!' when the hypothetical trade involves us getting back an amazing young player that's only 23 years old putting up 25, 6, 5, 1, 1, a game. Don't worry, your idol Fred isn't going anywhere guys. He'll be back to get exposed as a top 2 option in the playoffs again, probably (hopefully not).

[pingpongrac]

If you ask 99 percent of this league if they would do a 4 team trade where the Raptors lose Fred Vanvleet, Gary Trent, plus maybe a 1st and gain Shai Gilgeous-Alexander they would all say yes. It's like, literally one of the easiest decisions a GM could make.

But alas, Fred fanboys have to bring up Shai's inconsistent three point shooting as if that's some deterrent lol (knowing Shai is young as hell, shown promise in that department, and that we have a great shot development team). It's hilarious.

What's hilarious is you are always trying to make these ridiculous connections. Just because people are bringing up the fact that spacing would be a serious issue doesn't mean they wouldn't consider SGA. 99% (or more) of Raptors fans would make that trade too if all it took was FVV+GTJ and a future 1st.

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OKC will never trade Shai for OG + Trent

Just lol.

We would never offer both.

Don’t be so sure

I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but come on...you were even the OP.

OG+GTJ =/= GTJ+FVV

[OakleyDokely]

I'd do VV+GTJ but I wouldn't do OG+GTJ.

OG's just so valuable on that contract. He's back to being underrated. He's capable of being the best defender on the floor on any given night, who can guard 1-5, and he can chip in close to 20 points with a bunch of 3s. He's the prototypical modern NBA player and a key cog in the Raptors system. The Raps record without him in the lineup this year was pretty mediocre. Health has been an issue, but as soon as you deal him, you'd be looking to replace him and you won't be able to.

[Steelo Green]

What's hilarious is you are always trying to make these ridiculous connections. Just because people are bringing up the fact that spacing would be a serious issue doesn't mean they wouldn't consider SGA. 99% (or more) of Raptors fans would make that trade too if all it took was FVV+GTJ and a future 1st.

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Just lol.

We would never offer both.

Don’t be so sure

I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but come on...you were even the OP.

OG+GTJ =/= GTJ+FVV

Really?

People here value Fred over both those guys so now a lesser package and we only give one? Or do you think Fred is less valuable than either of them? Not only that in your OP you had those two AND a first whereas the one discussed is OG and Trent no first.

Elite level goal post deflection.

[Steelo Green]

I'd do VV+GTJ but I wouldn't do OG+GTJ.

OG's just so valuable on that contract. He's back to being underrated. He's capable of being the best defender on the floor on any given night, who can guard 1-5, and he can chip in close to 20 points with a bunch of 3s. He's the prototypical modern NBA player and a key cog in the Raptors system. The Raps record without him in the lineup this year was pretty mediocre. Health has been an issue, but as soon as you deal him, you'd be looking to replace him and you won't be able to.

People really think OG is more valuable than Fred now? Why is that?

None of those three are keeper players.

You need stars to win in this league. Anyone who wouldn’t trade any combo of those three players for a true star level guard is as usual valuing their own players to another degree.

It’s incredible post deflection to defend friends here.

Fred now is less valuable than OG despite Fred being the most important piece to many all season prior to his injury, now contract + age makes OG more valuable because of his D?

The lack of consistency in story just to defend narratives here is comical.

Go to the gen board, OKC, any non Raptor board and they would laugh at Fred/OG + Trent for Shai.

[Los_29]

I'd do VV+GTJ but I wouldn't do OG+GTJ.

OG's just so valuable on that contract. He's back to being underrated. He's capable of being the best defender on the floor on any given night, who can guard 1-5, and he can chip in close to 20 points with a bunch of 3s. He's the prototypical modern NBA player and a key cog in the Raptors system. The Raps record without him in the lineup this year was pretty mediocre. Health has been an issue, but as soon as you deal him, you'd be looking to replace him and you won't be able to.

I would definitely do FVV/GTJ as well but when we are talking years of draft capital on top of that that’s when I draw the line.

[pingpongrac]

Don’t be so sure

I know reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, but come on...you were even the OP.

OG+GTJ =/= GTJ+FVV

Really?

People here value Fred over both those guys so now a lesser package and we only give one? Or do you think Fred is less valuable than either of them? Not only that in your OP you had those two AND a first whereas the one discussed is OG and Trent no first.

Elite level goal post deflection.

You are the one moving the goalposts lol. OG and FVV are not the same player. FVV is better than OG at this point, but that doesn't mean he'd necessarily be more valuable to every team (especially a tanking team like OKC). FVV is essentially an expiring contract in the 2023 offseason and will be in his late 20s/early 30s for his new contract while OG is locked up for at least one extra year and is 3-4 years younger. The trade in my OP had FVV+GTJ+24 1st and it was part of a larger 4-team deal. You're conflating two completely different scenarios.