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Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:14 pm
by WuTang_CMB
Read on Twitter


At first, the chariot was not harnessed to its greatest possibility. The earliest example, likely from Sumer, was more of a solid-wheel cart drawn by donkeys, used perhaps in war but more likely exclusively as an agricultural tool. But the Hittites and especially the Hyksos saw the possibility for more, and the Hyksos used the chariot to invade and conquer Egypt. At the time, Egypt — then in the decline of its Middle Kingdom — was weak and fragmented, and it was easily conquered. But the chariot still wasn’t being used properly.

Egyptians made the chariot much lighter. Faster. They trained horses specifically to pull chariots at high speeds. They used the lightest wood they could, often acacia, and used spokes to make the wheels as light as possible. There were shocks, making the platform stable enough that an archer could shoot accurately while on the move. With those improvements, Egypt reconquered the Lower Kingdom and even projected its power far into the Middle East. It was the height of Egyptian territorial expansion, coming hot on the heels of its lowest point. And it was all unlocked by optimizing a technology that to that point had never seen its ideal in reality.

Scottie Barnes must be one of the most unique stars in basketball. But, like the chariot, he hasn’t yet been harnessed in a way that fully unlocks his powers.

Most stars qualify as such because they’re just so good at putting the ball in the net. For most wings and forwards like Barnes, such scoring opportunities come via pick and rolls and isolations.

And Barnes does succeed in those playtypes. He spent long stretches last season as a pick-and-roll leader, with sky-high points per chance on such sets — particularly when seeing double picks. He came into the league a polished post and isolation player, and Toronto’s efficiency when Barnes sees the ball in those sets has long been terrific. Yet Barnes has done an uncommon share of his damage in such sets as a passer. In fact, if you isolate such plays to only include direct end-of-possession results (shots and turnovers), Barnes scored below 0.9 points per possession as a pick-and-roll handler and an isolation scorer last season. Both marks were below the league average.

It’s actually incredible, from that point of view, that he was still so efficient in such sets despite scoring at a below-average rate. And there were plenty of reasons why his scoring wasn’t more efficient: a high frequency of double-teams, the ability of defenders to stunt and gap quite liberally without fear of punishment, and opposing game plans that could focus entirely on him without worry. Yet, his scoring improved! In many ways, his improving efficiency on virtually every playtype was a reflection of his improved ability to reach the paint, to threaten defenses as a scorer, to force rotations: more passes only become available to players because of the threats they pose as a scorer. If you can’t score, you don’t have those passes available to you. And Barnes can score — 20 points per game on quite solid efficiency is nothing to scoff at.

The thing is, the best teams have significantly more polished scorers. And in the hardest playtypes, too. In the NBA, there is a difference between a bucket coming off a cut, or a spot-up shot, or in transition — and one that you manufacture from a dead standstill, with all eyes on you. The best players of course need to be able to do all of the above. But the latter category is increasingly overlooked as a necessity on good teams. If you look at the last 10 teams to go to the Finals, every one rostered an isolation leader.


Image

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:16 pm
by Fairview4Life
Oh ok, just one of those.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:26 pm
by TorontoBarneys
And guess what? You aren't getting that from anyone on this roster, and the chance that Scottie turns into an elite 1st option is like 2% or less.

I'm sure Koloko and some internal development will catapult us back into contention, though. :lol:

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:36 pm
by Duffman100
Fairview4Life wrote:Oh ok, just one of those.


LOL honestly.

We need what most teams are currently looking for... no big deal.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:37 pm
by Fairview4Life
Duffman100 wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:Oh ok, just one of those.


LOL honestly.

We need what most teams are currently looking for... no big deal.


Let's just punt every season until we draft...checks notes...the next Steph Curry

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:38 pm
by PhilBlackson
Correct which is why we need to trade Poeltl & ensure no chance of making the PlayIn and giving ourselves the best chance to draft as high as possible to draft a kid with that potential buuuut we won’t so we’ll likely spend the next several years fantasizing about trading for one.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:55 pm
by Senbonzakura
TorontoBarneys wrote:And guess what? You aren't getting that from anyone on this roster, and the chance that Scottie turns into an elite 1st option is like 2% or less.

I'm sure Koloko and some internal development will catapult us back into contention, though. :lol:


This is exactly what I was getting at when I made this thread viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2393347

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:57 pm
by Senbonzakura
TorontoBarneys wrote:And guess what? You aren't getting that from anyone on this roster, and the chance that Scottie turns into an elite 1st option is like 2% or less.

I'm sure Koloko and some internal development will catapult us back into contention, though. :lol:


Yep. A tank is imperative this season to try and get one in the draft, but I fear we've loaded up with too many solid players to tank effectively.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 1:58 pm
by Jerry Lucas
No effing way, are you serious ?? What useful and new information this is from Zatzman !!

Also LOL at Zatman calling Siakam an elite iso scorer.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:00 pm
by Basketball_Jones
Would be interesting if we get a good iso scorer in that sixth man role. I feel like that’s an old school type of player that doesn’t exist anymore. Like a Lou Williams. Guys like that also tend to get more elevated in today’s game (Maxey, Poole). Nwora was potentially one but his athletic profile made defense a nightmare for him to learn.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:00 pm
by Psubs
Trade expirings for Zach Lavine, cash, 2025 1st pick and 2027 1st pick.

Bruce Brown, Chris Boucher, Davion Mitchell and Ochai Agbaji.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:04 pm
by Asif16
Team badly needs too draft that next ISO scorer Star and compliment this core for the next 8-10 years.

Thats why I think tanking this upcoming season is Imperative but I dont think Masai wants too. We'll also be too good to just flat out tank unless we get smacked with injuries early

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:04 pm
by wegotthabeet
Senbonzakura wrote:
TorontoBarneys wrote:And guess what? You aren't getting that from anyone on this roster, and the chance that Scottie turns into an elite 1st option is like 2% or less.

I'm sure Koloko and some internal development will catapult us back into contention, though. :lol:


Yep. A tank is imperative this season to try and get one in the draft, but I fear we've loaded up with too many solid players to tank effectively.


We’re going to land a top pick this year. The Raptors aren’t better than ten teams in the league.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:06 pm
by Asif16
Only other hope besides drafting the next ISO star....is to bring Shai home when his next contract runs up.

I do think Shai wants to play for the Raptors before retiring. I can see him giving OKC his all the next 3 years and then comign home when he's 30

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:12 pm
by Pointgod
WuTang_OG wrote:
Read on Twitter


At first, the chariot was not harnessed to its greatest possibility. The earliest example, likely from Sumer, was more of a solid-wheel cart drawn by donkeys, used perhaps in war but more likely exclusively as an agricultural tool. But the Hittites and especially the Hyksos saw the possibility for more, and the Hyksos used the chariot to invade and conquer Egypt. At the time, Egypt — then in the decline of its Middle Kingdom — was weak and fragmented, and it was easily conquered. But the chariot still wasn’t being used properly.

Egyptians made the chariot much lighter. Faster. They trained horses specifically to pull chariots at high speeds. They used the lightest wood they could, often acacia, and used spokes to make the wheels as light as possible. There were shocks, making the platform stable enough that an archer could shoot accurately while on the move. With those improvements, Egypt reconquered the Lower Kingdom and even projected its power far into the Middle East. It was the height of Egyptian territorial expansion, coming hot on the heels of its lowest point. And it was all unlocked by optimizing a technology that to that point had never seen its ideal in reality.

Scottie Barnes must be one of the most unique stars in basketball. But, like the chariot, he hasn’t yet been harnessed in a way that fully unlocks his powers.

Most stars qualify as such because they’re just so good at putting the ball in the net. For most wings and forwards like Barnes, such scoring opportunities come via pick and rolls and isolations.

And Barnes does succeed in those playtypes. He spent long stretches last season as a pick-and-roll leader, with sky-high points per chance on such sets — particularly when seeing double picks. He came into the league a polished post and isolation player, and Toronto’s efficiency when Barnes sees the ball in those sets has long been terrific. Yet Barnes has done an uncommon share of his damage in such sets as a passer. In fact, if you isolate such plays to only include direct end-of-possession results (shots and turnovers), Barnes scored below 0.9 points per possession as a pick-and-roll handler and an isolation scorer last season. Both marks were below the league average.

It’s actually incredible, from that point of view, that he was still so efficient in such sets despite scoring at a below-average rate. And there were plenty of reasons why his scoring wasn’t more efficient: a high frequency of double-teams, the ability of defenders to stunt and gap quite liberally without fear of punishment, and opposing game plans that could focus entirely on him without worry. Yet, his scoring improved! In many ways, his improving efficiency on virtually every playtype was a reflection of his improved ability to reach the paint, to threaten defenses as a scorer, to force rotations: more passes only become available to players because of the threats they pose as a scorer. If you can’t score, you don’t have those passes available to you. And Barnes can score — 20 points per game on quite solid efficiency is nothing to scoff at.

The thing is, the best teams have significantly more polished scorers. And in the hardest playtypes, too. In the NBA, there is a difference between a bucket coming off a cut, or a spot-up shot, or in transition — and one that you manufacture from a dead standstill, with all eyes on you. The best players of course need to be able to do all of the above. But the latter category is increasingly overlooked as a necessity on good teams. If you look at the last 10 teams to go to the Finals, every one rostered an isolation leader.


Image


I hear the top of the 2025 draft has some elite iso scorers….. just sayin

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:14 pm
by NinjaBro
In other news, water is wet.

"We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffin before it's too late!" - PhilBlackson

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:19 pm
by vulture
Prime kawhi just has to walk through that door.
Thanks Louis.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:22 pm
by Merit
Cam Thomas is a good possible acquisition. It’s why I liked Dejounte Murray a fair bit. Brandon Ingram also qualifies as a top isolation scorer last year.

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:25 pm
by DreamTeam09
An ISO scorer doesn't necessarily have to be or will be better than Scottie, we do need one tho regardless

Re: Zatzman: Raps Need Elite Iso Scorer

Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:29 pm
by Duffman100
Merit wrote:Cam Thomas is a good possible acquisition. It’s why I liked Dejounte Murray a fair bit. Brandon Ingram also qualifies as a top isolation scorer last year.


Problem with Cam Thomas is his shot selection is massively suspect and he hurts you badly on the other end.

I don't mind the thought of buying on his potential, but given he's a FA after this season, is he going to ask for max?