RealGM

22. Toronto Raptors
Previous ranking: 24

Toronto moved on from its prior era this past season, as Fred VanVleet walked in free agency last summer before Pascal Siakam and OG Anunoby were traded. With money and draft scores inside the top 10 and a player score that bumped up slightly (from 24 to 22) the Raptors are firmly oriented toward the future behind All-Star Scottie Barnes, midseason acquisitions Immanuel Quickley and RJ Barrett and 2023 lottery pick Gradey Dick. -- Bontemps

22 seems about right
i dont see us any higher unless we get major jumps from the starters and our depth plays a solid role

First half of the season is rough so a lot of things have to go right to overcome that .. and few things need to go wrong for us to be in the tank by Jan

Here are the rankings from 2021:
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/32361014/nba-future-power-rankings-predicting-best-worst-franchises

2020:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28999893/nba-future-power-rankings-predicting-best-worst-franchises

Not sure how valuable these are in a league where everything changes every 20 minutes.

WuTang_OG wrote:22 seems about right
i dont see us any higher unless we get major jumps from the starters and our depth plays a solid role

First half of the season is rough so a lot of things have to go right to overcome that .. and few things need to go wrong for us to be in the tank by Jan

Misread it, 22nd in 24-25, but the projections for other stuff are rankings for the next 3 years*

Next 3 season is hard to predict, but I think we will be higher after we get a lottery pick this season, maybe closer to 16.

The most notable thing to me, is our terrible management ranking.

Scase wrote:The most notable thing to me, is our terrible management ranking.

They were the top ranked team in 2020 and second in 2021. So how valuable are these rankings in reality?

Fairview4Life wrote:

Scase wrote:The most notable thing to me, is our terrible management ranking.

They were the top ranked team in 2020 and second in 2021. So how valuable are these rankings in reality?

They had won a chip recently, came off a 53 win season, and had one of the best coaches in the league Vs multiple failing seasons and a rookie head coach.

Seems pretty accurate to me. Unless you plan on blaming ESPN for not accurately predicting the impact of a global pandemic, which might be a touch unfair.

Though Toronto's roster might look dramatically different in two years with four of five starters (all but Pascal Siakam) headed for unrestricted free agency by then, our top-ranked management group has given every reason to believe the Raptors can handle any scenario.

Toronto is on track to have max cap space in 2021 to pursue a star to pair with Siakam and a budding core that also includes guard Fred VanVleet (an unrestricted free agent after this season) and forward OG Anunoby. The Raptors also continue to develop complementary talent, with undrafted rookie Terence Davis their latest unheralded find.

All of that was a pretty fair set of statements all things considered. They predicted them to continue to be good, they were not. Says more about the management than the prediction IMO.

Scase wrote:

WuTang_OG wrote:22 seems about right
i dont see us any higher unless we get major jumps from the starters and our depth plays a solid role

First half of the season is rough so a lot of things have to go right to overcome that .. and few things need to go wrong for us to be in the tank by Jan

Misread it, 22nd in 24-25, but the projections for other stuff are rankings for the next 3 years*

Read it fine. Only speaking to ranking for 24-25.

Scase wrote:

Fairview4Life wrote:

Scase wrote:The most notable thing to me, is our terrible management ranking.

They were the top ranked team in 2020 and second in 2021. So how valuable are these rankings in reality?

They had won a chip recently, came off a 53 win season, and had one of the best coaches in the league Vs multiple failing seasons and a rookie head coach.

Seems pretty accurate to me. Unless you plan on blaming ESPN for not accurately predicting the impact of a global pandemic, which might be a touch unfair.

Though Toronto's roster might look dramatically different in two years with four of five starters (all but Pascal Siakam) headed for unrestricted free agency by then, our top-ranked management group has given every reason to believe the Raptors can handle any scenario.

Toronto is on track to have max cap space in 2021 to pursue a star to pair with Siakam and a budding core that also includes guard Fred VanVleet (an unrestricted free agent after this season) and forward OG Anunoby. The Raptors also continue to develop complementary talent, with undrafted rookie Terence Davis their latest unheralded find.

All of that was a pretty fair set of statements all things considered. They predicted them to continue to be good, they were not. Says more about the management than the prediction IMO.

I am saying that if the prediction can be shown to be wildly incorrect within 3 years, then predicting three years out seems like it isn't all that valuable. They had the Nets and Clippers as the top rated teams overall in 2020 and 2021. They had the TWolves in the trash heap. There's a whole lot wrong with their predictions. If they are only good for telling us what happened in the season and summer prior to the prediction...then it's not really a good prediction.

So long as Masai doesn't deal that FRP

Fairview4Life wrote:

Scase wrote:The most notable thing to me, is our terrible management ranking.

They were the top ranked team in 2020 and second in 2021. So how valuable are these rankings in reality?

Absolutely useless. Sorry - but any rankings that has a team go from "1st" in management to 22nd in a span of 2 years is just clickbait.

The management rankings are useless - we all know if we had a "management" draft to start up a franchise there is zero change Masai and co. are the 21st taked

These lists are just very strongly "what have you done lately" and that is why the player and management ranking across the board are strongly coorelated for every team here.

WuTang_OG wrote:

Scase wrote:

WuTang_OG wrote:22 seems about right
i dont see us any higher unless we get major jumps from the starters and our depth plays a solid role

First half of the season is rough so a lot of things have to go right to overcome that .. and few things need to go wrong for us to be in the tank by Jan

Misread it, 22nd in 24-25, but the projections for other stuff are rankings for the next 3 years*

Read it fine. Only speaking to ranking for 24-25.

I meant that I read it wrong lol. I had posted a reply and then edited the whole thing

Fairview4Life wrote:

Scase wrote:

Fairview4Life wrote:
They were the top ranked team in 2020 and second in 2021. So how valuable are these rankings in reality?

They had won a chip recently, came off a 53 win season, and had one of the best coaches in the league Vs multiple failing seasons and a rookie head coach.

Seems pretty accurate to me. Unless you plan on blaming ESPN for not accurately predicting the impact of a global pandemic, which might be a touch unfair.

Though Toronto's roster might look dramatically different in two years with four of five starters (all but Pascal Siakam) headed for unrestricted free agency by then, our top-ranked management group has given every reason to believe the Raptors can handle any scenario.

Toronto is on track to have max cap space in 2021 to pursue a star to pair with Siakam and a budding core that also includes guard Fred VanVleet (an unrestricted free agent after this season) and forward OG Anunoby. The Raptors also continue to develop complementary talent, with undrafted rookie Terence Davis their latest unheralded find.

All of that was a pretty fair set of statements all things considered. They predicted them to continue to be good, they were not. Says more about the management than the prediction IMO.

I am saying that if the prediction can be shown to be wildly incorrect within 3 years, then predicting three years out seems like it isn't all that valuable. They had the Nets and Clippers as the top rated teams overall in 2020 and 2021. They had the TWolves in the trash heap. There's a whole lot wrong with their predictions. If they are only good for telling us what happened in the season and summer prior to the prediction...then it's not really a good prediction.

Predictions are literally based off historical performance lol. What do you expect them to predict based off of, made up stuff? Like I get what you are saying, but predictions exist for a reason, and they are usually accurate enough to go off of.

As for the twolves they had them ranked 26th for 19-20, they ended up 28th. I'm not exactly sure that's a hill you want to die on. The next year they had them 25th, they had a bad player ranking, a bad management ranking and a good draft ranking, again, I don't think I'm going to fault them for not predicting the Gobert trade, which flipped those rankings for obvious reasons.

But if you think our rankings are not worth mentioning because you are expecting some Gobert-esque outlier to prove the rule vs the exception, yet again, not a hill I think that's worth dying on. Nothing about their rankings seem outlandish.

Additionally, their predictions aren't for 3 years out, the predictions are for the upcoming season. The Rankings are what are for the next 3 years.

Just so desperate for any validation.

Scase wrote:
Predictions are literally based off historical performance lol. What do you expect them to predict based off of, made up stuff? Like I get what you are saying, but predictions exist for a reason, and they are usually accurate enough to go off of.

So you think based on the past decade it is fair to say our FO should be considered in the bottom third? There are 20-21 front offices you think are more competent based off their historical performance?

Or does historical performance only mean anything that has happened since Feb 2023?

Honestly our main goal for this season is for all our young players to get better ... Coach Darko too. Year 2 now for him with a stable roster. Actually met him in Etobicoke few weeks ago, super nice guy

Fairview4Life wrote:

Scase wrote:The most notable thing to me, is our terrible management ranking.

They were the top ranked team in 2020 and second in 2021. So how valuable are these rankings in reality?

That's easy to answer. They are worth less than doodly squat. Just like all projections beyond next week.

Pre-draft rankings? Doodly squat.

Pre-season projections of who will win the title? Or even make the finals? Doodly squat.

How any trade will work out? Doodly squat.

It's incredible how despite years and years of evidence to the contrary people still cling fiercely to the idea that one can know with any kind of certainty some specific long-term outcome in a system as complex and unpredictable as the NBA.

Meanwhile I am 100% certain that everyone on the inside of the actual decision-making understands that all you can do is come up with a plan that could work if everything falls into place, do your best to implement it for a while, then be prepared to pivot towards a new plan – and new people – as soon as it becomes clear that the current one isn't working out, which by definition happens most of the time.

That is how all pro sports works. The rest is just hype and hope and hate.

I think Masai and the front office def deserve to be dinged for how they handled the pivot away from the previous core. It was a decision we know that was made far too late and one driven by loyalty/heart, (which is all good for karmic reasons, I guess?) instead of his head and you know that's not how things work in this business. You gotta be ruthless and know when to cut the cord and he failed. Same thing that happened with Lowry that led to Dragic and then to the terrible Thad trade. So a result we're way behind where we should be in our rebuild. And now they've replaced OG/Siakam with RJ/IQ (for now) and we'll see how they get on with Scottie this season. RJ is looking like he'll be an average starter at least, but I don't know that he'll ever be a superstar or anything. So lots will ride on IQ's upward trajectory and if he can prove that he can actually be a starting NBA lead guard and not just an undersized (and overpaid) rotational combo/shooting guard. I'm rooting for him, but I admit there's lots of room for skepticism.

Anyway, the big thing in the next two years will be the draft and if they wanna actually be future contenders and look to deliver on the high aspirations they've set for themselves, they absolutely have to come away from these next two drafts (which are stacked with premium franchise-changing talent at the top of both of them) with at least one blue chip prospect on Scottie's level or better, which is a high bar, but you need multiple high-end stars to compete. If not, then we're just spinning our wheels as an organization. So in that regard, this feels like about where we should be right now. But there's room for upward movement if they can find that high-end talent to match with Scottie. We'll see.

Indeed wrote:Next 3 season is hard to predict, but I think we will be higher after we get a lottery pick this season, maybe closer to 16.

i don't think we draft in the top 5 this year (unless we get some Hawks level lottery luck) so i don't think a draft pick in the early teens is going to be all that helpful over the next three years.

Jadoogar wrote:

Indeed wrote:Next 3 season is hard to predict, but I think we will be higher after we get a lottery pick this season, maybe closer to 16.

i don't think we draft in the top 5 this year (unless we get some Hawks level lottery luck) so i don't think a draft pick in the early teens is going to be all that helpful over the next three years.

How do you figure? How many games do you really think this team (which has about 4 actual rotation level nba players on it right now, 5 if you include Kelly O, who may be washed) is gonna win? I don't know how we win many games with zero bench.