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I know we won a championship and that is the end goal but whenever Demar rehashes the trade situation and he was gonna be here forever. It still breaks my heart that we could not win the title with him. I get all the we couldnt but maybe its a fairytale to have won the title with the a guy from Compton who came to a new country and accepted as his own when we sucked and was all about it. Especially when Kawhi is the most hired gun robot personality in the league(not focused on that). Just always gives me a little pit and sadness that we had to do the most loyal person in our history dirty.

Anyways would like to see the guy get a chip before its over

Rest of the team being same

DD leading the team vs VC leading the team

Which achieves more?

DelAbbot wrote:Rest of the team being same

DD leading the team vs VC leading the team

Which achieves more?

Vince.

Demar was a great regular season player for us but really couldn't do much in the playoffs for his career. When things got tight, tougher defenders he couldn't navigate as well.

DelAbbot wrote:Rest of the team being same

DD leading the team vs VC leading the team

Which achieves more?

Prime VC was a much better player.

Got nothing but love for DeMar, but he really had to start this with Draymond Green? That dude sucks.

2001 playoffs, rewatch that

DelAbbot wrote:Rest of the team being same

DD leading the team vs VC leading the team

Which achieves more?

A bit of a miss not to get Masai Ujiri on episode 1. That has built in audience expectations from around the NBA + Raptors fans which could have helped the debut. Maybe Masai for episode 10 or some landmark to talk about the trade, his career, fatherhood and etc.

Draymond Green's a little played out. There's probably more interesting interviews he could have (not Lowry) that would pop the viewership.

Raps in 4 wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:Rest of the team being same

DD leading the team vs VC leading the team

Which achieves more?

Prime VC was a much better player.

Prime VC is better than most players who have played in the NBA, it's not a shot at Demar at all, but it's no contest. Vince had all the skills and physical tools to be an actual all time player, just no drive.

At this rate every player in the league is going to have a podcast, lol.

It was cool at first but now its getting boring.

In retrospect it would have been interesting to see what our ceiling was if the trade never happened.

Demar continued to improve and has become much more efficient and a better playmaker compared to when he was with us.

We would have kept Poeltl and Delon.

You would have a new coach in Nurse who was a big upgrade over Casey and smartly split JV from Ibaka. I think the Raptors still make the Gasol trade which would have helped us a lot defensively.

I don't think we would be able to beat Philly or Milwaukee in 2019, but I do think that team would have a decent shot at making the finals in 2020.

TheGeneral99 wrote:At this rate every player in the league is going to have a podcast, lol.

It was cool at first but now its getting boring.

In retrospect it would have been interesting to see what our ceiling was if the trade never happened.

Demar continued to improve and has become much more efficient and a better playmaker compared to when he was with us.

We would have kept Poeltl and Delon.

You would have a new coach in Nurse who was a big upgrade over Casey and smartly split JV from Ibaka. I think the Raptors still make the Gasol trade which would have helped us a lot defensively.

I don't think we would be able to beat Philly or Milwaukee in 2019, but I do think that team would have a decent shot at making the finals in 2020.

DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

Scase wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:At this rate every player in the league is going to have a podcast, lol.

It was cool at first but now its getting boring.

In retrospect it would have been interesting to see what our ceiling was if the trade never happened.

Demar continued to improve and has become much more efficient and a better playmaker compared to when he was with us.

We would have kept Poeltl and Delon.

You would have a new coach in Nurse who was a big upgrade over Casey and smartly split JV from Ibaka. I think the Raptors still make the Gasol trade which would have helped us a lot defensively.

I don't think we would be able to beat Philly or Milwaukee in 2019, but I do think that team would have a decent shot at making the finals in 2020.

DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

1) You would have had the emergence of an all-star two way player in Siakam to take the load away from Demar (few expected Siakam to take such a leap after 2018).

2) OG continued to improve and emerge as an elite 3+D player.

3) You would have had a better coach in Nurse that could better mask deficiencies and strategically deal with match-ups. Huge upgrade over Casey.

4) If we traded for Gasol we have had a very high-level interior defender.

5) You keep your depth with a back-up like Poeltl (who could also be used for trade purposes for another 3+D player).

6) No Lebron in the East.

I think in 2020 that team would have a decent shot. We took the Celtics to game 7 with Siakam playing like horse ****. That being said our window would start to close with the decline of Lowry in 2022 and not being able to grab a great young guy like Barnes.

Raptors Career, playoffs:

Vince: 15 games, 25.7 PPG, 6.4 REB, 5.0 AST, .415 FG, .366 3PT, .810 FT, .513 TS
Demar: 51 games, 21.9 PPG, 4.4 REB, 3.5 AST, .410 FG, .235 3PT, .849 FT, .497 TS
Lowry: 84 games, 17.1 PPG, 4.8 REB, 6.3 AST, .424 FG, .345 3PT, .797 FT, .554 TS

TheGeneral99 wrote:

Scase wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:At this rate every player in the league is going to have a podcast, lol.

It was cool at first but now its getting boring.

In retrospect it would have been interesting to see what our ceiling was if the trade never happened.

Demar continued to improve and has become much more efficient and a better playmaker compared to when he was with us.

We would have kept Poeltl and Delon.

You would have a new coach in Nurse who was a big upgrade over Casey and smartly split JV from Ibaka. I think the Raptors still make the Gasol trade which would have helped us a lot defensively.

I don't think we would be able to beat Philly or Milwaukee in 2019, but I do think that team would have a decent shot at making the finals in 2020.

DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

1) You would have had the emergence of an all-star two way player in Siakam to take the load away from Demar (few expected Siakam to take such a leap after 2018).

2) OG continued to improve and emerge as an elite 3+D player.

3) You would have had a better coach in Nurse that could better mask deficiencies and strategically deal with match-ups. Huge upgrade over Casey.

4) If we traded for Gasol we have had a very high-level interior defender.

5) You keep your depth with a back-up like Poeltl (who could also be used for trade purposes for another 3+D player).

6) No Lebron in the East.

I think in 2020 that team would have a decent shot. We took the Celtics to game 7 with Siakam playing like horse ****. That being said our window would start to close with the decline of Lowry in 2022 and not being able to grab a great young guy like Barnes.

That's a whole lot of ifs, I still stand by my statement that DD is a career playoff choker. You put DD on that run it back team, I don't think they go any further. There's only one ball.

DD likely hampers FVVs development, who was absolutely needed for that 2020 run. DD averages 15+ FGA, and that series had FVV with 17fga, siakam with 15, KL with 13+. Where do his shots come from?

Also the games we lost that Boston series were all games we shot horrendously from 3. DD makes that worse. It's not just slotting in a guy that puts up 20ppg, it's how he does it.

TheGeneral99 wrote:

Scase wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:At this rate every player in the league is going to have a podcast, lol.

It was cool at first but now its getting boring.

In retrospect it would have been interesting to see what our ceiling was if the trade never happened.

Demar continued to improve and has become much more efficient and a better playmaker compared to when he was with us.

We would have kept Poeltl and Delon.

You would have a new coach in Nurse who was a big upgrade over Casey and smartly split JV from Ibaka. I think the Raptors still make the Gasol trade which would have helped us a lot defensively.

I don't think we would be able to beat Philly or Milwaukee in 2019, but I do think that team would have a decent shot at making the finals in 2020.

DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

1) You would have had the emergence of an all-star two way player in Siakam to take the load away from Demar (few expected Siakam to take such a leap after 2018).

2) OG continued to improve and emerge as an elite 3+D player.

3) You would have had a better coach in Nurse that could better mask deficiencies and strategically deal with match-ups. Huge upgrade over Casey.

4) If we traded for Gasol we have had a very high-level interior defender.

5) You keep your depth with a back-up like Poeltl (who could also be used for trade purposes for another 3+D player).

6) No Lebron in the East.

I think in 2020 that team would have a decent shot. We took the Celtics to game 7 with Siakam playing like horse ****. That being said our window would start to close with the decline of Lowry in 2022 and not being able to grab a great young guy like Barnes.

Well I have always been of the opinion that Demar is empty stats and is not really a positive player. So really, the no defense, no shooting, middling efficiency player is probably not gonna help much.

TheGeneral99 wrote:

Scase wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:At this rate every player in the league is going to have a podcast, lol.

It was cool at first but now its getting boring.

In retrospect it would have been interesting to see what our ceiling was if the trade never happened.

Demar continued to improve and has become much more efficient and a better playmaker compared to when he was with us.

We would have kept Poeltl and Delon.

You would have a new coach in Nurse who was a big upgrade over Casey and smartly split JV from Ibaka. I think the Raptors still make the Gasol trade which would have helped us a lot defensively.

I don't think we would be able to beat Philly or Milwaukee in 2019, but I do think that team would have a decent shot at making the finals in 2020.

DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

1) You would have had the emergence of an all-star two way player in Siakam to take the load away from Demar (few expected Siakam to take such a leap after 2018).

2) OG continued to improve and emerge as an elite 3+D player.

3) You would have had a better coach in Nurse that could better mask deficiencies and strategically deal with match-ups. Huge upgrade over Casey.

4) If we traded for Gasol we have had a very high-level interior defender.

5) You keep your depth with a back-up like Poeltl (who could also be used for trade purposes for another 3+D player).

6) No Lebron in the East.

I think in 2020 that team would have a decent shot. We took the Celtics to game 7 with Siakam playing like horse ****. That being said our window would start to close with the decline of Lowry in 2022 and not being able to grab a great young guy like Barnes.

We wouldn’t beat the 76ers with DD instead of Kawhi. Bucks also would’ve bodied us. Heck, I doubt we win 3 times at GSW with him.

Prime VC was a way better player but I doubt he gets us the final either with the same team. He lacked killer instinct.

Kawhi could turn it on at will. We’d be struggling offensively and then he’d start a run. Plus he was a beast defensively.

I went to game 3 where Vince scored 50 vs Philly in 2001 and that was the best game I’d ever seen until I watched the kawhi playoff run.
Vince is still the 2nd best player to ever play for the raptors behind kawhi.

2019nbachamps wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:

Scase wrote:DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

1) You would have had the emergence of an all-star two way player in Siakam to take the load away from Demar (few expected Siakam to take such a leap after 2018).

2) OG continued to improve and emerge as an elite 3+D player.

3) You would have had a better coach in Nurse that could better mask deficiencies and strategically deal with match-ups. Huge upgrade over Casey.

4) If we traded for Gasol we have had a very high-level interior defender.

5) You keep your depth with a back-up like Poeltl (who could also be used for trade purposes for another 3+D player).

6) No Lebron in the East.

I think in 2020 that team would have a decent shot. We took the Celtics to game 7 with Siakam playing like horse ****. That being said our window would start to close with the decline of Lowry in 2022 and not being able to grab a great young guy like Barnes.

We wouldn’t beat the 76ers with DD instead of Kawhi. Bucks also would’ve bodied us. Heck, I doubt we win 3 times at GSW with him.

Prime VC was a way better player but I doubt he gets us the final either with the same team. He lacked killer instinct.

Kawhi could turn it on at will. We’d be struggling offensively and then he’d start a run. Plus he was a beast defensively.

I acknowledged we probably don't win in 2019 with that team, but I think 2020 was a real possibility of making the finals, although probably lose to the Lakers. If we took Boston to game 7 that year without Demar and Poeltl, what makes you think we couldn't beat Boston?

Lowry, Demar, OG, Pascal, Gasol, Ibaka, Poeltl, Fred, Norm is just an elite team...easily a 55-60 win team between 2019 and 2022. Lebron was out of the East so in my opinion the East was fair game.

That's a team that features a top two way PG in Lowry, an all-star caliber iso mid-range player in Demar who was getting better, a rising all-star caliber player in Siakam who can guard anyone, a rising 3+D player in OG and the bench would be arguably the best in the league. It's a great team.

Obviously Kawhi is an elite all-time great and a significant upgrade over DD, but our team was a 59 win team in 2018 and on pace for 60 wins again in 2020 (despite losing Kawhi+Green and not having a lot of depth that year).

vulture wrote:I went to game 3 where Vince scored 50 vs Philly in 2001 and that was the best game I’d ever seen until I watched the kawhi playoff run.
Vince is still the 2nd best player to ever play for the raptors behind kawhi.

Vince was one of the most talented players I've ever seen and unbelievable when he wanted to be, but that was the problem...he didn't always have that drive in him. His competitiveness was inconsistent, he was often too passive, he was too nice, he didn't play with high intensity every game, he often settled for jumpers instead of driving, would shy away from contact, wasn't a good leader, took plays off defensively etc.

Apart from 2001 playoffs, what other great playoff series did he have in his 7 years with our team? I'll give you a hint...NONE.

So while Vince at his PEAK was the 2nd best player we ever had after Kawhi, I cannot put Vince over a guy like Lowry who between 2013 and 2021 competed every game like it was his last, did all the little things, brought all the intangibles, completed like a dog on both ends, made winning plays, and actually was a great leader who led us to the greatest era in Raptors history. For all the height and talent Lowry lacked compared to VC, he replaced it with IQ, heart, competitiveness, intangibles, work-ethic, drive and leadership. When we needed a charge Lowry was there, when we needed a timely deflection Lowry was there, when we needed a dagger 3 Lowry was there, when we needed a key rebound Lowry was there...the dude was just incredible.

LOL more podcasts aka recorded hangouts

At least Bosh was more creative in his time with his scripts.

Scase wrote:

TheGeneral99 wrote:

Scase wrote:DD was worse in the playoffs than the regular season basically every year of his career, we weren't making it to the finals with him as the #1 option.

1) You would have had the emergence of an all-star two way player in Siakam to take the load away from Demar (few expected Siakam to take such a leap after 2018).

2) OG continued to improve and emerge as an elite 3+D player.

3) You would have had a better coach in Nurse that could better mask deficiencies and strategically deal with match-ups. Huge upgrade over Casey.

4) If we traded for Gasol we have had a very high-level interior defender.

5) You keep your depth with a back-up like Poeltl (who could also be used for trade purposes for another 3+D player).

6) No Lebron in the East.

I think in 2020 that team would have a decent shot. We took the Celtics to game 7 with Siakam playing like horse ****. That being said our window would start to close with the decline of Lowry in 2022 and not being able to grab a great young guy like Barnes.

That's a whole lot of ifs, I still stand by my statement that DD is a career playoff choker. You put DD on that run it back team, I don't think they go any further. There's only one ball.

DD likely hampers FVVs development, who was absolutely needed for that 2020 run. DD averages 15+ FGA, and that series had FVV with 17fga, siakam with 15, KL with 13+. Where do his shots come from?

Also the games we lost that Boston series were all games we shot horrendously from 3. DD makes that worse. It's not just slotting in a guy that puts up 20ppg, it's how he does it.

they could have offered Fred + Norm + Jakob + a first round pick for Kawhi instead of DeMar. not sure the Spurs accept that at that time. seems like they wanted DeMar. but this lineup is still fire.

Lowry
DeRozan
Leonard
Siakam
Gasol

with Ibaka + OG.

team lacks depth especially since OG was injured, but let's assume there's a butterfly effect here and he isn't. that 7 man lineup is probably still as good if not better than the championship team. Lowry and DeRozan needed an alpha like Kawhi to lead them. Fred played the worst round of NBA playoffs i've ever seen against Philly. he redeemed himself post Fred Jr. but man was he **** in round 2. Danny was pretty awful in the playoffs too.