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How isn't EVERYONE seeing this as an ideal BLOW IT UP situation including MANAGEMENT at this point??

- We are 11th in the East.

- Even if we start winning a bit we are clearly a treadmill team at BEST(worst position for a franchise to be in)

- FVV is clearly flawed and isn't taking us anywhere besides treadmill territory, he's 29 yrs old, declining, and a free agent you don't want to overpay.

- GTJ is a free agent and will be another new contract contributing to this treadmill core.

- Our best player is 28 yrs old, could potentially get a supermax contract which would likely cement us into a treadmill future for years.

- The ceiling for this leadership core (FVV + Siakam) is pretty much sealed - they're both about to be 29 yrs old and max our future as a treadmill team +  both need to be resigned potentially to BIG DEALS! Pivot much orr?

- We could potentially get big returns for our core players who are highly valued around the league.

- We have a promising young player ( Barnes) or two (OG) to potentially boost our rebuild with.

- This is one of the deepest draft in years with a couple potential superstars at the top.

- Unlike past yrs we are currently not far off from top 5 draft lottery odds.

- Choosing not to rebuild/blow it up and resign this core to big deals CLEAR AS DAY cements us into a treadmill team for yrs.

- There are rumors some players are currently disgruntled on the roster.

- By not trading FVV + Trent you either lose for nothing or resign them to deals we'll likely regret, lock us into being a treadmill team.

- This is a turning point moment that requires immediate ACTION (FVV+GTJ) before we lock ourselves into a non-contending future.

- Actually making Pascal Siakam available for trade at his top value EVER could potentially yield a MASSIVE return.

- There are way too many immediate contract decisions that must be made with this current core (FVV+GTJ+Siakam) - choosing to keep current core clearly locks us into a treadmill team with bad contracts.

- The Eastern conference and NBA in general has become so much more improved, this current core convincingly has no path to contending.

We could add more...

It's become overwhelmingly clear, BLOW IT THE F UP MASAI!!!!!!

Is it not if you're not dillusional?

Will MLSE allow a full rebuild? When they gave Masai that huge contract I think they had winning in mind.

Personally I would rather just tank this season and get a stud player in the draft. Don’t want to sit through 5 years of being crap.

fully with you. perfect time to pivot to a new era and get a good return for two of our best assets before you have to pay them huge dollars. avoid the treadmill route.

at this point the franchise's goal should be building around barnes' timeline.

C_Money wrote:Will MLSE allow a full rebuild? When they gave Masai that huge contract I think they had winning in mind.

Personally I would rather just tank this season and get a stud player in the draft. Don’t want to sit through 5 years of being crap.

we're already sitting through being crap. that's the entire point. why double down on it? tearing down doesn't mean you have to instantly become houston or charlotte.

It’s only clear if management, if there is one anymore, doesn’t act and fill the two holes on the team to make a push. A big and a shooter, been that way for three years.

If they do not or cannot find those players then yes just blow it up and hit the draft for the next 2-3yrs

What you’re watching now isn’t going to get you a title anyways, and that’s the goal right ?

Based on rumours it sounds like they've already been taking calls, even for Siakam and OG. The question is will other teams be willing to meet the price?

Base on Masai's history,
he seems rarely do/choose most fans' preference no matter it's draft or trade
But right now our GM is Bobby
I'm wondering what will going on

OKC was a really good example by trading P.George after one of his best season and get SGA + load of picks
Do we have the guts to do the same thing?

microjacklin wrote:Base on Masai's history,
he seems rarely do/choose most fans' preference no matter it's draft or trade
But right now our GM is Bobby
I'm wondering what will going on

OKC was a really good example by trading P.George after one of his best season and get SGA + load of picks
Do we have the guts to do the same thing?

I don't think that was guts. George only re-signed there on the condition that he be allowed to request a trade. The haul they ended up getting for him was entirely due to the leverage of Kawhi's signing.

I doubt Masai is going to look at year 3 Scottie and give him a losing team. Every second word out of his mouth is about winning. He'd look like a massive hypocrite to blow it up and lose a lot.

C_Money wrote:Will MLSE allow a full rebuild? When they gave Masai that huge contract I think they had winning in mind.

Personally I would rather just tank this season and get a stud player in the draft. Don’t want to sit through 5 years of being crap.

People seemed to be very binary when they think about this but I doubt the front office is. The better way to do this is to perhaps reshuffle to younger more cost controlled recent draft picks rather than a straight up give me your crap players and a load of picks type trade(s).

we are still evaluating

I think it has, personally. The Grange article was the writing on the wall. To sneak into the playoffs and avoid the play-in, we'd have to be basically contender-lite until the end of the season. It's not happening.

I think Masai is already preparing.

It's very possible that management does know this and they're working behind the scenes on deals. Just because they haven't traded anyone yet doesn't mean they're not actively doing their jobs.

Brinbe wrote:fully with you. perfect time to pivot to a new era and get a good return for two of our best assets before you have to pay them huge dollars. avoid the treadmill route.

at this point the franchise's goal should be building around barnes' timeline.

C_Money wrote:Will MLSE allow a full rebuild? When they gave Masai that huge contract I think they had winning in mind.

Personally I would rather just tank this season and get a stud player in the draft. Don’t want to sit through 5 years of being crap.

we're already sitting through being crap. that's the entire point. why double down on it? tearing down doesn't mean you have to instantly become houston or charlotte.

i agree that we need to blow it up but it's easier to sell tickets as a mediocre team than a tanking one. Can the casual fan name 5 players on the Spurs or Rockets?

ATLTimekeeper wrote:

microjacklin wrote:Base on Masai's history,
he seems rarely do/choose most fans' preference no matter it's draft or trade
But right now our GM is Bobby
I'm wondering what will going on

OKC was a really good example by trading P.George after one of his best season and get SGA + load of picks
Do we have the guts to do the same thing?

I don't think that was guts. George only re-signed there on the condition that he be allowed to request a trade. The haul they ended up getting for him was entirely due to the leverage of Kawhi's signing.

I doubt Masai is going to look at year 3 Scottie and give him a losing team. Every second word out of his mouth is about winning. He'd look like a massive hypocrite to blow it up and lose a lot.

If he handed Scottie the keys and told him I'll get players to compliment you hell probably be on board. Scottie wants to be the man on a winning team, make no bones about it.

I find it a bit bizarre and logically inconsistent how some posters seem to have full faith in Masai & co into building a winning team except if we go the tanking route. Then we somehow wind up as decade+ losers with 0 future.

Um, what?

Big deals tend to happen in the offseason when more teams have cap flexibility, there's less restrictions on draft picks and more players are eligible for trade.

If you're expecting a big OG or Siakam trade by the deadline, you will likely be disappointed. If they do happen, they will occur closer to the draft.

Trade deadline is usually a time when vets and rentals are dealt.

hype_2004 wrote:

ATLTimekeeper wrote:

microjacklin wrote:Base on Masai's history,
he seems rarely do/choose most fans' preference no matter it's draft or trade
But right now our GM is Bobby
I'm wondering what will going on

OKC was a really good example by trading P.George after one of his best season and get SGA + load of picks
Do we have the guts to do the same thing?

I don't think that was guts. George only re-signed there on the condition that he be allowed to request a trade. The haul they ended up getting for him was entirely due to the leverage of Kawhi's signing.

I doubt Masai is going to look at year 3 Scottie and give him a losing team. Every second word out of his mouth is about winning. He'd look like a massive hypocrite to blow it up and lose a lot.

If he handed Scottie the keys and told him I'll get players to compliment you hell probably be on board. Scottie wants to be the man on a winning team, make no bones about it.

So if we draft someone better than Scottie next year you think he'll want out? If he wants to win, he'll want to have good players to play with.

I don't know why everyone thinks it is going to be a "5 year re-build", especially if you have faith in Bobby and Masai? OKC started really tanking in 2020-21 and now 2.5 years later they are starting to turn the corner and look like a really fun and promising up coming team. You could also argue that Toronto could get as much - or a better return - for Siakim/FVV/OG/Trent as OKC got for George/Paul/Westbrook.

Masai has to do something now because he has two pending free agents in FVV and Trent Jr - even though big deals are easier to make in the off-season.

I would trade Fred before the deadline and re-sign Gary this summer.

lets first get a lead guard and not fvv. I think they do that first before starting from scratch.

MAD ROB wrote:I don't know why everyone thinks it is going to be a "5 year re-build", especially if you have faith in Bobby and Masai? OKC started really tanking in 2020-21 and now 2.5 years later they are starting to turn the corner and look like a really fun and promising up coming team. You could also argue that Toronto could get as much - or a better return - for Siakim/FVV/OG/Trent as OKC got for George/Paul/Westbrook.

They have pretty much the same record as us and their high lotto pick broke his body before he even had a chance to play. The fruits of their tanking on this team are really just Giddey, as Shai was brought in for Paul George from another team and they won right away, and then a little bit of Jalen Williams. Everyone else in the rotation is like undrafted, late first, 2nd rounder. Not really any kind of build that requires blowing it up.

But, you're right. It doesn't have to take a long time, but that's kind of the point. Rebuilding in a big way has many different outcomes, occasionally you might get a quicker return to competency.