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Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV

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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#81 » by Harold_and_Kumar » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:09 pm

pingpongrac wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:This board is wildin' and has been for some time now. There have been numerous threads exaggerating FVV's negative on-court and off-court impact he has on the team, but it's a whole new level lately.

A few weeks ago it was "Thad got mad at Scottie because Scottie and GTJ were making fun of FVV" even though it literally had to do with Scottie and GTJ seemingly being nonchalant during halftime warm-ups. Yesterday it was "FVV is the worst ISO scorer in the league" even though a quick search on NBA.com shows that there are 5 worse (1 of which is almost identical) ISO scorers on our team alone. Tonight it is "there is friction between FVV and OG because of something OG said to Nurse 3 years ago" even though there is absolutely no evidence of turmoil between FVV and OG. If only people could point to FVV not following OG on Instagram (like how he doesn't follow Scottie) as more proof that they hate each other's guts.


Like I said before,fvv is not that good To warrant such unwaverable defense. It is this attitude and delusion that is ruining the culture of this team. We need to stop overrating players, see them for what they are, understand their value and role on the team, and figure out of it fits or not. Fvv is not a spring chicken, his flaws have been apparent for years now, and for as good as YOU think he Is based on whatever metrics you want to use, it's quite obvious that him in the current role combined with nick nurse's delusion belief on his importance to the team and his physical decline, that he is not worth keeping around.

The league is evolving. If he was an elite and efficient shooter, or was more athletic and a few inches taller, his flaws may be worth sticking with. If this was 10 years ago, he might really have been the kyle lowry of this team. But he's not good enough to build around. He's already said he's not used to playing off ball and has attributed his struggles to that and with the ball he's far too dribble happy and lacks explosiveness and elite court vision to run an offense properly. These are fatal flaws for a guard of his stature.


It has nothing to do with an unwavering defence because it's FVV. There have been countless posts/topics on this board flat-out lying about his overall numbers or play on any given night all season while there has been a new conspiracy theory or two based off of absolutely nothing meaningful every week. I'd be calling out the same BS if people were making up garbage that takes 5 seconds to fact check about OG, Siakam, Scottie, GTJ, Achiuwa, etc.

I literally couldn't care less from a roster standpoint if FVV is with the team or not in 2 weeks as long as we're getting back something worthwhile for him in a trade and/or we're not eventually paying him more than he's worth. Regardless of what YOU think, he's clearly still very impactful and he would be a very good 4th option that can occasionally take over games when he gets hot. This team is trending in a different direction this season though and now might be a good time to deal him as he has been playing much better and recouping some value over the past 20-25 games. More than anything though, I'm starting to hope more and more that he does get traded so this board can stop whining about every damn thing he says or does. But we all know the next victim will be chosen shortly thereafter and it will more than likely be Siakam or Scottie.


The problem with Fred is in bold.

He doesn't think he's a fourth option, and has said he needs the ball in hands to be successful. In his most recent interviews he's deflected blame onto everyone but himself. He is Mr. 'Bet on Yourself,' and that chip on his shoulder, that he needed to go from undrafted to an all-star, has never left and is hurting the team.

Fred thought he was going to be new-Kyle, but it doesn't work when you're not a basketball savant. Guys just end up resenting you. Also, Kyle was a PG that was team-first at all times, Fred is a SG with the ball in his hands. For the sake of everyone, he needs a reset somewhere else, not because he's a bad guy, but because it's not working here and he'll never be able to take a step back.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#82 » by LastNameEver » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:10 pm

The FVV non-apologists have been right all along.
And Im quite sure Scottie doesn't like playing with the guy either.

The one thing about Lowry is that he didn't have an aversion to letting other guys bring the ball up or playing off-ball. If you **** up you would get his rath however.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#83 » by soloxylo » Wed Jan 25, 2023 12:29 pm

C_Money wrote:I know the FVV hate is at an all time high right now, but who the hell wants OG dribbling the ball up the court?


I'd want FVV to take the ball out of his hands too.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#84 » by nikster » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:11 pm

pingpongrac wrote:
Boogie! wrote:
pingpongrac wrote:This board is wildin' and has been for some time now. There have been numerous threads exaggerating FVV's negative on-court and off-court impact he has on the team, but it's a whole new level lately.

A few weeks ago it was "Thad got mad at Scottie because Scottie and GTJ were making fun of FVV" even though it literally had to do with Scottie and GTJ seemingly being nonchalant during halftime warm-ups. Yesterday it was "FVV is the worst ISO scorer in the league" even though a quick search on NBA.com shows that there are 5 worse (1 of which is almost identical) ISO scorers on our team alone. Tonight it is "there is friction between FVV and OG because of something OG said to Nurse 3 years ago" even though there is absolutely no evidence of turmoil between FVV and OG. If only people could point to FVV not following OG on Instagram (like how he doesn't follow Scottie) as more proof that they hate each other's guts.


Like I said before,fvv is not that good To warrant such unwaverable defense. It is this attitude and delusion that is ruining the culture of this team. We need to stop overrating players, see them for what they are, understand their value and role on the team, and figure out of it fits or not. Fvv is not a spring chicken, his flaws have been apparent for years now, and for as good as YOU think he Is based on whatever metrics you want to use, it's quite obvious that him in the current role combined with nick nurse's delusion belief on his importance to the team and his physical decline, that he is not worth keeping around.

The league is evolving. If he was an elite and efficient shooter, or was more athletic and a few inches taller, his flaws may be worth sticking with. If this was 10 years ago, he might really have been the kyle lowry of this team. But he's not good enough to build around. He's already said he's not used to playing off ball and has attributed his struggles to that and with the ball he's far too dribble happy and lacks explosiveness and elite court vision to run an offense properly. These are fatal flaws for a guard of his stature.


It has nothing to do with an unwavering defence because it's FVV. There have been countless posts/topics on this board flat-out lying about his overall numbers or play on any given night all season while there has been a new conspiracy theory or two based off of absolutely nothing meaningful every week. I'd be calling out the same BS if people were making up garbage that takes 5 seconds to fact check about OG, Siakam, Scottie, GTJ, Achiuwa, etc.

I literally couldn't care less from a roster standpoint if FVV is with the team or not in 2 weeks as long as we're getting back something worthwhile for him in a trade and/or we're not eventually paying him more than he's worth. Regardless of what YOU think, he's clearly still very impactful and he would be a very good 4th option that can occasionally take over games when he gets hot. This team is trending in a different direction this season though and now might be a good time to deal him as he has been playing much better and recouping some value over the past 20-25 games. More than anything though, I'm starting to hope more and more that he does get traded so this board can stop whining about every damn thing he says or does. But we all know the next victim will be chosen shortly thereafter and it will more than likely be Siakam or Scottie.

Exactly, these conspiracies are just nuts. They're using a throw away quote from a book a discussing one incident 4 years ago in which OG, the raw sophomore with a terrible handle, was upset Fred demanded to bring up the ball. this was Nurse first season of encouraging players to take up a bigger role and bring up the ball.

This is the proof they can come up with that Fred is a terrible leader who angers teammates and defies the coaching staff. Theres a reason this quote never got any traction prior to now. Such a frenzy to **** on FVV that we get multi page threads blasting him for something that's a flat out lie (worst iso player thread) or completely irrelevant like this one.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#85 » by Mattatron » Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:35 pm

This was back in 2019 I guess, Fred, og, norm everyone was trying to get some minutes and burn to evolve their game. They just want to showcase that they are ready for more minutes, u need that friction, that pushes everyone. If someone ever played any teamsport...this is normal.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#86 » by OakleyDokely » Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:49 pm

It seems from the outside looking in that a cabal exists between Barnes/Gary/OG. It makes sense because those guys are all around the same age and they will have a lot of stuff in common.

When you're struggling to win, there will be tension between groups over roles/shots, I think that's pretty normal in team sports.

This will be one of the more fascinating deadlines/offseasons in a while.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#87 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:49 pm

Klaw22 wrote:This was back in 2019 I guess, Fred, og, norm everyone was trying to get some minutes and burn to evolve their game. They just want to showcase that they are ready for more minutes, u need that friction, that pushes everyone. If someone ever played any teamsport...this is normal.


I read it like that. Nurse said we're going to play like this now, and Fred just continued to do what he's taught to do. This team also had Lowry that also always did this. OG thought things were going to be different. He went through the proper channel and it seems like Nurse did nothing about it. If it were me I'd be mad at the coach.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#88 » by deeps6x » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:52 pm

Damn, all of this FVV bashing really makes it seem like Freddy should be signing that 4 year extension offer (at a reasonable rate, despite what he thinks he is actually worth), like right now, before his reputation gets trashed even more.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#89 » by Duffman100 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:59 pm

deeps6x wrote:Damn, all of this FVV bashing really makes it seem like Freddy should be signing that 4 year extension offer (at a reasonable rate, despite what he thinks he is actually worth), like right now, before his reputation gets trashed even more.


If Fred signs an extension, I might retire again.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#90 » by ItsDanger » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:00 pm

Amount of Fred support has declined rapidly here in the last month . Good work everyone!
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#91 » by Mikistan » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:01 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
deeps6x wrote:Damn, all of this FVV bashing really makes it seem like Freddy should be signing that 4 year extension offer (at a reasonable rate, despite what he thinks he is actually worth), like right now, before his reputation gets trashed even more.


If Fred signs an extension, I might retire again.

TWO club in shambles right now
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#92 » by Duffman100 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:03 pm

Mikistan wrote:
Duffman100 wrote:
deeps6x wrote:Damn, all of this FVV bashing really makes it seem like Freddy should be signing that 4 year extension offer (at a reasonable rate, despite what he thinks he is actually worth), like right now, before his reputation gets trashed even more.


If Fred signs an extension, I might retire again.

TWO club in shambles right now


You can only have one or the other! :lol:
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#93 » by Raps in 4 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:03 pm

Duffman100 wrote:
deeps6x wrote:Damn, all of this FVV bashing really makes it seem like Freddy should be signing that 4 year extension offer (at a reasonable rate, despite what he thinks he is actually worth), like right now, before his reputation gets trashed even more.


If Fred signs an extension, I might retire again.


:lol:
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#94 » by God Squad » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:07 pm

Reading that $hit made me sick. No wonder our chemistry has been awful all season. . Like wtf

"FVV is the new Lowry"

F no.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#95 » by God Squad » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:08 pm

It's sooo OG to walk by and just say

"He's still doing it"

and keep on moving.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#96 » by WaltFrazier » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:09 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Klaw22 wrote:This was back in 2019 I guess, Fred, og, norm everyone was trying to get some minutes and burn to evolve their game. They just want to showcase that they are ready for more minutes, u need that friction, that pushes everyone. If someone ever played any teamsport...this is normal.


I read it like that. Nurse said we're going to play like this now, and Fred just continued to do what he's taught to do. This team also had Lowry that also always did this. OG thought things were going to be different. He went through the proper channel and it seems like Nurse did nothing about it. If it were me I'd be mad at the coach.

I'm a Fred critic but this sounds right. As I've posted before I read the book back in 2020 and thought it was interesting but not a huge indictment. I would quibble with the idea that Kyle also did the same as Fred though. In 2019 especially he changed his approach to passing the ball ahead, not always bringing it up on the dribble. He really allowed the team to run this way. In Miami broadcasts now you hear the term "pitch aheads" to describe Kyle's headmanning the ball, he is known for that.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#97 » by raptor jesus » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:26 pm

I thought I noticed an instance of this in the 4th Q vs the Knicks, where Precious hit a striding Scottie to start the break instead of FVV standing under the basket, and FVV - appeared - to sulk up the court:

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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#98 » by LBJKB24MJ23 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:34 pm

C_Money wrote:I know the FVV hate is at an all time high right now, but who the hell wants OG dribbling the ball up the court?


i do. so he can rack up the TOs and then know he's not the guy to handle the ball.

sometimes you gotta let them fail for them to understand what not to do, even if its over and over again. better in his early part of his career than later.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#99 » by God Squad » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:43 pm

raptor jesus wrote:I thought I noticed an instance of this in the 4th Q vs the Knicks, where Precious hit a striding Scottie to start the break instead of FVV standing under the basket, and FVV - appeared - to sulk up the court:

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Yeah I admittedly missed a fair amount of games this year. But it's becoming abundantly clear that FVV has an issue with the longboi idea and isn't okay with handing duties to OG/Scottie. Like I know he's been awful for the most part of 1.5 years. But I didn't expect this.
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Re: Excerpt from Nurse's book highlighting player concerns with FVV 

Post#100 » by Kurtz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:50 pm

God Squad wrote:Reading that $hit made me sick. No wonder our chemistry has been awful all season. . Like wtf

"FVV is the new Lowry"

F no.


This book is about our championship season.
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