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Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference

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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#141 » by deeps6x » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:41 am

S.W.A.N wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:

I'd argue that Pascal has proven to be that guy. His ability to iso translates well to the playoffs.

And if Pascal isn't a great 1st option he is certainly an above average 2nd option. He was a great robin to Kawhi's Batman. Now he he slowly improving his batman routine.

The thing this team will have that most won't is depth and versatility. I am a big believer in Scottie and Precious. I think they both are going to have real progression this season and it is going to make a huge difference.

And if Precious forces his way into starting lineup with good play, suddenly your bench is Gary Trent, Boucher, Thad, and Porter.

Mainly my belief stems from belief that we have a legit chance of having a top 5 defense and a top 10 offense next year with the rotations as they stand. When you can be top 10 in both cats you traditionally have a strong chance of playoff success.

We might not have a true superstar as it stands but we have balance and depth and if Scottie or Pascal leads us to the finals you can throw all that talk about not having a superstar out the window.


Sorry but Pascal as great as hes been has not proven to be that guy yet....We havn't made it past the 2nd round with him as the lead guy and got blown out in 3 of 6 games this last playoffs to a 4 man team in the 76ers .....Even if you say Raps were banged up....Embiid was injured as well....

Could Pascal become that guy? well its hard for me to say he could because his lack of jump shooting.....Most guys who are that guy have a pretty high level mid range or outside game....If you shut Pascal in the paint down hes pretty limited and thats what makes him a tier below the true number 1 guys....He would be an elite Robin though if we did have that guy...

You can be top in cats on OFF and DEF and still flame out in the playoffs because playoffs is a whole different season than the reg season and comes down to matchups, And talent....Usually teams with the better mismatches and the better talent advance....

Barnes/Siakam is a good duo but is it as good as some of the other Duos in the league? im unsure especially with some of them elite teams have legit number 1 guys on them....


I'm not worried about our duo being the best. I think we are building the detroit pistons model.

3-4 all-star level starters.
1-3 ++ starter level players.
2-3 ++ bench level players.

Fred and Pascal are already all-star level starters, OG is on the door and is going to hit it with a sledge hammer.

Scottie is the biggest question mark. He's also the guy with the most upside. If he takes one of those big second year leaps that we've seen superstars take.. He's an all-star.

Precious, Gary Trent Jr, and Porter Jr are all arguably starter level players, although Precious hasn't shown it for more than half a season yet.

Boucher and Thad are definitely ++ bench level players. And there a real chance that at least one of Malachi, Banton, Champaigne could join that list. They aren't there yet, but they all have skillsets that could add them into the group.


I don't think we are elite yet, but a definite dark horse team that is capable of beating any team in a series if things go well. Last year was a massive learning curve for multiple players on our team and this year we are going to see the results. And it is going to be awesome.


I wouldn't lump GTJ in with Precious and Porter. Those two guys haven't shown they are capable of taking over games and being unstoppable. At least we had a glimpse of this from Gary. Otto is past his prime, but not far past, so all we can hope for is he gives us what he gave Golden State. Precious could turn into 'that guy' in the future. GTJ was 'that guy' at times last season.

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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#142 » by refshateRaps » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:58 pm

Los_29 wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Remember a lot of people on here thought this team was going to be in the lottery last year. I think most rational people are thinking long-term. No one is expecting this team to win a championship this year but I don't think Masai & Co had that in mind this time last year. They are looking towards building a championship team.

Depending on how much Scottie, Precious, OG, GTJ have improved, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get to the 2nd round and at least compete with some of the upper echelon teams (obviously depends on how our young players look).



The issue is there is alot of content about maybe getting to the 2nd round it when an Alpha is available that make us a contender if we simply give our talented rookie. Id love to keep him but at the same time you gotta be happy we drafted a piece we can trade for a Superstar with a solid vet team ready to contend

Mind boggling. I mean even if we fail with KD oh well, atleast we went for it for 2 years instead of selling hope that a Superstar will be available for us to land in 3-4 years down the road


Scottie makes 10 million dollars. We wouldn’t just be giving him up because salaries would have to match.

Let’s not forget that getting KD doesn’t automatically make you a title contender. He got embarrassed in the playoffs last year. Couldn’t even win a game. LOL.

Trading Scottie for a 34 year old KD is what sets franchises back years.

Is having a 2 year window better than having a 10-15 year window?

We aren’t getting a prime KD. We are getting a KD with a couple years left.


I disagree about being in instant contender. I also never said Scottie for KD straight up. We'd give up wither OG or more likely GTJ
We have a very solid verteran bench & a starting line-up as below is instant contenders. Guys in their prime like Fred, Pascal, who have been in the battles, OG observed it all. We'd still need to pick up a useful vet Centre at the deadline. But ya, sorry this is far better then the team with Scottie where no one can end runs consistently or finish games.

Fred
Durant
OG
Pascal
Precious

You give any Pascal, Fred, or OG space on the court & they score with ease. This is a serious contender on both ends of the court.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#143 » by Live Free » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:49 pm

Los_29 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
That’s true but it also goes against his argument. Jimmy was the best player in that series and they still lost because the rest of the team was awful. Celtics made the finals despite never having the best player in the series.

Having the best player in a series is irrelevant. Even Giannis despite being a monster in that Celtics series couldn’t get past them on his own.

Having Luka didn’t stop the Mavs from getting embarrassed in the WCF. You can’t win in this league with weak links in your rotation. Even the Warriors had to limit guys like Jordan Poole’s minutes as the playoffs progressed.


Having the best player absolutely matters lol. Luka might be better than Curry but they're still in the same tier. Same with Tatum and playoff Jimmy.

Bucks had no business of winning that series and it still went to 7 due to how great Giannis is. You need your best player to be able to go tit for tat with the other team's best player for stretches, we don't know if Siakam can do that yet.


and played like he did in the playoffs last year


0 points in the second half and overtime in game three after bein down 2-0 in the series... and 2pts in the second half of elimination game six?

You aren't getting the point. Every player you've mentioned I'd take over pascal. KD Luka Tatum butler jokic giannis.. are you following?

And yes having the best player on the floor matters. You can say it doesn't all you want but having the best team starts with that nucleus
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#144 » by Los_29 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 4:31 pm

Live Free wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
HumbleRen wrote:
Having the best player absolutely matters lol. Luka might be better than Curry but they're still in the same tier. Same with Tatum and playoff Jimmy.

Bucks had no business of winning that series and it still went to 7 due to how great Giannis is. You need your best player to be able to go tit for tat with the other team's best player for stretches, we don't know if Siakam can do that yet.


and played like he did in the playoffs last year


0 points in the second half and overtime in game three after bein down 2-0 in the series... and 2pts in the second half of elimination game six?

You aren't getting the point. Every player you've mentioned I'd take over pascal. KD Luka Tatum butler jokic giannis.. are you following?

And yes having the best player on the floor matters. You can say it doesn't all you want but having the best team starts with that nucleus


You don't seem to understand how this works. If you think having the best player on the court matters then you have to prove it, not just say it.

23/7/6 were Pascal's averages during the playoffs last year. Tatum averaged 2 more points per game than Pascal did on the same efficiency. You talked about Pascal having a couple really bad stretches, well Butler, KD and Tatum all had miserable games/stretches in the playoffs. Did you watch the NBA finals? Did you watch the game where KD shot 4/17 from the field? Or how bout the game where he took 11 shots? How bout the three game stretch in which Jimmy Butler shot 10-40? Did you watch those games? You bringing up the fact that Pascal had a bad half doesn't prove anything.

And I don't get your point about wanting those players over Pascal. That's irrelevant. I'd want Jokic over every player on the Suns but that didn't stop the Suns from sweeping him in 2021. Thus, once again proving my point that having the best player doesn't matter. Your point that having the best player in a series matters is just flat out wrong. We get it, you don't like Pascal. But your inability to be objective is a real problem here.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#145 » by Johnny Bball » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:11 pm

refshateRaps wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
vulture wrote:
People in here really believe the raptors are contenders this season. It’s almost like they forgot what a difference a superstar makes.

This team is going to be good in the regular season but they really have no chance in the playoffs.


Remember a lot of people on here thought this team was going to be in the lottery last year. I think most rational people are thinking long-term. No one is expecting this team to win a championship this year but I don't think Masai & Co had that in mind this time last year. They are looking towards building a championship team.

Depending on how much Scottie, Precious, OG, GTJ have improved, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to get to the 2nd round and at least compete with some of the upper echelon teams (obviously depends on how our young players look).



The issue is there is alot of content about maybe getting to the 2nd round it when an Alpha is available that make us a contender if we simply give our talented rookie. Id love to keep him but at the same time you gotta be happy we drafted a piece we can trade for a Superstar with a solid vet team ready to contend

Mind boggling. I mean even if we fail with KD oh well, atleast we went for it for 2 years instead of selling hope that a Superstar will be available for us to land in 3-4 years down the road


I would guess 95+% of this forum wants to keep Barnes and swear and call you names for the mere suggestion!

It is impatient and IMO short-sighted, and not very mind-boggling at all.

And Durant has never said he would be interested in being in Toronto. He has publicly said the Suns, Heat, Sixers, Celtics and not surprisingly even said Toronto. Why do you think that is?
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#146 » by S.W.A.N » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:11 pm

deeps6x wrote:
S.W.A.N wrote:
Clutch0z24 wrote:
Sorry but Pascal as great as hes been has not proven to be that guy yet....We havn't made it past the 2nd round with him as the lead guy and got blown out in 3 of 6 games this last playoffs to a 4 man team in the 76ers .....Even if you say Raps were banged up....Embiid was injured as well....

Could Pascal become that guy? well its hard for me to say he could because his lack of jump shooting.....Most guys who are that guy have a pretty high level mid range or outside game....If you shut Pascal in the paint down hes pretty limited and thats what makes him a tier below the true number 1 guys....He would be an elite Robin though if we did have that guy...

You can be top in cats on OFF and DEF and still flame out in the playoffs because playoffs is a whole different season than the reg season and comes down to matchups, And talent....Usually teams with the better mismatches and the better talent advance....

Barnes/Siakam is a good duo but is it as good as some of the other Duos in the league? im unsure especially with some of them elite teams have legit number 1 guys on them....


I'm not worried about our duo being the best. I think we are building the detroit pistons model.

3-4 all-star level starters.
1-3 ++ starter level players.
2-3 ++ bench level players.

Fred and Pascal are already all-star level starters, OG is on the door and is going to hit it with a sledge hammer.

Scottie is the biggest question mark. He's also the guy with the most upside. If he takes one of those big second year leaps that we've seen superstars take.. He's an all-star.

Precious, Gary Trent Jr, and Porter Jr are all arguably starter level players, although Precious hasn't shown it for more than half a season yet.

Boucher and Thad are definitely ++ bench level players. And there a real chance that at least one of Malachi, Banton, Champaigne could join that list. They aren't there yet, but they all have skillsets that could add them into the group.


I don't think we are elite yet, but a definite dark horse team that is capable of beating any team in a series if things go well. Last year was a massive learning curve for multiple players on our team and this year we are going to see the results. And it is going to be awesome.


I wouldn't lump GTJ in with Precious and Porter. Those two guys haven't shown they are capable of taking over games and being unstoppable. At least we had a glimpse of this from Gary. Otto is past his prime, but not far past, so all we can hope for is he gives us what he gave Golden State. Precious could turn into 'that guy' in the future. GTJ was 'that guy' at times last season.

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GTJ was that guy offensively... And that definitely is important.

Precious and Porter represent more balance between offense and defense. I don't think that is an unfair grouping. Porter is an excellent 3 and D wing who can be one of our top defenders and shooters. Precious has the potential to be better than Bam (Precious propaganda is strong in this one)

My point is that all three of them could start on winning teams yet two of them are for sure going to be coming off the bench. That is the kind of depth that adds wins during the course of a season.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#147 » by refshateRaps » Mon Aug 15, 2022 8:54 pm

Johnny Bball wrote:
And Durant has never said he would be interested in being in Toronto. He has publicly said the Suns, Heat, Sixers, Celtics and not surprisingly even said Toronto. Why do you think that is?


My guess is Drake doesn't fluff him like he used too.

Guy just wants to go to a TOP team first. Problem with those teams they may not longer be better post trade when they are giving up a Star... So cant happen unless Boston bites. Whereas here we become a contender and fill a huge void come playoff time in an already gritty roster.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#148 » by Los_29 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:03 pm

refshateRaps wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
And Durant has never said he would be interested in being in Toronto. He has publicly said the Suns, Heat, Sixers, Celtics and not surprisingly even said Toronto. Why do you think that is?


My guess is Drake doesn't fluff him like he used too.

Guy just wants to go to a TOP team first. Problem with those teams they may not longer be better post trade when they are giving up a Star... So cant happen unless Boston bites. Whereas here we become a contender and fill a huge void come playoff time in an already gritty roster.


The problem is Fred/GTJ/KD/Pascal/Precious is by no means guaranteed to compete for a title.

If you trade for KD you're not looking to get a round better. You're looking to win the championship.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#149 » by refshateRaps » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:15 pm

Los_29 wrote:
refshateRaps wrote:
Johnny Bball wrote:
And Durant has never said he would be interested in being in Toronto. He has publicly said the Suns, Heat, Sixers, Celtics and not surprisingly even said Toronto. Why do you think that is?


My guess is Drake doesn't fluff him like he used too.

Guy just wants to go to a TOP team first. Problem with those teams they may not longer be better post trade when they are giving up a Star... So cant happen unless Boston bites. Whereas here we become a contender and fill a huge void come playoff time in an already gritty roster.


The problem is Fred/GTJ/KD/Pascal/Precious is by no means guaranteed to compete for a title.

If you trade for KD you're not looking to get a round better. You're looking to win the championship.


Replace GTJ with OG if at all possible. That lineup with the veteran bench we already have is insane

Add a veteran Centre before the deadline whos hungry to play for a title

We are serious contenders with a supporting cast to the Alpha scoring Superstar who are all in their prime

Night & day in terms of being a playoff team then with our baby Jeezus Scottie.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#150 » by mihaic » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:17 pm

I think the reason it does not get done is also because a package of Brown and White (lol) and 1 pick is not that much more value if at all, than a potential package of gtj and OG and 2 picks. And neither Celts nor Raps will improve the offer. Nets are hoping to wait for other teams to raise the return but I am not sure it will happen soon. The market for Durant is quite limited unless they wait for trade deadline when maybe a western team gets desperate.
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Re: Raptors had by far the worst starting 5 of the top 9 teams in the Eastern Conference 

Post#151 » by Live Free » Wed Aug 17, 2022 12:42 am

Los_29 wrote:
Live Free wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
and played like he did in the playoffs last year


0 points in the second half and overtime in game three after bein down 2-0 in the series... and 2pts in the second half of elimination game six?

You aren't getting the point. Every player you've mentioned I'd take over pascal. KD Luka Tatum butler jokic giannis.. are you following?

And yes having the best player on the floor matters. You can say it doesn't all you want but having the best team starts with that nucleus


You don't seem to understand how this works. If you think having the best player on the court matters then you have to prove it, not just say it.

23/7/6 were Pascal's averages during the playoffs last year. Tatum averaged 2 more points per game than Pascal did on the same efficiency. You talked about Pascal having a couple really bad stretches, well Butler, KD and Tatum all had miserable games/stretches in the playoffs. Did you watch the NBA finals? Did you watch the game where KD shot 4/17 from the field? Or how bout the game where he took 11 shots? How bout the three game stretch in which Jimmy Butler shot 10-40? Did you watch those games? You bringing up the fact that Pascal had a bad half doesn't prove anything.

And I don't get your point about wanting those players over Pascal. That's irrelevant. I'd want Jokic over every player on the Suns but that didn't stop the Suns from sweeping him in 2021. Thus, once again proving my point that having the best player doesn't matter. Your point that having the best player in a series matters is just flat out wrong. We get it, you don't like Pascal. But your inability to be objective is a real problem here.


Curry, giannis, LeBron, kawhi, kd, kd, LeBron, Curry, Duncan, LeBron. Past 10 years champions.. having the best player on the court definitely matters Lol.

Don't get off topic though.. the point is yes we're to rank worst out of Eastern starters.. Pascal is ba tier below anyone you've mentioned and it starts with him

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