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“The Raptors, after trading away Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby, look to make a push into the play-in pool this season behind RJ Barrett and Scottie Barnes. Barnes made his first All-Star appearance this past season and averaged 19.9 points, 8.2 rebounds, 6.1 assists, 1.3 steals and 1.5 blocks per game.”

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40896098/nba-predictions-2024-25-win-loss-records-celtics-knicks-every-east-team

The quote provided is the main bit about the Raptors.

I don't agree. We will be better than last year due to fewer in-season roster changes, 2nd year Darko, improved young players and core, and a better bench. The best outcome would be to get in as a play in team while also securing a top 10 pick (7th worst). This is probably possible considering the difference between EC and WC.

This is probably the worst win outcome for us this season. I think we finish around 30 wins but not more than that.

Man I hope they are right. If there was a season to "develop your young players" and get a high pick in the lotto - this is it.

Wouldn't be surprised. Think mid 20s-mid 30s is a probable outcome. We tend to have an insular view of things but even with internal improvement it's not as if the rest of the league haven't improved either.

It all comes down to Poeltl. The earlier in the season we can trade our only legit C and play Kelly O and the kids maximum minutes at C, the worse better.

tecumseh18 wrote:It all comes down to Poeltl. The earlier in the season we can trade our only legit C and play Kelly O and the kids maximum minutes at C, the worse better.

I think so too. My guess is Poeltl trade in Dec-Jan, and a Brown trade at the deadline.

We’ll be close to 30 wins, around 7-9 pick. I’m hoping for a top 6 pick, but it’s unlikely.

The East has gotten significantly weaker at the bottom, three teams the Raptors were fighting with for the play-in last season have taken steps backward (Bulls, Nets, Hawks) and most of the reason they only won 25 games was late season injuries to Scottie and Jak plus sitting IQ and Barrett at times to tank.

Very unlikely this team only wins 26 games, if that happens it will be injury related or because the front office made a tank move at the deadline which I don't see happening, if they were going that direction they would already have traded Jak in the offseason.

If we're a 26w team, none of the guys we have under contract are good enough to be a franchise player on a Championship team. So, who do we flush first then?

At that point, all of the new contracts don't look so good. Literally every one on the team would be available. Maybe we keep RJ to be the best player on a bad team. Everybody else, can go.

We will be around that mark....26-30 Wins is the most likely outcome of the Season....Just gotta hope the lottery goes our way so we end up with a life changing talent....

I predict a very slow start to the year with the front office ultimitly having no choice but to tank mid way....Yak prolly gone, Brown to follow....Then make a push for flagg/Ace/Edgecomb

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:If we're a 26w team, none of the guys we have under contract are good enough to be a franchise player on a Championship team. So, who do we flush first then?

At that point, all of the new contracts don't look so good. Literally every one on the team would be available. Maybe we keep RJ to be the best player on a bad team. Everybody else, can go.

If we are Losing that much it will have nothing to do with our main core....Barnes/Barrett/IQ would have nothing to do with our losses....Its the talent around them thats the issue....Yak is good but hes not no game changing C, Dick will be starting for first time in his career and still needs lots of things to go his way to be a factor, Our overall depth is pretty bad with our big rotation still weak...

You have Yak/KO/Boucher as your main bigs....Bench full of young or rookies....Thats a recipe for lots of losses...

You can't blame 3 players for a team game...We just lack the talent to be a .500 team or even close to that right now..

And yeah we do not have a franchise player or a true number 1....Which is why playing the draft this year is the smart decision..We have good high level prosects but a franchise player....Don't have it...

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:If we're a 26w team, none of the guys we have under contract are good enough to be a franchise player on a Championship team. So, who do we flush first then?

At that point, all of the new contracts don't look so good. Literally every one on the team would be available. Maybe we keep RJ to be the best player on a bad team. Everybody else, can go.

If we are Losing that much it will have nothing to do with our main core....Barnes/Barrett/IQ would have nothing to do with our losses....Its the talent around them thats the issue....Yak is good but hes not no game changing C, Dick will be starting for first time in his career and still needs lots of things to go his way to be a factor, Our overall depth is pretty bad with our big rotation still weak...

You have Yak/KO/Boucher as your main bigs....Bench full of young or rookies....Thats a recipe for lots of losses...

You can't blame 3 players for a team game...We just lack the talent to be a .500 team or even close to that right now..

And yeah we do not have a franchise player or a true number 1....Which is why playing the draft this year is the smart decision next year...We have good high level prosects but a franchise player....Don't have it...

This year, Scotties got to start to be in discussion for MVP. It's a make or break year for him. If he's putting up close to 25ppg, we don't have these problems.

If he's putting up sub 20ppg on a 26w team, he's not "Him". Time to move on from the core.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:If we're a 26w team, none of the guys we have under contract are good enough to be a franchise player on a Championship team. So, who do we flush first then?

At that point, all of the new contracts don't look so good. Literally every one on the team would be available. Maybe we keep RJ to be the best player on a bad team. Everybody else, can go.

If we are Losing that much it will have nothing to do with our main core....Barnes/Barrett/IQ would have nothing to do with our losses....Its the talent around them thats the issue....Yak is good but hes not no game changing C, Dick will be starting for first time in his career and still needs lots of things to go his way to be a factor, Our overall depth is pretty bad with our big rotation still weak...

You have Yak/KO/Boucher as your main bigs....Bench full of young or rookies....Thats a recipe for lots of losses...

You can't blame 3 players for a team game...We just lack the talent to be a .500 team or even close to that right now..

And yeah we do not have a franchise player or a true number 1....Which is why playing the draft this year is the smart decision next year...We have good high level prosects but a franchise player....Don't have it...

This year, Scotties got to start to be in discussion for MVP. It's a make or break year for him. If he's putting up close to 25ppg, we don't have these problems.

If he's putting up sub 20ppg on a 26w team, he's not "Him". Time to move on from the core.

I disagree....Barnes just turned 23 years old....Thats still a baby in terms of the NBA....Not many 23 year olds come into the NBA and avrg 25PPG and are in the "MVP" Discussion....Barnes will not be in the MVP discussions this year but that does not mean we have to trade him....We are rebuilding right now...Its going to take time...No need to rush things...

Barnes is still one of our better players for now and the future....Its just we need to add higher talent around him for him to be successfull in the role he will ultimitaly be playing here long term....You add another player on his level or above his level....Just like Tatum for the Celtics....If he doesn't have Brown with him hes prolly not a champion right now....

The Raptors are not a free agent destination and we are not trading for a "MVP" level player....We just need to get lucky on draft lotto night and hope we can get a player as good as Barnes or better....Then you have something to really build with....

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:
If we are Losing that much it will have nothing to do with our main core....Barnes/Barrett/IQ would have nothing to do with our losses....Its the talent around them thats the issue....Yak is good but hes not no game changing C, Dick will be starting for first time in his career and still needs lots of things to go his way to be a factor, Our overall depth is pretty bad with our big rotation still weak...

You have Yak/KO/Boucher as your main bigs....Bench full of young or rookies....Thats a recipe for lots of losses...

You can't blame 3 players for a team game...We just lack the talent to be a .500 team or even close to that right now..

And yeah we do not have a franchise player or a true number 1....Which is why playing the draft this year is the smart decision next year...We have good high level prosects but a franchise player....Don't have it...

This year, Scotties got to start to be in discussion for MVP. It's a make or break year for him. If he's putting up close to 25ppg, we don't have these problems.

If he's putting up sub 20ppg on a 26w team, he's not "Him". Time to move on from the core.

I disagree....Barnes just turned 23 years old....Thats still a baby in terms of the NBA....Not many 23 year olds come into the NBA and avrg 25PPG and are in the "MVP" Discussion....Barnes will not be in the MVP discussions this year but that does not mean we have to trade him....We are rebuilding right now...Its going to take time...No need to rush things...

Barnes is still one of our better players for now and the future....Its just we need to add higher talent around him for him to be successfull in the role he will ultimitaly be playing here long term....You add another player on his level or above his level....Just like Tatum for the Celtics....If he doesn't have Brown with him hes prolly not a champion right now....

The Raptors are not a free agent destination and we are not trading for a "MVP" level player....We just need to get lucky on draft lotto night and hope we can get a player as good as Barnes or better....Then you have something to really build with....

His contract, and the "core" get paid to much at this point. He's either performing, or we over paid.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:This year, Scotties got to start to be in discussion for MVP. It's a make or break year for him. If he's putting up close to 25ppg, we don't have these problems.

If he's putting up sub 20ppg on a 26w team, he's not "Him". Time to move on from the core.

I disagree....Barnes just turned 23 years old....Thats still a baby in terms of the NBA....Not many 23 year olds come into the NBA and avrg 25PPG and are in the "MVP" Discussion....Barnes will not be in the MVP discussions this year but that does not mean we have to trade him....We are rebuilding right now...Its going to take time...No need to rush things...

Barnes is still one of our better players for now and the future....Its just we need to add higher talent around him for him to be successfull in the role he will ultimitaly be playing here long term....You add another player on his level or above his level....Just like Tatum for the Celtics....If he doesn't have Brown with him hes prolly not a champion right now....

The Raptors are not a free agent destination and we are not trading for a "MVP" level player....We just need to get lucky on draft lotto night and hope we can get a player as good as Barnes or better....Then you have something to really build with....

His contract, and the "core" get paid too much at this point. He's either performing, or we over paid.

His contract is us betting on what he will look like 3-4 years down the road for us....Not this upcoming year....Its not a Boom or bust year for Barnes .....He will perform but he won't be MVP level....Like i said we are not a free agent destination so the Money we give to our main guys right now does not matter....We are not using our 200M Contract on any players in free agency because we will never be able to sign a player on that level....

We will build through the draft....Which means the contracts will be low scale money and by the time we need to reup their contracts we can make decisions on the contracts we gave out at that time...

The contracts are irrelevant on a rebuilding through the draft team like we are going to be for at least 1-2 years here...

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:
I disagree....Barnes just turned 23 years old....Thats still a baby in terms of the NBA....Not many 23 year olds come into the NBA and avrg 25PPG and are in the "MVP" Discussion....Barnes will not be in the MVP discussions this year but that does not mean we have to trade him....We are rebuilding right now...Its going to take time...No need to rush things...

Barnes is still one of our better players for now and the future....Its just we need to add higher talent around him for him to be successfull in the role he will ultimitaly be playing here long term....You add another player on his level or above his level....Just like Tatum for the Celtics....If he doesn't have Brown with him hes prolly not a champion right now....

The Raptors are not a free agent destination and we are not trading for a "MVP" level player....We just need to get lucky on draft lotto night and hope we can get a player as good as Barnes or better....Then you have something to really build with....

His contract, and the "core" get paid too much at this point. He's either performing, or we over paid.

His contract is us betting on what he will look like 3-4 years down the road for us....Not this upcoming year....Its not a Boom or bust year for Barnes .....He will perform but he won't be MVP level....Like i said we are not a free agent destination so the Money we give to our main guys right now does not matter....We are not using our 200M Contract on any players in free agency because we will never be able to sign a player on that level....

We will build through the draft....Which means the contracts will be low scale money and by the time we need to reup their contracts we can make decisions on the contracts we gave out at that time...

The contracts are irrelevant on a rebuilding through the draft team like we are going to be for at least 1-2 years here...

I disagree, it's his second contract...and it's a max. We wasted his rookie contract, now it's basically to late to have a 26W team.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:His contract, and the "core" get paid too much at this point. He's either performing, or we over paid.

His contract is us betting on what he will look like 3-4 years down the road for us....Not this upcoming year....Its not a Boom or bust year for Barnes .....He will perform but he won't be MVP level....Like i said we are not a free agent destination so the Money we give to our main guys right now does not matter....We are not using our 200M Contract on any players in free agency because we will never be able to sign a player on that level....

We will build through the draft....Which means the contracts will be low scale money and by the time we need to reup their contracts we can make decisions on the contracts we gave out at that time...

The contracts are irrelevant on a rebuilding through the draft team like we are going to be for at least 1-2 years here...

I disagree, it's his second contract...and it's a max. We wasted his rookie contract, now it's basically to late to have a 26W team.

Its the first year of his 2nd contract and hes only 23 years old....We will build through the draft the next 2 years i predict....We will see the investment in Barnes/Barrett/IQ really pay off in 3 years i think....I think this year we are really bad...top 6-7 Pick bad....Followed by a good 2nd year being closer to .500....Then by year 3 i think we take off and start becoming a legit playoff threat....By year 4-5-6 we are contending....Thats how i see it going if we play our cards right and make the right draft selections...

If we get really lucky and add a top 3 pick next year we end up getting a top player could see us become good faster...maybe as soon as next year we are playoff threat...But that will be based on Luck

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:
His contract is us betting on what he will look like 3-4 years down the road for us....Not this upcoming year....Its not a Boom or bust year for Barnes .....He will perform but he won't be MVP level....Like i said we are not a free agent destination so the Money we give to our main guys right now does not matter....We are not using our 200M Contract on any players in free agency because we will never be able to sign a player on that level....

We will build through the draft....Which means the contracts will be low scale money and by the time we need to reup their contracts we can make decisions on the contracts we gave out at that time...

The contracts are irrelevant on a rebuilding through the draft team like we are going to be for at least 1-2 years here...

I disagree, it's his second contract...and it's a max. We wasted his rookie contract, now it's basically to late to have a 26W team.

Its the first year of his 2nd contract and hes only 23 years old....We will build through the draft the next 2 years i predict....We will see the investment in Barnes/Barrett/IQ really pay off in 3 years i think....I think this year we are really bad...top 6-7 Pick bad....Followed by a good 2nd year being closer to .500....Then by year 3 i think we take off and start becoming a legit playoff threat....By year 4-5-6 we are contending....Thats how i see it going if we play our cards right and make the right draft selections...

He's a fourth year player, forget his age. He's no longer cheap.

Neither is RJ or IQ any more.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:If we're a 26w team, none of the guys we have under contract are good enough to be a franchise player on a Championship team. So, who do we flush first then?

At that point, all of the new contracts don't look so good. Literally every one on the team would be available. Maybe we keep RJ to be the best player on a bad team. Everybody else, can go.

If we are Losing that much it will have nothing to do with our main core....Barnes/Barrett/IQ would have nothing to do with our losses....Its the talent around them thats the issue....Yak is good but hes not no game changing C, Dick will be starting for first time in his career and still needs lots of things to go his way to be a factor, Our overall depth is pretty bad with our big rotation still weak...

You have Yak/KO/Boucher as your main bigs....Bench full of young or rookies....Thats a recipe for lots of losses...

You can't blame 3 players for a team game...We just lack the talent to be a .500 team or even close to that right now..

And yeah we do not have a franchise player or a true number 1....Which is why playing the draft this year is the smart decision next year...We have good high level prosects but a franchise player....Don't have it...

This year, Scotties got to start to be in discussion for MVP. It's a make or break year for him. If he's putting up close to 25ppg, we don't have these problems.

If he's putting up sub 20ppg on a 26w team, he's not "Him". Time to move on from the core.

Never ceases to amaze me ... some people expecting magically for a player (scottie) to become an mvp type player, when he never was, or will be, that type of generational talent... he's just a good player... who needs other talent around him... he is not carrying the team... any team. stop fantasizing.. It's not healthy for you, lol

The team won't go far because it has NO bench and 4 quality players on the roster.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:

Clutch0z24 wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:I disagree, it's his second contract...and it's a max. We wasted his rookie contract, now it's basically to late to have a 26W team.

Its the first year of his 2nd contract and hes only 23 years old....We will build through the draft the next 2 years i predict....We will see the investment in Barnes/Barrett/IQ really pay off in 3 years i think....I think this year we are really bad...top 6-7 Pick bad....Followed by a good 2nd year being closer to .500....Then by year 3 i think we take off and start becoming a legit playoff threat....By year 4-5-6 we are contending....Thats how i see it going if we play our cards right and make the right draft selections...

He's a fourth year player, forget his age. He's no longer cheap.

Neither is RJ or IQ any more.

What would we be doing with our "Cap Space" and money right now if its not going to Barnes/IQ/Barrett? ....You have to give the money to someone on the team....What will we be doing with our Money next year or the following year?....Face it we are not signing some max level MVP level free agent anytime soon.....Only shot we got would be Shai...But that would be when hes in his 30s...

The money like i said is irrelevant because we are building through the draft (Cheap contracts) and trades....Barnes making alot of money means nothing....I don't expect Barnes to be an MVP ....I see him a 2nd option....Barrett a 3rd option....IQ/Dick great role players...

This is why the draft is so important for us the next 2 years here....Because based on who we pick is how good the Barnes era will be....

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:If we're a 26w team, none of the guys we have under contract are good enough to be a franchise player on a Championship team. So, who do we flush first then?

At that point, all of the new contracts don't look so good. Literally every one on the team would be available. Maybe we keep RJ to be the best player on a bad team. Everybody else, can go.

I agree with this. It's not like Scottie/ RJ/ IQ (& Poeltl) are rookies or sophmores. They are at the point in their careers where they are expected to produce.

I think a season with less than 33-35 wins is a failure for this group (in terms of on court basketball success). Anything more than 35 is unexpected growth/ success. Less than 30 wins makes you question the talent leve of this core.