RealGM

Scottie Barnes. Some conversations we have to have about him:

- Talent: The second most talented player we've drafted in franchise history (behind Vince). A complete star from start to finish.
- Development: Has developed as a spot up 3pt shooter which seemed like the last thing he'd improve on when he was drafted. Looks like he can just get amazing at whatever he wants. That's superstar ****!
- Professionalism: All the murmurs from the team the last 1.5+ years seem to point to him not being a complete professional (yet). Does he have a workmanlike approach to the game? The way he flicks his switch on and off is interesting. Is that a superstar trait or a frustrating star trait?
- 4th Quarter: Real stars show up in the fourth quarter. Scottie does that and that's a great sign. Is it worrying that it almost seems like his switch if "off" until he wants it to be "on". Is he a mature enough star that he can afford to have an on/off switch?
- Chemistry: He doesn't seem to like veteran PGs. He and Fred didn't get along. But also it seems like he doesn't like Dennis either? You can say that Fred took too many pull up threes and that's **** annoying, fine. He also talks too much, for some (but not Sengun, who just went on a podcast to praise Fred's coaching and leadership). However, Dennis passes up quite a lot of shots to keep Darko's philosophy in place. He sometimes swings it too much. It just seems like Scottie doesn't like him. This is speculation, but that's the vibe I'm getting. I see it as a red flag when a franchise star doesn't get along with veteran PGs. Would he have feuded with Kyle? Kyle was a basketball genius in his prime. Again, this is a question not an accusation. I don't know what happens behind closed doors. I just know I've seen Scottie look Dennis off on obvious passes many times. The body language between them doesn't look lovely.
- Time and Place: Is he on the Raptors at the right time and place? Masai kind of implied that he knows that Scottie will be pushing to be on a real contender soon ("I've had many conversations with him about that"). Is Scottie going to sign a rookie max and then ask for a trade? We have a lot of the leverage in this scenario but we know that stars can ask out at any point.
- Team-Up (following from above): Stars like to team up with their best buds. Is Scottie going to draw Cade or whomever to join the raptors, or is he going to join them and ditch us?

Player Comparisons:
- In terms of ERA: If Pascal was like Bosh, is Scottie like Bargnani? Will we hitch our wagon to him and waste another 3 years on the treadmill? This is purely a conversation about the cycles of NBA teams. Bargnani was never anywhere near Scottie as an NBA player. However, we also need to look around and see the amount of offensive talent in the league at the moment and realize that being really really good doesn't mean that much anymore.
- Play Style - Kawhi? Draymond? Josh Smith? Lamar Odom?: Sooner than we think, we need to come up with a decision on where we think Scottie sits in that list of players, in terms of role and tier. Can he find an offensive arsenal as unstoppable as Kawhi? Can he be the plug and play beast that Draymond would be? Is he a more talented and realized version of Lamar Odom or Josh Smith? What tier of star is he?

It seems clear that the franchise has chosen its course for this season - Find out who Scottie is. The first half of tonight's game, very little Scottie bully/iso ball. We already learned our lesson from Pascal. Yes, that game can get you some wins in the regular season, but once you get to the playoffs, you need to be able to attack from the perimeter. The first half we asked Scottie to be a perimeter player. He sucked. The fourth quarter we let him go at Terence Mann, Amir Coffey and whomever to stack up some points and keep us from getting blown out completely. I've seen tanking/developing teams before and it's pretty obvious what we're doing at this point. We want to know what kind of players we have.

Can Scottie be a #1 Point of Attack option? We have to make up our minds ASAP. What we know we don't want is wasting another 3-5 years wondering like we did with the FVV/Pascal/OG core.

PS - By the way, we're now getting rid of all our 6'9 guys that can't dribble or pass. Why didn't we just get rid of 1-2 while those three were around and see how they would do with a couple playmakers on the team?

Let me know your thoughts!

It really feels like this could go either way. I'd say by year 3, it should be obvious what your game is in the NBA. With Scottie it still feels like there's a lot of untapped potential. I'm really confident that he can improve his handle enough to be a perimeter attacker, instead of relying on bullyball.

The recent quote from Darko about how Scottie wouldn't listen to what Thad has to say unless he's playing next to him sounds like he's still not really approaching his opportunity with the right mindset.

ATLTimekeeper wrote:It really feels like this could go either way. I'd say by year 3, it should be obvious what your game is in the NBA. With Scottie it still feels like there's a lot of untapped potential. I'm really confident that he can improve his handle enough to be a perimeter attacker, instead of relying on bullyball.

The recent quote from Darko about how Scottie wouldn't listen to what Thad has to say unless he's playing next to him sounds like he's still not really approaching his opportunity with the right mindset.

Yeah the smoke / fire around maturity is the only really concerning thing. He should be absorbing from everyone.

Where was this quote from Darko about Scottie. I must have missed it

ATLTimekeeper wrote:It really feels like this could go either way. I'd say by year 3, it should be obvious what your game is in the NBA. With Scottie it still feels like there's a lot of untapped potential. I'm really confident that he can improve his handle enough to be a perimeter attacker, instead of relying on bullyball.

The recent quote from Darko about how Scottie wouldn't listen to what Thad has to say unless he's playing next to him sounds like he's still not really approaching his opportunity with the right mindset.

Way to misinterpret the quote:



He's just saying that Scottie picks up more from Thad when he's actually playing because of his on-court leadership.

Reaks like CB4 all over again where we focus on one star who can only win as a compliment to other stars, especially into a rushed, poorly planned rebuild.

We'll see? Hope some things fall into place in a few years, but we'll need a hell of alot of luck to bring in supporting talent including Scotties development.

refshateRaps wrote:Reaks like CB4 all over again where we focus on one star who can only win as a compliment to other stars, especially into a rushed, poorly planned rebuild.

We'll see? Hope some things fall into place in a few years, but we'll need a hell of alot of luck to bring in supporting talent including Scotties development.

Scottie is a much more skilled player than Bosh was.

Raps in 4 wrote:

refshateRaps wrote:Reaks like CB4 all over again where we focus on one star who can only win as a compliment to other stars, especially into a rushed, poorly planned rebuild.

We'll see? Hope some things fall into place in a few years, but we'll need a hell of alot of luck to bring in supporting talent including Scotties development.

Scottie is a much more skilled player than Bosh was.

I have no doubts Scottie will max out his potential here if healthy, but alot of doubt regarding this rebuild and the behavior of the FO.

We give one player the keys was my point. Like Demar, Bosh, Pascal etc. Of course he'll mature. But we'll need so much luck to contend and this rebuild was poorly planned.

Raps in 4 wrote:

ATLTimekeeper wrote:It really feels like this could go either way. I'd say by year 3, it should be obvious what your game is in the NBA. With Scottie it still feels like there's a lot of untapped potential. I'm really confident that he can improve his handle enough to be a perimeter attacker, instead of relying on bullyball.

The recent quote from Darko about how Scottie wouldn't listen to what Thad has to say unless he's playing next to him sounds like he's still not really approaching his opportunity with the right mindset.

Way to misinterpret the quote:

Read on Twitter

He's just saying that Scottie is learning more from Thad's on-court leadership

And look who rushed to agree with ATL with the +1s, before fact checking the full quote. Hilarious because one of them always loves to get on other posters for taking quotes out of context when it relates to non-Scottie Raptors.

I'd love for someone to lay out what exactly the "fire" is when it comes to his apparent lack of "maturity". No bringing up anything from past seasons though, has to be tangible things from this season. We all said coming into the season, new year new Scottie.

He’s got to mature and he’s still got a lot of work to do. All the necessary tools are there—talent, size, athleticism, flair, charisma—but he needs to work on some of that intangible stuff. The Raptors have invested in a ton of mentorship for him, so now it’s really up to him. He can become a legendary player if he’s really really committed, or he can become a guy who makes a handful of all-star games and doesn’t really have a standout career. It’s really up to him at this point. Can he be receptive to coaching and mentorship? Will he bust his ass even more in the offseason? Hopefully this losing is humbling for him. Being a natural got him this far but to get to that next level he’s going to have to get really serious about his profession.

What ATL said.

Raps in 4 wrote:

refshateRaps wrote:Reaks like CB4 all over again where we focus on one star who can only win as a compliment to other stars, especially into a rushed, poorly planned rebuild.

We'll see? Hope some things fall into place in a few years, but we'll need a hell of alot of luck to bring in supporting talent including Scotties development.

Scottie is a much more skilled player than Bosh was.

Bosh ultimately didn’t have the physical tools—wasn’t strong enough, and couldn’t sustain with added weight. He was just a guy with an extremely quick first step and a money midrange jumper.

Scottie should probably watch a lot of Julius Randle tape, since he's been playing with Brunson. He does so many things well, but perhaps he should look to dominate the boards and his matchup and be a playmaker second. Let Quickley focus on distributing, while he is in constant attack mode.

I think, believe it or not, he and Banchero are suffering from the same thing. These guys are trying to be Lebron-like, when they should be Randle or Tatum like.

Nah, putting “Bargnani” for Barnes in the “Player Comparison” section is CRAZY. Nothing like Bargnani in any sort of way, in terms of player or “era” or whatever

this fan base has never had a prospect like Barnes since Vince, and many fans weren’t there for that so it doesn’t know what it’s watching here

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:

ATLTimekeeper wrote:It really feels like this could go either way. I'd say by year 3, it should be obvious what your game is in the NBA. With Scottie it still feels like there's a lot of untapped potential. I'm really confident that he can improve his handle enough to be a perimeter attacker, instead of relying on bullyball.

The recent quote from Darko about how Scottie wouldn't listen to what Thad has to say unless he's playing next to him sounds like he's still not really approaching his opportunity with the right mindset.

Way to misinterpret the quote:

Read on Twitter

He's just saying that Scottie is learning more from Thad's on-court leadership

And look who rushed to agree with ATL with the +1s, before fact checking the full quote. Hilarious because one of them always loves to get on other posters for taking quotes out of context when it relates to non-Scottie Raptors.

I'd love for someone to lay out what exactly the "fire" is when it comes to his apparent lack of "maturity". No bringing up anything from past seasons though, has to be tangible things from this season. We all said coming into the season, new year new Scottie.

God the constant crying and tears is just too much.

Forgot, can’t criticize Scottie in any way.

Duffman100 wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
Way to misinterpret the quote:

Read on Twitter

He's just saying that Scottie is learning more from Thad's on-court leadership

And look who rushed to agree with ATL with the +1s, before fact checking the full quote. Hilarious because one of them always loves to get on other posters for taking quotes out of context when it relates to non-Scottie Raptors.

I'd love for someone to lay out what exactly the "fire" is when it comes to his apparent lack of "maturity". No bringing up anything from past seasons though, has to be tangible things from this season. We all said coming into the season, new year new Scottie.

God the constant crying and tears is just too much.

Forgot, can’t criticize Scottie in any way.

criticizing is fine

making stuff up and misquoting should get called out, and did

KP730 wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:And look who rushed to agree with ATL with the +1s, before fact checking the full quote. Hilarious because one of them always loves to get on other posters for taking quotes out of context when it relates to non-Scottie Raptors.

I'd love for someone to lay out what exactly the "fire" is when it comes to his apparent lack of "maturity". No bringing up anything from past seasons though, has to be tangible things from this season. We all said coming into the season, new year new Scottie.

God the constant crying and tears is just too much.

Forgot, can’t criticize Scottie in any way.

criticizing is fine

making stuff up and misquoting should get called out, and did

Criticizing is clearly not fine.

When Scottie has had reference to maturity issues, clashing with veterans etc…. It’s the veterans fault not Scottie. He’s young. Etc.

When Scottie was playing with better players, they were overshadowing him and not letting him blossom.

Now it’s that Scottie doesn’t have the right talent around him to let him be a star.

The weird cult of excuse culture around him is beyond bizarre.

Love Scottie. Amazing talent. But it’s fair to point out warts

Duffman100 wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Raps in 4 wrote:
Way to misinterpret the quote:

Read on Twitter

He's just saying that Scottie is learning more from Thad's on-court leadership

And look who rushed to agree with ATL with the +1s, before fact checking the full quote. Hilarious because one of them always loves to get on other posters for taking quotes out of context when it relates to non-Scottie Raptors.

I'd love for someone to lay out what exactly the "fire" is when it comes to his apparent lack of "maturity". No bringing up anything from past seasons though, has to be tangible things from this season. We all said coming into the season, new year new Scottie.

God the constant crying and tears is just too much.

Forgot, can’t criticize Scottie in any way.

I think it's the fans who miss the We the North era who need to stop with the crying and tears. It's time to look forward and embrace the Scottie Barnes era, which could produce something the We the North era never did, multiple seasons of legitimate championship contention.

Need to look at the positives. Scottie has made a massive leap from 0.4 BPM and 1.6 VORP last season to 4.3 BPM and 2.5 VORP so far this season. Masai also IMO did well on both the OG and Siakam trades from a retool perspective. In each one he got 3 assets under team control beyond the 2024-25 season to add to Scottie+Gradey+Poeltl (IQ+RJ+the 3 FRPs and early 2nd). All of these assets should grow in value alongside Scottie.

Masai will probably look to accumulate more of these types of assets over the next couple of seasons, and by 2025-26 we should be an asset rich team primed to be a top 6 seed in the East in the 1st year of Scottie's rookie max deal. Once that rookie max kicks in it starts the clock on having to be competitive to keep Scottie happy or else he demands a trade.

Jerry Lucas wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:

Jerry Lucas wrote:And look who rushed to agree with ATL with the +1s, before fact checking the full quote. Hilarious because one of them always loves to get on other posters for taking quotes out of context when it relates to non-Scottie Raptors.

I'd love for someone to lay out what exactly the "fire" is when it comes to his apparent lack of "maturity". No bringing up anything from past seasons though, has to be tangible things from this season. We all said coming into the season, new year new Scottie.

God the constant crying and tears is just too much.

Forgot, can’t criticize Scottie in any way.

I think it's the fans who miss the We the North era who need to stop with the crying and tears. It's time to look forward and embrace the Scottie Barnes era, which could produce something the We the North era never did, multiple seasons of legitimate championship contention.

Need to look at the positives. Scottie has made a massive leap from 0.4 BPM and 1.6 VORP last season to 4.3 BPM and 2.5 VORP so far this season. Masai also IMO did well on both the OG and Siakam trades from a retool perspective, in each one he got 3 assets under team control beyond the 2024-25 season to add to Scottie+Gradey+Poeltl (IQ+RJ+the 3 FRPs and early 2nd). All of these assets should grow in value alongside Scottie.

Masai will probably look to accumulate more of these types of assets over the next couple of seasons, and by 2025-26 we should be an asset rich team primed to be a top 6 seed in the East in the 1st year of Scottie's rookie max deal. Once that rookie max kicks in it starts the clock on having to be competitive to keep Scottie happy or else he demands a trade.

Agreed on all of it. Love Scottie and want him to be a leading guy on this team.

I’m not entirely convinced it’s the “Scottie Era” or it’s a new era where Scottie is a part of it.

Duffman100 wrote:

KP730 wrote:

Duffman100 wrote:
God the constant crying and tears is just too much.

Forgot, can’t criticize Scottie in any way.

criticizing is fine

making stuff up and misquoting should get called out, and did

Criticizing is clearly not fine.

When Scottie has had reference to maturity issues, clashing with veterans etc…. It’s the veterans fault not Scottie. He’s young. Etc.

When Scottie was playing with better players, they were overshadowing him and not letting him blossom.

Now it’s that Scottie doesn’t have the right talent around him to let him be a star.

The weird cult of excuse culture around him is beyond bizarre.

Love Scottie. Amazing talent. But it’s fair to point out warts

In this thread, the issue pointed out was the misquote of Darko used to criticize Barnes - and that ought to get called out

The rest of this stuff, I don’t really know what that’s about but yeah most of it sounds ridiculous to me