24/25 Team Stats Thread

[djsunyc]

this thread is to post and discuss team stats as the season progresses. not sure if this thread will have legs but let's try.

after 13 games: ortg/drtg/net

overall: 109.4 (22nd) / 116.7 (26th) / -7.3 (26th)

home (6 games): 109.4 (26th) / 114.3 (20th) / -4.9 (24th)
away (7 games): 109.5 (19th) / 119.0 (28th) / -9.5 (27th)
clutch (5pt difference or less: 6 games): 101.7 (26th) / 129.1 (23rd) / -26.5 (28th)

1st quarter: 109.2 (18th) / 122.5 (30th) / -13.3 (27th)
2nd quarter: 104.8 (25th) / 108.3 (11th) / -3.5 (18th)
3rd quarter: 116.7 (9th) / 116.9 (21st) / 0.2 (16th)
4th quarter: 107.2 (27th) / 120.3 (24th) / -13.1 (29th)

our top 5 net rtg players:

mogbo: 104.6 / 105.7 / -1.0
gradey: 113.6 / 116.1 / -2.5
yak: 113.0 / 116.9 / -4.0
davion: 109.6 / 114.3 / -4.7
boucher: 109.4 / 115.9 / -6.5

tough to say if these team stats are going to stay the same since we are battling so many injuries. we start and close games very poorly - and eye test backs that up. absolutely dreadful in clutch situations. it's the middle of the game where we come back and make game interesting.

[Thaddy]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

[deck]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

[Scizzup]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

I liked the way Gradey has played but a lot of these players listed at different tiers. Did you come to this conclusion cause of 20ppg on 58% TS in less than 20 games sample?

There is almost 0% chance he is ever as good as some of them. Guys like Middleton Klay and D-white have put up multi seasons of all star impact. Some of the other names only got to play those mins because they were a plus or strong plus on defense also.

[deck]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

I liked the way Gradey has played but a lot of these players listed at different tiers. Did you come to this conclusion cause of 20ppg on 58% TS in less than 20 games sample?

There is almost 0% chance he is ever as good as some of them. Guys like Middleton Klay and D-white have put up multi seasons of all star impact.

I came to this conclusion based on simple logic and by watching Gradey play.

Why is there a 0% chance? Take Klay as an example, he wasn't even in the league at 20.

Please edify for me why Klay at 21 putting up 12 ppg on 44% and 41% was a future all-star but Gradey at 20 putting up 19 ppg on 43% and 34% has a zero percent chance of archiving the same?

The point is, trying to project with certainty (ie. 0% chance) is just dumb.

[Shakril]

this thread is to post and discuss team stats as the season progresses. not sure if this thread will have legs but let's try.

after 13 games: ortg/drtg/net

overall: 109.4 (22nd) / 116.7 (26th) / -7.3 (26th)

home (6 games): 109.4 (26th) / 114.3 (20th) / -4.9 (24th)
away (7 games): 109.5 (19th) / 119.0 (28th) / -9.5 (27th)
clutch (5pt difference or less: 6 games): 101.7 (26th) / 129.1 (23rd) / -26.5 (28th)

1st quarter: 109.2 (18th) / 122.5 (30th) / -13.3 (27th)
2nd quarter: 104.8 (25th) / 108.3 (11th) / -3.5 (18th)
3rd quarter: 116.7 (9th) / 116.9 (21st) / 0.2 (16th)
4th quarter: 107.2 (27th) / 120.3 (24th) / -13.1 (29th)

our top 5 net rtg players:

mogbo: 104.6 / 105.7 / -1.0
gradey: 113.6 / 116.1 / -2.5
yak: 113.0 / 116.9 / -4.0
davion: 109.6 / 114.3 / -4.7
boucher: 109.4 / 115.9 / -6.5

tough to say if these team stats are going to stay the same since we are battling so many injuries. we start and close games very poorly - and eye test backs that up. absolutely dreadful in clutch situations. it's the middle of the game where we come back and make game interesting.

so our 3rd quarters are the best, 4th quarters are the wrost - meets the eyetest

[Shakril]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

Porzingis is always injured, it was al horford not Kristaps and poeltl is a better player at this stage in the career
Comparing a starter with a superstar, then you should also compare KCP with lebron - just a stupid take
Davis has not played as a center when they won - it was dwight howard
Draymond is not a big, he just fulfills the role at the 5, but essentially is a playmaker - their big was looney
Lopez and Gasol is true, but before that it was the warriors - again without a strech 5

That is why i hate those kinds of discussion, when people dont even say things correctly, just to satisfy their false narrative.

You can win, without a strech 5, it was done time and time again. And to claim poeltl is just a bench player makes me question your sanity at this point.

[Shakril]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

I liked the way Gradey has played but a lot of these players listed at different tiers. Did you come to this conclusion cause of 20ppg on 58% TS in less than 20 games sample?

There is almost 0% chance he is ever as good as some of them. Guys like Middleton Klay and D-white have put up multi seasons of all star impact. Some of the other names only got to play those mins because they were a plus or strong plus on defense also.

why not? Do you think Derrick White was as good as he is now in year two? Or any of the other players that you mention.
Damn last year you all called him a bust, now you tell everybody he cant get better. What is with this board lately, that is talking down their own players that much.

[Scizzup]

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

I liked the way Gradey has played but a lot of these players listed at different tiers. Did you come to this conclusion cause of 20ppg on 58% TS in less than 20 games sample?

There is almost 0% chance he is ever as good as some of them. Guys like Middleton Klay and D-white have put up multi seasons of all star impact.

I came to this conclusion based on simple logic and by watching Gradey play.

Why is there a 0% chance? Take Klay as an example, he wasn't even in the league at 20.

Please edify for me why Klay at 21 putting up 12 ppg on 44% and 41% was a future all-star but Gradey at 20 putting up 19 ppg on 43% and 34% has a zero percent chance of archiving the same?

The point is, trying to project with certainty (ie. 0% chance) is just dumb.

At same age Klay was taking 11shots a game as a rookie. but improvements ain''t linear? what. SGA was averaging 11points at similar age. Gradey path to playing that type of role is becoming an average defender + more creation juice and that might not happen.

Actually looking at the list again seeing Rondo, maybe you meant the specific years quoted and not them in their prime? Even then 2022 Klay would still be tough for him to surpass. GSW won that year cause of defense and Klay while not in his prime was not a negative on defense in the playoffs. Gradey right now is a huge negative on defense if he is not a better self creator his best role might/should be off the bench on a true contender. But if you have 200008 Boston defense than sure he can start on it.

I don't see Gradey being as good as Middleton 21 or D-White last season. White was a legit all star level impact. He is a top 5 perimeter defender that gives you 16/5 assists on 61% TS.

Edit: You can score more than someone and still a be a worse player with regards to AG/Mikal and even Wiggins those years.

[earth007]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

Please stop posting. You are embarassing yourself.

[Thaddy]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

Every single player on that list was better athletically or had better physical attributes than Gradey. It is not absurb to say his athleticism won't improve from where it is now.

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

Please stop posting. You are embarassing yourself.

Okay lol

[deck]

I liked the way Gradey has played but a lot of these players listed at different tiers. Did you come to this conclusion cause of 20ppg on 58% TS in less than 20 games sample?

There is almost 0% chance he is ever as good as some of them. Guys like Middleton Klay and D-white have put up multi seasons of all star impact.

I came to this conclusion based on simple logic and by watching Gradey play.

Why is there a 0% chance? Take Klay as an example, he wasn't even in the league at 20.

Please edify for me why Klay at 21 putting up 12 ppg on 44% and 41% was a future all-star but Gradey at 20 putting up 19 ppg on 43% and 34% has a zero percent chance of archiving the same?

The point is, trying to project with certainty (ie. 0% chance) is just dumb.

At same age Klay was taking 11shots a game as a rookie. but improvements ain''t linear? what. SGA was averaging 11points at similar age. Gradey path to playing that type of role is becoming an average defender + more creation juice and that might not happen.

Actually looking at the list again seeing Rondo, maybe you meant the specific years quoted and not them in their prime? Even then 2022 Klay would still be tough for him to surpass. GSW won that year cause of defense and Klay while not in his prime was not a negative on defense in the playoffs. Gradey right now is a huge negative on defense if he is not a better self creator his best role might/should be off the bench on a true contender. But if you have 200008 Boston defense than sure he can start on it.

I don't see Gradey being as good as Middleton 21 or D-White last season. White was a legit all star level impact. He is a top 5 perimeter defender that gives you 16/5 assists on 61% TS.

Edit: You can score more than someone and still a be a worse player with regards to AG/Mikal and even Wiggins those years.

Of course I meant in the specific playoff year, not in their prime. I should think that is obvious.

You've really not responded to anything I have said. I only made the point that stating that 'Gradey cannot be a piece on a championship contending team' is clearly false. Remove Middleton and White if you like, it really doesn't change the point.

The other point you seem to be completely missing is that the post I was responding to is declaring Gradey's ceiling based on who he is right now. Compare this to Derrick White, as an example. In his second season, he was 24, a 6'4 shooting guard putting up 9pgg on 48%/34%/77%. Are you trying to say with a straight face that if we had 24 year old Derrick White on our team right now instead of Dick, Thaddy and yourself wouldn't be he saying the exact same thing, that White is not a piece of a contenting team? Come on man.. That is the point, no one was looking at White at 24 and saying he is going to be a critical piece of a championship team in 6 years. LOL. It's absurd that anyone is even debating this.

[Scizzup]

I came to this conclusion based on simple logic and by watching Gradey play.

Why is there a 0% chance? Take Klay as an example, he wasn't even in the league at 20.

Please edify for me why Klay at 21 putting up 12 ppg on 44% and 41% was a future all-star but Gradey at 20 putting up 19 ppg on 43% and 34% has a zero percent chance of archiving the same?

The point is, trying to project with certainty (ie. 0% chance) is just dumb.

At same age Klay was taking 11shots a game as a rookie. but improvements ain''t linear? what. SGA was averaging 11points at similar age. Gradey path to playing that type of role is becoming an average defender + more creation juice and that might not happen.

Actually looking at the list again seeing Rondo, maybe you meant the specific years quoted and not them in their prime? Even then 2022 Klay would still be tough for him to surpass. GSW won that year cause of defense and Klay while not in his prime was not a negative on defense in the playoffs. Gradey right now is a huge negative on defense if he is not a better self creator his best role might/should be off the bench on a true contender. But if you have 200008 Boston defense than sure he can start on it.

I don't see Gradey being as good as Middleton 21 or D-White last season. White was a legit all star level impact. He is a top 5 perimeter defender that gives you 16/5 assists on 61% TS.

Edit: You can score more than someone and still a be a worse player with regards to AG/Mikal and even Wiggins those years.

Of course I meant in the specific playoff year, not in their prime. I should think that is obvious.

You've really not responded to anything I have said. I only made the point that stating that 'Gradey cannot be a piece on a championship contending team' is clearly false. Remove Middleton and White if you like, it really doesn't change the point.

The other point you seem to be completely missing is that the post I was responding to is declaring Gradey's ceiling based on who he is right now. Compare this to Derrick White, as an example. In his second season, he was 24, a 6'4 shooting guard putting up 9pgg on 48%/34%/77%. Are you trying to say with a straight face that if we had 24 year old Derrick White on our team right now instead of Dick, Thaddy and yourself wouldn't be he saying the exact same thing, that White is not a piece of a contenting team? Come on man.. That is the point, no one was looking at White at 24 and saying he is going to be a critical piece of a championship team in 6 years. LOL. It's absurd that anyone is even debating this.

Yea that is my fault.

But no, I don't think Gradey will ever be a top 30-40 impact player even at his best which what D-White has been last 2 seasons and what Middleton was in 2021. To add, White always showed up well in advanced stats even on bad/mid spurs teams from his 2nd season and on. They typically won his minutes on the court even though he was averaging 10-13 ppg.


Gradey could start on a contender sure, I never argued that. I just thought you were comparing him to those names in a vacuum. it still would have to be a specific contender because roles matters. Danny was a starter on the 2019 team because he provided defense for a team that was a defense oriented in playoffs. As good as Reddick was to your offense in the regular season, it was probably tough for a contender to win with him because certain matchups would exploit him in playoffs (clippers) not enough elite perimeter defenders.

[Indeed]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

This is an absurd thing to say for a 20 year old player. It is certainly not apparent that Gradey could never be a starting player on an NBA championship team, you just feel that way because it fits a narrative that has nothing to do with the OP.

In terms of overall impact, Gradey can easily be as good or better than the following players, all of whom played starters minutes in the NBA finals:

2024 - Derrick White
2024 - PJ Washington
2024 - Derrik Jones JR

2023 - Aaron Gordon
2023 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2023 - Michael Porter Jr.
2023 - Gabe Vincent
2023 - Caleb Martin

2022 - Andrew Wiggins
2022 - Klay Thompson
2022 - Kevon Looney
2022 - Marcus Smart
2022 - Derrick White

2021 - PJ Tucker
2021 - Khris Middleton
2021 - Pat Connaughton
2021 - Jae Crowder
2021 - Mikal Bridges

2020 - Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
2020 - Rajon Rondo
2020 - Alex Caruso
2020 - Tyler Herro
2020 - Duncan Robinson
2020 - Jae Crowder


And the list goes on the further back we go... Consider further that you are making your assessment on Gradey based on the player he is at 20. If I just cherry pick one of these players to show how silly your post is, consider KCP. 2-time NBA champion, playing starters minutes both times, at age 20 he was slashing 6/2/0.7 on 36.6% / 31.9% / 77%

This persistent narrative of predicting that so and so is 'not a championship calibre player' is so silly.

I liked the way Gradey has played but a lot of these players listed at different tiers. Did you come to this conclusion cause of 20ppg on 58% TS in less than 20 games sample?

There is almost 0% chance he is ever as good as some of them. Guys like Middleton Klay and D-white have put up multi seasons of all star impact. Some of the other names only got to play those mins because they were a plus or strong plus on defense also.

Most of the players on this list seems to be a plus defender. There maybe exception, such as Herro?

Meanwhile, Dick can be a starter on a championship with either (and suppose both)
1) Improve his defense to at least average (he is far from being average)
2) improve his handle (comparing to Curry lite)

Both seems to be a bit of a reach to build around him. If we are not building around him, he will most likely need to be an average defender.

[Tripod]

Turned right into a Dick thread...lol.

1 year ago was in the GLeague

Now 2nd in PPG from his draft class behind a generational talent....and yet some think they know where he caps out at. Absurd.

[Indeed]

this thread is to post and discuss team stats as the season progresses. not sure if this thread will have legs but let's try.

after 13 games: ortg/drtg/net

overall: 109.4 (22nd) / 116.7 (26th) / -7.3 (26th)

home (6 games): 109.4 (26th) / 114.3 (20th) / -4.9 (24th)
away (7 games): 109.5 (19th) / 119.0 (28th) / -9.5 (27th)
clutch (5pt difference or less: 6 games): 101.7 (26th) / 129.1 (23rd) / -26.5 (28th)

1st quarter: 109.2 (18th) / 122.5 (30th) / -13.3 (27th)
2nd quarter: 104.8 (25th) / 108.3 (11th) / -3.5 (18th)
3rd quarter: 116.7 (9th) / 116.9 (21st) / 0.2 (16th)
4th quarter: 107.2 (27th) / 120.3 (24th) / -13.1 (29th)

our top 5 net rtg players:

mogbo: 104.6 / 105.7 / -1.0
gradey: 113.6 / 116.1 / -2.5
yak: 113.0 / 116.9 / -4.0
davion: 109.6 / 114.3 / -4.7
boucher: 109.4 / 115.9 / -6.5

tough to say if these team stats are going to stay the same since we are battling so many injuries. we start and close games very poorly - and eye test backs that up. absolutely dreadful in clutch situations. it's the middle of the game where we come back and make game interesting.

so our 3rd quarters are the best, 4th quarters are the wrost - meets the eyetest

Or we were lucky in the 2nd quarter to be with 11th DRtg, otherwise, it should be in the norm of 20th DRtg.
3rd quarter ORtg is also a surprised, but I do see some adjustment from the eye test.

[bluerap23]

Turned right into a Dick thread...lol.

1 year ago was in the GLeague

Now 2nd in PPG from his draft class behind a generational talent....and yet some think they know where he caps out at. Absurd.

Typical raptor board bs. Starts season hot and he is the next MJ. Has 2 bad games and he isn't a starter. sheesh

[djsunyc]

changing trend for defense?

last 3 games ortg/drtg/net

102.7 (27th) / 107.6 (7th) / -4.9 (19th)

there has been some press about darko and his defense. since then, our defense has been much better. unfortunately, our offense has cratered.

[Ell Curry]

We had the hardest schedule in the league so far. It is good for our development and we've been short of our two best players for almost the entire season so far.

I would say it's apparent that Gradey isn't a starting caliber player on a NBA championship. As much as I like him I don't see the athleticism concerns getting better and that will affect his finishing ability, defense, and I don't see his FT rate staying as high as it's recently been. He would be best used in a role like Boucher's where he's a gunner off the bench.

I also view Poeltl as a bench piece. The Celtics have Porzingis, Nuggets had Jokic, Warriors had Green, Bucks had Lopez, Lakes have Davis, and we had Gasol. Those are the most recent champs and they all had stretch bigs. A stretch big opens up the floor for the primary creator a lot more. Poeltl creates space within his means but it's not enough.

We should be tanking, gathering picks, and improving the value of pieces like Barrett, Poeltl, Brown, Olynyk, and others who won't be here long term. None of the guys I mentioned are championship pieces.

Too early to say about Gradey. It's very possible he's a 6th man type, but he might be a 3rd option on O, worst defender in the starting lineup team on a contender. He's only 20, has half a decade to learn some tricks to survive on D and get stronger. If he's a 48-38-90 guy, he'll be good enough to be a starter. If he's more like a 47-36-85 guy, even on high volume from 3, yeah he'll be a 6th or 7th man type.

Agree completely on Poeltl. The 21.5 minutes a game Looney played in the 2022 finals is close to his minutes limit on a contender unless the 1-4 players are the best 1-4 combination in the entire league (so, current Boston would still be favorites with Poeltl as the center instead of Porzingis, but less heavy favorites to repeat). He's better than Looney, so maybe 25 minutes or so, but you'd certainly want and quite possibly neeed a legit smallball 5 option too I think.

I think adding a shooting 5 should be our #2 priority after the star 2/3 we need to get in this upcoming draft. One of Barrett/Dick and that shooting 5 (or Poeltl if that 5 is a starter) can carry a lot of the bench scoring load along with one starter remaining on the court.

[Scase]

Turned right into a Dick thread...lol.

1 year ago was in the GLeague

Now 2nd in PPG from his draft class behind a generational talent....and yet some think they know where he caps out at. Absurd.

Typical raptor board bs. Starts season hot and he is the next MJ. Has 2 bad games and he isn't a starter. sheesh

You'd think they'd have learned from calling him a bust 20 games into his career.