RealGM

Barnes' stats in his third season are already competitive with those of the Raptors' best players in their best seasons...
But how much fuel is in Scotty Burns' tank?
How much further can he progress?
Is there a chance in his career that the public will begin to consider him the greatest Raptor in franchise history?

No

This thread will go well. (not knocking you OP)

Is there a chance? Yes, absolutely. If he takes another leap forward next year, and over his Raps career we win the LOB a couple of times, he'll definitely be in that conversation.

Is it a guarantee? Not even close.

(There is also a chance that Dick will end up the greatest player in franchise history, or whoever we draft with the 31st pick this year, or, or or... that's the thing about the future)

The pace and scoring in the nba has risen. You also have to include Wins, Loses,and playoffs in your stats. Also 1st nba team selections.

If he stays long enough, he will have most of the stat records, but it's going to come down to team success. If he just puts up stats on mediocre teams he won't be viewed as the GOAT,

Not sure I'd include McGrady in the conversation since his best stats/seasons were on the Magic/Rockets.

Kawhi Leonard in his 3rd NBA season ... 12.8 points per game!

Pascal Siakam ..... 16.9
DeMar DeRozan ... 16.7
Tracy McGrady .... 15.4
Kawhi Leonard .... 12.8
Fred VanVleet ..... 11.0
Kyle Lowry .......... 7.6
Scottie Barnes ... 20.0

Raptors Realtor wrote:Not sure I'd include McGrady in the conversation since his best stats/seasons were on the Magic/Rockets.

Good point, but it doesn't change the point... If those things are taken into account, then Barnes would be even closer to Raptors fans finally accepting him as a potential "the best Raptor ever"!

Statistician MK wrote:Kawhi Leonard in his 3rd NBA season ... 12.8 points per game!

Pascal Siakam ..... 16.9
DeMar DeRozan ... 16.7
Tracy McGrady .... 15.4
Kawhi Leonard .... 12.8
Fred VanVleet ..... 11.0
Kyle Lowry .......... 7.6
Scottie Barnes ... 20.0

Raptors Realtor wrote:Not sure I'd include McGrady in the conversation since his best stats/seasons were on the Magic/Rockets.

Good point, but it doesn't change the point... If those things are taken into account, then Barnes would be even closer to Raptors fans finally accepting him as a potential "the best Raptor ever"!

I wasn't disputing Barnes spot on the Raptors Mt Rushmore, however you did forget Carter's 3rd season points average of 27.6 pts in your reply.

Yes, he will be the future Groat!

He has a good chance to be. It will depend on him continuing to shore up the weaknesses in his game to be more consistent and also whether or not he can be grow in terms of his maturity and mental approach.

While Lowry is the GROAT, he isn't some type of historic all-world talent that other teams have as their greatest so the spot is still wide open if someone like that (or anywhere inbetween) comes along. So Barnes could be but he needs to keep taking leaps forward every offseason for at least next several seasons and have this team turned around fairly quick if that were to be the case. And he needs a running mate or two around his level that he can grow with. Guys we have are good starts but we obviously need more either through internal growth or externally.

I mean the GROAT right now is a guy who was constantly not seen as a true star and was more of a untraditional star player.

So yeah, if Barnes becomes a true star, sticks around in TO for a decade, and has some post-season success I am sure he takes the reign. Depends though, if we win a ring is it because of Barnes or do we sign/draft another guy who pushes us there? Like is Barnes our Lowry or our Kawhi (and does our future "Kawhi" stay for years?).

Let’s see how he does as an alpha in the playoffs setting before making this kind of statement. We had seen Vince, Bosh, DDR and Lowry. Lowry is the greatest Raptor right now not just for his regular season stats, but also his playoff records.

No.
Compared to VC and BOSH who both were superstars already early in their Careers, Barnes hasnt reached that Status yet.

Lowry and DeRozean created the "We the North" era that ended in a Chip (sadly without DeRozean).

These are Big shoes to fill.

I havent even mentioned all the other Raptors Players who left their imprint.

I'm thankful NinjaBro didn't create this thread

There's a chance he could become the GROAT. Much still has to be done before this seems likely.

Kyle Lowry is the GROAT. Looking at his career with the Raptors then I'd say then for Barnes to become the GROAT he would have to:
- have a long career with the Raptors
- Make multiple all star teams
- lead the team in a few all time statistical categories
- win a championship

I think that's it. Easier said then done but certainly possible.

He has a chance, but it's rare to see a franchise GOAT go from the playoffs to a rebuild in his first 3 seasons, then still being around when the team seriously contends again. I'd give him...25% odds at becoming the GROAT. Barring a miraculous playoff run (assuming we're gonna be peaking at 5th-10th for the majority of his extension), if he gets and plays out a full rookie extension, the odds probably go up to 40%. If he stays beyond the extension, then you're looking at like 60-70%, based on his current statistical trajectory.

Even without the Chip, Lowry played 9 seasons in Toronto and was an AS for 6 straight. That's not an easy streak to match, which is why I say you can only seriously answer this question after Barnes plays out a full rookie extension. He will need 4+ AS selections at a minimum, and at least 1 conference final run to be in the conversation.

Above all the counting stats, the one I'll be watching for when picking the GROAT is WS/48, with a nod to longevity.
Lowry avg'd 0.172/48 and had 74.5 total in 9 years.
Barnes avgs 0.107/48 and has 16.4 in 3 years (probably ends season with 19ish?).
For reference during their TO tenure:
Kawhi 0.224/48, 9.5 total
Bosh 0.158/48, 61.8 total
Vince 0.151/48, 47.7 total
Siakam 0.135/48, 44.3 total
FVV 0.127/48, 32.5 total
Demar 0.113/48, 54 total
OG 0.099/48, 23 total

Winning matters, and so far, Barnes hasn't shown enough impact on winning. He's above OG, but behind every other AS we've had so far in WS/48. At his current rate, after 9 years he'll still have fewer total WS than Bosh, who played only 7 seasons here. Barnes is going to have to find more ways to impact WINNING, which may include being more assertive on offense AND defense, as well as becoming a vocal and on-court leader to make sure his teammates are doing what he wants them to do.

Don't get me wrong, Barnes is a wonderful player and he's still developing with a very high ceiling still. But even in this breakout AS season he's got a 0.112WS/48, which is Demar level, except Demar did it for 9 seasons. Side note: Bosh's stats are impressive. He did a lot in those 7 years he was here and probably doesn't get enough credit from fans and in the GROAT conversation.

Could be!

Statistician MK wrote:Barnes' stats in his third season are already competitive with those of the Raptors' best players in their best seasons...
But how much fuel is in Scotty Burns' tank?
How much further can he progress?
Is there a chance in his career that the public will begin to consider him the greatest Raptor in franchise history?

Pull this out of the archives in about 5 to 10 years