RealGM

Jack can't completely dump on the team but he keeps it real enough. As he succinctly puts it, where do you get your wins from? Especially when you consider it's a young team that's still gelling together, has a bunch of reclaimation projects all over and will try and learn how to play actual good team defence. And we know that player development is never linear so just expecting BBQ to all take positive leaps would be great but may not be the reality.

All that being said, everyone wants a tanking season and we'll certainly be getting one.

This is the first I've seen McCown since he's had his stroke. Good on him for getting back to this point.

He mentioned Scottie would have benefited with some solid vets around.. does he not consider champion FVV, Pascal and Young to not be good vets? I wonder who he had in mind

Pretty much inline with my thoughts as well in terms of where the team is right now. As constructed we don't have a lot of easy wins on our schedule. Jeez the first 41 games are going to be tough. 30ish wins with a chance at the Play-In is essentially where this team is right now, unless the prove otherwise.

jaketherap wrote:This is the first I've seen McCown since he's had his stroke. Good on him for getting back to this point.

His speech and facial movements obviously are not fully back, but yeah, glad to see he's got decent energy and stuff to at least do what he loves to do.

Brinbe wrote:Jack can't completely dump on the team but he keeps it real enough. As he succinctly puts it, where do you get your wins from? Especially when you consider it's a young team that's still gelling together, has a bunch of reclaimation projects all over and will try and learn how to play actual good team defence. And we know that player development is never linear so just expecting BBQ to all take positive leaps would be great but may not be the reality.

All that being said, everyone wants a tanking season and we'll certainly be getting one.

Basically, a balance between keeping team competitive but letting the tank run in january

We all mentioned this point and Jack touched on it .. but the NBA has gotten a lot deeper in talent, more teams are in the trying to win mode due to the:
- belief they can punch threw in the playoffs as long as they get in (less super stacked teams)
- play-in
- super team era over
- apron league ....etc, and so there are less "gimmy wins" where the Raptors got in the Lowry era. We also are not there yet in terms of hitting the 3 ball at a constant level to compete every night... the personnel has changed in 12 months which is good but Dick/JKW are still young.

The big benefit is the clear direction and no off-court distractions like last season with OG/Siakam. IQ, Scottie are in new and prime positions to go out and try their best with everyone trying to help out and grow along the way.

Mack11 wrote:He mentioned Scottie would have benefited with some solid vets around.. does he not consider champion FVV, Pascal and Young to not be good vets? I wonder who he had in mind

Probably one of those dudes whose name rhymes with Lyle Kowry.

Brinbe wrote:Jack can't completely dump on the team but he keeps it real enough. As he succinctly puts it, where do you get your wins from? Especially when you consider it's a young team that's still gelling together, has a bunch of reclaimation projects all over and will try and learn how to play actual good team defence. And we know that player development is never linear so just expecting BBQ to all take positive leaps would be great but may not be the reality.

All that being said, everyone wants a tanking season and we'll certainly be getting one.

No one wants to tank if the team had enough talent to actually be good. Most of us just see our team is so deprived of talent due to our management falling asleep for multiple years.

This is why we NEED to tank for the 3rd time in 5 seasons. Hopefully we can add a Scottie like talent from this year's draft as it's sorely needed to be competitive in the future.

Tor_Raps wrote:

Brinbe wrote:Jack can't completely dump on the team but he keeps it real enough. As he succinctly puts it, where do you get your wins from? Especially when you consider it's a young team that's still gelling together, has a bunch of reclaimation projects all over and will try and learn how to play actual good team defence. And we know that player development is never linear so just expecting BBQ to all take positive leaps would be great but may not be the reality.

All that being said, everyone wants a tanking season and we'll certainly be getting one.

No one wants to tank if the team had enough talent to actually be good. Most of us just see our team is so deprived of talent due to our management falling asleep for multiple years.

This is why we NEED to tank for the 3rd time in 5 seasons. Hopefully we can add a Scottie like talent from this year's draft as it's sorely needed to be competitive in the future.

It's just a matter of what the end goal is here. The current core is probably okay enough to be a playoff team in its prime but I'm sure they have aspirations of actually trying to compete for something and to do that, they know they need real high-end young talent to pair with Scottie and the best way to get that right now would be in the draft, especially in the next two years. If it were easy to just trade for a current rostered prospect like that, they'd do that if they could.

They have a couple of years to get it done.

I mean the team when it was originally together could not win with Siakam, OG, Poeltl, Barnes and Schroeder. They were 12-20 by Dec. 31, 2023. Darko had no idea how to use the team nor did they but into his coaching philosophy.

After the big trades it really fell apart, but I guess we had a stretch with the core group where we 6-7
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-game-log-with-scottie-barnes-and-with-immanuel-quickley-and-with-rj-barrett-and-with-jakob-poeltl

So the question is whether this team can have some .500 type success with all this extra camp stuff in Spain.

Dalek wrote:I mean the team when it was originally together could not win with Siakam, OG, Poeltl, Barnes and Schroeder. They were 12-20 by Dec. 31, 2023. Darko had no idea how to use the team nor did they but into his coaching philosophy.

After the big trades it really fell apart, but I guess we had a stretch with the core group where we 6-7
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-game-log-with-scottie-barnes-and-with-immanuel-quickley-and-with-rj-barrett-and-with-jakob-poeltl

So the question is whether this team can have some .500 type success with all this extra camp stuff in Spain.

There’s 0 chance of us being a .500 team. We have too many rookies on our bench. Not enough 3 point shooting with the starting lineup and our defence overall will probably be below average again.

Brinbe wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:

Brinbe wrote:Jack can't completely dump on the team but he keeps it real enough. As he succinctly puts it, where do you get your wins from? Especially when you consider it's a young team that's still gelling together, has a bunch of reclaimation projects all over and will try and learn how to play actual good team defence. And we know that player development is never linear so just expecting BBQ to all take positive leaps would be great but may not be the reality.

All that being said, everyone wants a tanking season and we'll certainly be getting one.

No one wants to tank if the team had enough talent to actually be good. Most of us just see our team is so deprived of talent due to our management falling asleep for multiple years.

This is why we NEED to tank for the 3rd time in 5 seasons. Hopefully we can add a Scottie like talent from this year's draft as it's sorely needed to be competitive in the future.

It's just a matter of what the end goal is here. The current core is probably okay enough to be a playoff team in its prime but I'm sure they have aspirations of actually trying to compete for something and to do that, they know they need real high-end young talent to pair with Scottie and the best way to get that right now would be in the draft, especially in the next two years. If it were easy to just trade for a current rostered prospect like that, they'd do that if they could.

They have a couple of years to get it done.

Yup... agreed 100%. We don't want Barnes to go the way of Damon, Vince and Bosh where they leave because we couldn't construct a long term winner with them.

I have total confidence in Masai to select the right player when given the chance and this draft seems like our best chance to do so. If not, the clock on Barnes' unhappiness will begin ticking.

ontnut wrote:

jaketherap wrote:This is the first I've seen McCown since he's had his stroke. Good on him for getting back to this point.

His speech and facial movements obviously are not fully back, but yeah, glad to see he's got decent energy and stuff to at least do what he loves to do.

Respect to Bob for his strength and tenacity.

Tor_Raps wrote:

Brinbe wrote:Jack can't completely dump on the team but he keeps it real enough. As he succinctly puts it, where do you get your wins from? Especially when you consider it's a young team that's still gelling together, has a bunch of reclaimation projects all over and will try and learn how to play actual good team defence. And we know that player development is never linear so just expecting BBQ to all take positive leaps would be great but may not be the reality.

All that being said, everyone wants a tanking season and we'll certainly be getting one.

No one wants to tank if the team had enough talent to actually be good. Most of us just see our team is so deprived of talent due to our management falling asleep for multiple years.

This is why we NEED to tank for the 3rd time in 5 seasons. Hopefully we can add a Scottie like talent from this year's draft as it's sorely needed to be competitive in the future.

I’m not averse to a tank. I’d just like us to tank strategically where we sign all the complementary pieces around a guy who significantly outplays his rookie scale contract - thereby allowing us to open a championship window that would otherwise be closed.

It’s the same reason why I advocate for trading for Wiggins. His contract expires when his role is due for a substantial change.

In case my concept is unclear: we already have BBQ Poeltl Dick. We have a bench full of youth. If you add a star on a rookie scale contract to this roster (in next year’s draft) it pushes it into playoff territory at worst.

Dalek wrote:I mean the team when it was originally together could not win with Siakam, OG, Poeltl, Barnes and Schroeder. They were 12-20 by Dec. 31, 2023. Darko had no idea how to use the team nor did they but into his coaching philosophy.

After the big trades it really fell apart, but I guess we had a stretch with the core group where we 6-7
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-game-log-with-scottie-barnes-and-with-immanuel-quickley-and-with-rj-barrett-and-with-jakob-poeltl

So the question is whether this team can have some .500 type success with all this extra camp stuff in Spain.

We would’ve been better with Fred.

To answer your question, I think a play in spot is a good space for us to be in. We can both be in the lotto and the playoffs? Count me in.

HumbleRen wrote:

Dalek wrote:I mean the team when it was originally together could not win with Siakam, OG, Poeltl, Barnes and Schroeder. They were 12-20 by Dec. 31, 2023. Darko had no idea how to use the team nor did they but into his coaching philosophy.

After the big trades it really fell apart, but I guess we had a stretch with the core group where we 6-7
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/raptors-game-log-with-scottie-barnes-and-with-immanuel-quickley-and-with-rj-barrett-and-with-jakob-poeltl

So the question is whether this team can have some .500 type success with all this extra camp stuff in Spain.

There’s 0 chance of us being a .500 team. We have too many rookies on our bench. Not enough 3 point shooting with the starting lineup and our defence overall will probably be below average again.

There are a number of questions to be answered for sure. This year’s team will be more enjoyable to watch because at least we know the direction. Developmental year.

If we win 15 of our first 40 I'd be shocked. Jack probably sees it that way too.

IQ/RJ/Dick/Barnes/Jakob
Davion/Walter/Brown/Ochai/Kelly

That's a 10 man rotation with 1 rookie - 11 probably goes to Bruno

I wrote that out in response to "us having way too many rookies" on our bench. We have a bunch of rookies but only Walter starts out in rotation in my eyes