RealGM

Talk about Toronto ties...

Just move them to Toronto already

So stupid, you buy when its low, sell when its high. Right now with Josh Allen, the Bills are over valued. Of course the Pegula's are looking for suckers, get that sports athlete money... wonder why legit billionaires want nothing to do with a 5 Billion evaluation?

Hackett wrote:So stupid, you buy when its low, sell when its high. Right now with Josh Allen, the Bills are over valued. Of course the Pegula's are looking for suckers, get that sports athlete money... wonder why legit billionaires want nothing to do with a 5 Billion evaluation?

It's going to go up in value.

BoyzNTheHood wrote:

Hackett wrote:So stupid, you buy when its low, sell when its high. Right now with Josh Allen, the Bills are over valued. Of course the Pegula's are looking for suckers, get that sports athlete money... wonder why legit billionaires want nothing to do with a 5 Billion evaluation?

It's going to go up in value.

And rich people hold onto assets instead of cash to lower their tax bills.
Losing money also can claim for future profit. It works differently than average salary people would do for tax purposes and financial gain (eg. invest nearby properties).

Indeed wrote:

BoyzNTheHood wrote:

Hackett wrote:So stupid, you buy when its low, sell when its high. Right now with Josh Allen, the Bills are over valued. Of course the Pegula's are looking for suckers, get that sports athlete money... wonder why legit billionaires want nothing to do with a 5 Billion evaluation?

It's going to go up in value.

And rich people hold onto assets instead of cash to lower their tax bills.
Losing money also can claim for future profit. It works differently than average salary people would do for tax purposes and financial gain (eg. invest nearby properties).

Yup, if you don’t have it, you can’t be taxed on it.

So how much are they investing and what percentage?

BoyzNTheHood wrote:

Hackett wrote:So stupid, you buy when its low, sell when its high. Right now with Josh Allen, the Bills are over valued. Of course the Pegula's are looking for suckers, get that sports athlete money... wonder why legit billionaires want nothing to do with a 5 Billion evaluation?

It's going to go up in value.

That really depends on what they buy, preferred shares or general shares... also, if the Pegula's needed money why not go to a bank and keep their ownership stake? How much has been leveraged against the franchise? Buffalo Bills were in deep trouble prior to Josh Allen, this is why the community started the Bills Bakers program, they used their own money to fund the franchise, to what ends, and what shares that represented its not really clear. The team even filed for state tax exemptions. You have 3 NFL teams in the state of NY, how big is the territory that you derive your profits from? Buffalo isn't exactly the ideal place for future growth.

Then you have the QB situation, concussions, injury, car accident, pain killer addiction, and suddenly that evaluation is dropping by a billion or more. Very risky, without Allen, I don't think you have the same team.

The current evaluations for NFL franchises are the highest they have ever been. Just like the stock market, the bulls always say its going to keep going higher... yet we are seeing problems in the economy. People loosing houses, high debt ratios, consumers turning to streams over full cable packages. Is there really endless money to be made by the NFL, even when most fans are being pushed to their financial limits?

Then you have the election in the USA, what happens if TRUMP looses, what happens if he wins? Is there going to be stability, is he going to push fascist policies and take revenge on the left that oppose him. Is it possible that a civil war of some sorts erupts? How does this help these pumped up evaluations to grow?

The next generations may not care as much about football as this one does... things can change. All it takes is a few incidents, a contract dispute, a marginalized generation... if I was the Pegula's, I would love that 5 billion in physical gold bullion.



Why sell to former Raptor and Toronto FC players? Why not also get some Argos into this, how much can this group realistically come up with? 20 Million? 40 Million? Peanuts compared to the evaluation, is that even enough to get the true access to the books and state of a 5 Billion dollar franchise? I have a feeling these are not preferred shares, and the reason they are trolling former athletes because they often make bad investments and are awed by pro sports.

In this economy, if you have 20-40 Million to invest, you can really make out like a bandit. Real Estate prices are dropping and there are great deals out there, businesses can be bought for a fraction of their previous evaluations because the price of money is no longer that cheap... lots of good deals out there, not sure NFL is the elevator to the top as some are making them out to be. Why are the Pagula's selling their shares, what do they know, if its just up and UP, why not just get a credit line against your valuation? What is their current debt load? How much do they really own? Private investment may be a sucker play.


The world has become much more complex, changes are not far away... stability is not assured.

EDIT: Keep in mind that interest rates are higher than they used to be. If there is a high debt load on the team, and acquired during the free money era, right about now, those payments would be quite high. They may even be negating all profits completely, as most of these 4 billion dollar clubs are showing 40-60 million in profit annually. If this is such a safe play, why not go to lending institutions? Why former Toronto Athletes looking to park their retirement money?

Hackett wrote:

BoyzNTheHood wrote:

Hackett wrote:So stupid, you buy when its low, sell when its high. Right now with Josh Allen, the Bills are over valued. Of course the Pegula's are looking for suckers, get that sports athlete money... wonder why legit billionaires want nothing to do with a 5 Billion evaluation?

It's going to go up in value.

That really depends on what they buy, preferred shares or general shares... also, if the Pegula's needed money why not go to a bank and keep their ownership stake? How much has been leveraged against the franchise? Buffalo Bills were in deep trouble prior to Josh Allen, this is why the community started the Bills Bakers program, they used their own money to fund the franchise, to what ends, and what shares that represented its not really clear. The team even filed for state tax exemptions. You have 3 NFL teams in the state of NY, how big is the territory that you derive your profits from? Buffalo isn't exactly the ideal place for future growth.

Then you have the QB situation, concussions, injury, car accident, pain killer addiction, and suddenly that evaluation is dropping by a billion or more. Very risky, without Allen, I don't think you have the same team.

The current evaluations for NFL franchises are the highest they have ever been. Just like the stock market, the bulls always say its going to keep going higher... yet we are seeing problems in the economy. People loosing houses, high debt ratios, consumers turning to streams over full cable packages. Is there really endless money to be made by the NFL, even when most fans are being pushed to their financial limits?

Then you have the election in the USA, what happens if TRUMP looses, what happens if he wins? Is there going to be stability, is he going to push fascist policies and take revenge on the left that oppose him. Is it possible that a civil war of some sorts erupts? How does this help these pumped up evaluations to grow?

The next generations may not care as much about football as this one does... things can change. All it takes is a few incidents, a contract dispute, a marginalized generation... if I was the Pegula's, I would love that 5 billion in physical gold bullion.



Why sell to former Raptor and Toronto FC players? Why not also get some Argos into this, how much can this group realistically come up with? 20 Million? 40 Million? Peanuts compared to the evaluation, is that even enough to get the true access to the books and state of a 5 Billion dollar franchise? I have a feeling these are not preferred shares, and the reason they are trolling former athletes because they often make bad investments and are awed by pro sports.

In this economy, if you have 20-40 Million to invest, you can really make out like a bandit. Real Estate prices are dropping and there are great deals out there, businesses can be bought for a fraction of their previous evaluations because the price of money is no longer that cheap... lots of good deals out there, not sure NFL is the elevator to the top as some are making them out to be. Why are the Pagula's selling their shares, what do they know, if its just up and UP, why not just get a credit line against your valuation? What is their current debt load? How much do they really own? Private investment may be a sucker play.


The world has become much more complex, changes are not far away... stability is not assured.

EDIT: Keep in mind that interest rates are higher than they used to be. If there is a high debt load on the team, and acquired during the free money era, right about now, those payments would be quite high. They may even be negating all profits completely, as most of these 4 billion dollar clubs are showing 40-60 million in profit annually. If this is such a safe play, why not go to lending institutions? Why former Toronto Athletes looking to park their retirement money?

This is why. Live sports is the last refuge for advertisers. It's one of the few types of entertainment networks can guarantee eyeballs on commercials. The NFL also has guaranteed income in the form of their tv deal, of which they have an opt out in 2029 (if things are going well) and they also have an opt-in until 2033 (if things take a down turn). The NFL has all it's bases covered for a decade as far as revenue goes.

Also, I'm assuming you don't know how much CFL players actually make. In 2011, Vince Carter made more money in 3 games than the highest paid CFL player made last season.

When I first saw that headline my first thought was how does Jozy Altidore compare to Vince/Tmac? LOL Sure he as a DP for Toronto FC, but he didn't make close to as much money the other 2 did both in salaries and endorsements. Just sounded so random to have Altidore part of this LOL

ForeverTFC wrote:Just move them to Toronto already

No chance. The Bills are the most popular NFL team in the state of New York.

I hate the frickin' Bills. Have since before the so called "glory" years of Kelly and the 4 SB losses (which were awesome to witness lol). I'm not surprized Altidore would go in on them, but Vince and Tracy are disappointing. I'd rather see them as part of a consortium to dump Ross from Miami.

ForeverTFC wrote:Just move them to Toronto already

After seeing NFL games in Toronto, that would be a waste. Toronto cannot accommodate tailgating in any real way and ruins it, and the dome just absolutely sucks for football.

Johnny Bball wrote:

ForeverTFC wrote:Just move them to Toronto already

After seeing NFL games in Toronto, that would be a waste. Toronto cannot accommodate tailgating in any real way and ruins it, and the dome just absolutely sucks for football.

Well... they wouldn't be playing at the Rogers centre so your issue may be moot. I know the Fords at one point were suggesting some of the acres that woodbine racetrack has would be an ideal place to plop a NFL stadium with parking and tailgaiting. The location would have been good access to the major highways, close to downtown but avoiding the sprawl.

Of course that was the conversation when the whole Bon Jovi buying the bills and bringing them to Toronto rumours were happening.

The Bills signed a new 30 year lease agreement (there is an opt-out after 15 years) but I don't think they're moving anytime soon.

ConSarnit wrote:
Also, I'm assuming you don't know how much CFL players actually make. In 2011, Vince Carter made more money in 3 games than the highest paid CFL player made last season.

Include the Argo's was a comment in jest, I was going to add in the varsity blues and their parents, but I thought the point was already made.

Honestly I don't know anything about the deal that these guys are making or looking at making, however, I do know enough about investing and being sold a bill of goods. Not long ago banks were pushing mortgage backed securities on investment funds using the premise that the returns were sound and only going to get better, well we all know how that turned out.

I will say this, from a google search it does say that all of the NFL clubs are profitable, and the average profit is 48 million, that would mean bigger clubs are probably multitudes above that number and smaller clubs a bit bellow. Let's assume that Buffalo bills are exactly at the average. 48 Million profit.

So this 5 Billion evaluation, gets you less than 1% on your money. That is not even enough to keep pace with inflation. On a risky venture like a NFL team who often goes through profit and loss cycles based on competitiveness of the product on the field, you would hope that the Josh Allen era would be pulling in more than 1%.

I know the books, are cooked, most of these franchises are used to grow an asset base while showing less taxable income, but in the end money lenders are going to go by the official books, as are future investors, not by the possible write offs. So I can see why the Buffalo Bills need private investors.

EDIT: Basically, what I am saying is I would not touch that 5 billion evaluation, I think its inflated, and if I was an investor, I would want a more realistic number. Most of these clubs have payrolls of 200 million, kind of shocking if a club is really worth 5 billion, the entire success and marketability of the team is by the product on the field... so I think like a lot of things, there is a lot of future potential baked in to this evaluation, which in my mind is not very realistic, or a good buy. This idea that these numbers are going to double or triple, is like thinking that Tesla is just going to keep skyrocketing... hype of the NFL brand is making a lot of people overvalue a small market team.

My Advice to our former Raptors, is wait for a contract dispute with the players, then when the owners are starving, jump in with your money.... don't buy when the NFL is at its highest and most marketable point. You buy low, and you sell high... very simple.

Huskies1947 wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:

ForeverTFC wrote:Just move them to Toronto already

After seeing NFL games in Toronto, that would be a waste. Toronto cannot accommodate tailgating in any real way and ruins it, and the dome just absolutely sucks for football.

Well... they wouldn't be playing at the Rogers centre so your issue may be moot. I know the Fords at one point were suggesting some of the acres that woodbine racetrack has would be an ideal place to plop a NFL stadium with parking and tailgaiting. The location would have been good access to the major highways, close to downtown but avoiding the sprawl.

Of course that was the conversation when the whole Bon Jovi buying the bills and bringing them to Toronto rumours were happening.

I think you would have to get to north oakville milton now before finding a suitable place for the stadium, parking, tailgating now. Maybe north of King Road on the 400. But there isn't anywhere big enough to fit it properly anymore in Toronto proper or immediately adjacent. And to be able to get there and out in a decent time.

And the drinking in public laws would have to change. Buffalo has always been just a much better experience on a Sunday, even with the border crossing.

What's the point of such a meagre ownership stake?

GP2 wrote:What's the point of such a meagre ownership stake?

If you owned .00001% of NVidia, would that be meager and would you consider that pointless?

ForeverTFC wrote:Just move them to Toronto already

Still doesn't make sense how poorly the Bills in Toronto experiment did. The Jaguars litterally fly across the ocean every season to play in London as the fans there really embrace them.

Crazy the NFL is already looking at potential expansion to London and Mexico city instead of Toronto just across the border, where they already have 3 out of the Big 4 North American sports, 4 out of 5 if you count MLS there.