SotD: Shot Difficulty and Efficiency

[Steelo Green]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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[Madhouse]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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Fred and GTJ lack talent and IQ, OG lacks finishing talent.

Not a good look for 4-5 year vets.

[7 Footer]

Damn, 2 guys jacking up ill advised shots, meanwhile Barnes in some elite company.

[Indeed]

Would like to filter by shots being assisted (self created), but probably won't have that information for missed shot.

I wonder if we have a better finisher or lob threat, would that make our finishing better. But lack of spacing definitely contribute to poor finishing at rim by our guards.

[Los_29]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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Fred and GTJ lack talent and IQ, OG lacks finishing talent.

Not a good look for 4-5 year vets.

There are quite a few players on that side of the chart. Tatum, Ball, Demar, Garland, Young, CJ and Harden are some names that stick out. I wouldn't say any of them lack IQ. In terms of 3 point shooting, both Gary and Fred ranked reasonably well in shot quality and shot making at least in 2020-21. Don't have the data for this year though.

I can tell you right now, if you make the all-star team as a 6ft guard with below average athleticism then you're a high IQ player especially when you're in consideration for ALL-NBA defense and you put up 20/4/7. Why do you think Fred excels in this league? I have never seen an analyst, scout or executive refer to Fred as a low IQ player. Do you know anyone around the league that have referred to Fred as one?

I also don't see OG and Pascal in this. Can anyone else see where they are?

[Steelo Green]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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Fred and GTJ lack talent and IQ, OG lacks finishing talent.

Not a good look for 4-5 year vets.

There are quite a few players on that side of the chart. Tatum, Ball, Demar, Garland, Young, CJ and Harden are some names that stick out.

Yeah - but they make them.

[Syd-TK3]

Fred and Gary bottom left while Scottie and Siakam top right tells you everything you need to know about this teams offense

Edit nvm that's AD not Siakam can't find Siakam

[Selwynraj]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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Fred and GTJ lack talent and IQ, OG lacks finishing talent.

Not a good look for 4-5 year vets.

Fred - low IQ I really don't think so. With the physical limitations he have and all the things he does on the court off the court, his defense, and his communication on the court, how he reads and reacts to plays, if anything he is very high IQ player. GTJ may be.

[Hoopstarr]

Fred is a high IQ player, but his refusal to develop a floater is very dumb. But I'll settle for mid-range improvement.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Yes glaring weaknesses in both player's games. Hopefully GTJ gets better at the rim. FVV got better at the rim this year, it's just still bad. Don't see that improving much. He just needs to keep getting better at picking his spots and draining a few mid range pull ups on his drives.

[Steelo Green]

Fred high IQ who takes low IQ shots.

[pingpongrac]

Just look at the two sides of the graphic. On the left side, it's basically all PGs/SGs that are top options or main playmakers. On the right side, it's basically all Cs or star wings/forwards. This shouldn't come as a surprise considering PGs/SGs are generally creating more for themselves while bigs/wings benefit from having plays made from them or converting second chance opportunities for the most part.

It's fine to say that FVV and GTJ aren't good finishers, but it's ridiculous to use this tiny data set that consists of ~15% of their FGA as the reason why they are low IQ players. Classic Raptors RealGM strikes again.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Fred and Gary rarely shoot at the rim, but they have to head toward it in order to shift the defense or draw fouls. Where the Raptors suffer a little is that Precious is bad here, as was Birch. They've addressed that they need a big that can put pressure on the rim, and they just don't have that with their line-ups. I think the chart is a little misleading because it implies that Fred and Gary are launching constant bricks and killing the offense, but they aren't. Gary's more comparable to a shooter like Desmond Bane (not as good, but similar role).

[ATLTimekeeper]

Just look at the two sides of the graphic. On the left side, it's basically all PGs/SGs that are top options or main playmakers. On the right side, it's basically all Cs or star wings/forwards. This shouldn't come as a surprise considering PGs/SGs are generally creating more for themselves while bigs/wings benefit from having plays made from them or converting second chance opportunities for the most part.

It's fine to say that FVV and GTJ aren't good finishers, but it's ridiculous to use this tiny data set that consists of ~15% of their FGA as the reason why they are low IQ players. Classic Raptors RealGM strikes again.

There's also a misunderstanding of this stat that seems to imply that shots at the rim are bad shots. Fred shot 65% 0-3 feet this year. Gary 58%. Those are high % shots, even if they're higher for more talented players. These guys take plenty worse shots than the ones they force at the rim

[DelAbbot]

I think FVV shoots some bad shots like pull-up 30 feet "fu-3s", forces some drives and midrange shots because our set offense doesn't generate much against good defenses. Our offense is poor so someone has to take those bad shots, or we will have many more shot-clock violations.

GTJ takes shots with a hand in his face routinely, with a jab and step-back to create separation to get his shot off. That style of basketball from a below-avg athletic guard is horse-dung

[Los_29]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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Some of them do. The point is they are bad shots therefore they are low IQ players. So the question is why are they taking bad shots?

Fred high IQ who takes low IQ shots.

And I'm genuinely curious if you've come across an analyst/executive/scout in the NBA that has said Fred is a low IQ player because I honestly haven't seen anything. One quick google search and it's actually the opposite of what you suggest.

From Kyle Lowry:

“Just look at him! He’s not that tall, he’s not that athletic, but he still gets the job done … That takes skill, that takes knowledge, that takes smarts. And then he got here and you could tell he was a guy who watches basketball, knows basketball and knows his job. He’s smart as ...”

From Nick Nurse:

He’s just got great IQ. He anticipates. He’s a step ahead sometimes.”

He’s really smart with the ball, and he can shoot coming off (of blitzes if the defence tries to recover), and he’s a problem. He’s a problem on the screen-and-roll, and when you’re a problem, when you get it going, you’re going to get blitzed some.”

Why do you think Fred's been able to make an all-star team, be in consideration for ALL-NBA defense? Is it because of his incredible physical attributes and jaw dropping athleticism?

[Steelo Green]

Fred and Gary rarely shoot at the rim, but they have to head toward it in order to shift the defense or draw fouls. Where the Raptors suffer a little is that Precious is bad here, as was Birch. They've addressed that they need a big that can put pressure on the rim, and they just don't have that with their line-ups. I think the chart is a little misleading because it implies that Fred and Gary are launching constant bricks and killing the offense, but they aren't. Gary's more comparable to a shooter like Desmond Bane (not as good, but similar role).

Players who take bad shots can also be good at them.

Our guys take bad shots and are bad at them.

[Jcity08]

Siakam and Scottie at the top right
GTJ and FVV at the bottom left
OG at the mid botton right

[Madhouse]

Some interesting Raptors. Scottie is elite already and takes good shots as well.

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Fred and GTJ lack talent and IQ, OG lacks finishing talent.

Not a good look for 4-5 year vets.

There are quite a few players on that side of the chart. Tatum, Ball, Demar, Garland, Young, CJ and Harden are some names that stick out. I wouldn't say any of them lack IQ. In terms of 3 point shooting, both Gary and Fred ranked reasonably well in shot quality and shot making at least in 2020-21. Don't have the data for this year though.

I think it just highlights the fact that Fred and Gary were asked to do too much offensively. Ideally, Fred is bumped down to the 3rd or 4th option on offense in the future. It all depends on Scottie's development though. He needs to improve that jump shot because we can't have a repeat of what happened in game 6 where the Sixers were just letting him shoot all game. In the playoffs it's just too easy to defend against and makes it harder for others to score. If Scottie can develop that part of the game then he's going to become one of our primary scorers and a perennial all-star in this league. Then our players will get into their proper roles offensively.

I can tell you right now, if you make the all-star team as a 6ft guard with below average athleticism then you're a high IQ player especially when you're in consideration for ALL-NBA defense and you put up 20/4/7. Why do you think Fred excels in this league? I have never seen an analyst, scout or executive refer to Fred as a low IQ player. Do you know anyone around the league that have referred to Fred as one?

I also don't see OG and Pascal in this. Can anyone else see where they are?

well Siakam is just above Jokic.

OG is mid to bottom right.

[Los_29]

It's also important to note that this not about overall shot difficulty and shot efficiency. It's strictly about rim shot quality and rim shot making which is why on the right side of the chart consists of big men and the left side of the chart consists of guards. But I'm sure it was just a mistake on the OP's part.

This chart here paints a different picture.

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