Which Duo would you start your team with? Zion and Ingram or Siakam and Scottie

[HumbleRen]

I posted their regular season numbers, they were nearly identical, only Siakam is a much better defender.

Ingram played 6 playoff games. He was very good, but it was 6 games.

One is 24 and the other is 28. That's really what it comes down to.

Teams bank on upside when it comes to drafting, Ingram has more of it.

And as I said, when Siakam was the age Ingram is now, he made an all-nba team.

Pascal won his MIP at Ingram's age right now. You're thinking of the next year.

[OakleyDokely]

One is 24 and the other is 28. That's really what it comes down to.

Teams bank on upside when it comes to drafting, Ingram has more of it.

And as I said, when Siakam was the age Ingram is now, he made an all-nba team.

Pascal won his MIP at Ingram's age right now. You're thinking of the next year.

Yup, so in order to just match what Siakam has done at similar ages, Ingram needs to make an all-nba team this year.

Siakam made all-nba in years 4 and 6. Ingram is going on year 7.

[pingpongrac]

Ingram is 24 coming off of averaging 27/5/5 on insane %'s in his first appearance of the playoffs as the first option.

Pascal isn't doing that at age 24 and probably still can't even do that right now.

If you're going to play the age card, you have to at least acknowledge that Ingram has MUCH more experience now than Siakam did when he was a Champion and All-NBA player; Siakam accomplished more in 3 (Champion + MIP) or 4 seasons (All-Star + 2nd team All-NBA) than Ingram (MIP + All-Star + great 6-game series in a loss) in his 6-year career.

It's not really the age card, it's what teams do lol. If they're in the same sphere of talent, they're going to go with the player that's 3 and half years younger.

You are playing the age card. The original point was that Siakam was an All-Star and made 2nd team All-NBA when he put up 23/7/4 at 25 whereas Ingram has put up 23/5/5 type numbers the last 3 seasons (23/6/6 at 24.5) and has one All-Star selection to show for it. You were being a bit of a revisionist by claiming Siakam could never do what Ingram did at 24 (again...in 6 games) then doubled down by saying he still couldn't do it now when he put up comparable numbers in his own 6-game series.

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[HumbleRen]

And as I said, when Siakam was the age Ingram is now, he made an all-nba team.

Pascal won his MIP at Ingram's age right now. You're thinking of the next year.

Yup, so in order to just match what Siakam has done, Ingram needs to make an all-nba team this year.

Yep

[bballsparkin]

I am so sick of these polls that include Zion and even moreso of people who keep choosing Zion over our guys. Yo Zion has played 85 games in THREE seasons. He is a poor free throw shooter and a worse 3 pt shooter. Yes he is an interior force and makes spectacular plays but he has significant limitations when he plays and more importantly he hardly ever plays! and yet there are many people here taking him over scottie? this board, man...brainwashed by ESPN or something...

It seems to me you are over-reacting. From the OP

Saw this poll on general board viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2219776

64% would take Zion/Ingram

Currently on the Raptors board: 62% choose Siakam and Scottie. So the poll has completely shifted in the Raptors duo favour compared to the general board. You know who else was a poor FT and 3 point shooter? Shaq. But unlike Shaq, Zion can't seem to stay healthy. Hopefully he is healthy this year because I'd love to see him playing with JV. The rare times he has played Zion has been intriguing.

[Wannabe MEP]

I would go with Zion + Ingram - both close to the same timeline

The age gap is huge between Scottie and Pascal which will rear its head as Pascal ages

Timeline is super important. Otherwise ya might have one of those Magic-Kareem situations.

[Madhouse]

Zion can't stay healthy. Answer should be obvious.

[Duffman100]

Nothing new to add, but I'll chime in.

If Zion was healthy, the answer is obvious. Zion is a freak. 27, 7 and 4 on 61% from the field at 20 years old. That's top 5 player potential right there. You have to go him if he's healthy.

[lobosloboslobos]

I am so sick of these polls that include Zion and even moreso of people who keep choosing Zion over our guys. Yo Zion has played 85 games in THREE seasons. He is a poor free throw shooter and a worse 3 pt shooter. Yes he is an interior force and makes spectacular plays but he has significant limitations when he plays and more importantly he hardly ever plays! and yet there are many people here taking him over scottie? this board, man...brainwashed by ESPN or something...

It seems to me you are over-reacting. From the OP

moi? overreact?

[vulture]

Nothing new to add, but I'll chime in.

If Zion was healthy, the answer is obvious. Zion is a freak. 27, 7 and 4 on 61% from the field at 20 years old. That's top 5 player potential right there. You have to go him if he's healthy.

for sure. he's played 85 games in 3 seasons so that's a big if.
He's a marketing magnet and incredible when he plays tho.

[RoyceDa59]

The basketball community deserves a full season of Zion.

Dude could literally put up 30 ppg on 60% shooting. If healthy he’s a top 10 player in the NBA no cap, that’s how dominant he can be physically.

I hope we get to see it this season.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

current status quo, Barnes and Siakam

when healthy, Zion and Ingram

[oldncreaky]

I would go with Zion + Ingram - both close to the same timeline

The age gap is huge between Scottie and Pascal which will rear its head as Pascal ages

Timeline is super important. Otherwise ya might have one of those Magic-Kareem situations.

Yeah, I'd hate it if the age gap was like Magic and Kareem, resulting in 8 Finals and 5 rings in the next 10 years

[OakleyDokely]

I would go with Zion + Ingram - both close to the same timeline

The age gap is huge between Scottie and Pascal which will rear its head as Pascal ages

Timeline is super important. Otherwise ya might have one of those Magic-Kareem situations.

Or a Kawhi-Lowry situation.

[billy_hoyle]

I would go with Zion + Ingram - both close to the same timeline

The age gap is huge between Scottie and Pascal which will rear its head as Pascal ages

Timeline is super important. Otherwise ya might have one of those Magic-Kareem situations.

Or a Kawhi-Lowry situation.

Historically, I've always thought it would be ideal for a young nucleus to build together and all be relatively the same age, but I'm not so sure anymore. In my mind you'd get like 10+ yrs of continuity.

What teams were actually able to achieve that? The Duncan Spurs, and the Curry Warriors?

Off the top of my head, the 'best' same age core rebuilds were:

The Roy/Oden/LaMarcus + + (Rudy Fernandez, Batum etc.) Blazers teams never even really got off the ground.

The KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka core was too expensive (for OKC), and never won a chip.

The Minny team of Kat, Wiggins and LaVine was impatient, and had to retool with another Antman tank.

In retrospect, alot of the young nucleus teams never seem to have the right mix of vets and youngsters to contend. Maybe it's optimal to have that ~6 yr gap. It means there's a group of veterans that know they should be winning, and probably feel the impetus of time or career clock pushing their effort and focus.

The young guys still have time...the rosey future seems guaranteed (which isn't likely the case), and never really put it together as a continuous core.

Right now you have Detroit, OKC, Houston and Orlando as the teams that built same age cores through the draft. They're not done yet, but I'm curious to see if any of these cores actually makes it to contention intact.

[Psubs]

1 game 5 on 5, Zion and BI.

To start a franchise, Zion is more dominant than Scottie but their careers may not be on such different levels. I'm guessing that Zion will be more along Anthony Davis in terms of games played per season. I'd give a slight edge to Scottie. Siakam is older but BI could have more problems down the road like Chris Bosh. Siakam seems to be a more solid choice.