RealGM

DelAbbot wrote:I saw this on the GB and am reposting to spur discussions about our current and ex players

Shakril wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:I saw this on the GB and am reposting to spur discussions about our current and ex players

Why are there 2 different tables saying the same thing, just with different players?

MoneyBall wrote:I don't know much about the LEBRON stat, but it seems like it gets skewed easily by overall team performance. Am I really supposed to believe that 4 of the top 13 players in the EC are on the Cavs?

Is this a measure of player talent?

No! LEBRON, like all other impact metrics, are estimates of the total impact a player has on their team. This is a function of their talent, role/usage/deployment, team scheme, and fit within lineups.

Because of this, we may see players higher or lower than their true talent levels based on their individual circumstances. We might see role players perfectly optimized show up higher than they would on another team. We might also see players used poorly show up lower than their talent might suggest they should be.

Change the context even within the same season and you can impact LEBRON values. Hassan Whiteside, for example, becomes a far less positively impactful defender in a playoff environment where he’s targeted more in ball screens and in isolation. But for his 2019-20 as a whole, his defense was positively impactful at a high rate given his role and situation.

ForeverTFC wrote:

MoneyBall wrote:I don't know much about the LEBRON stat, but it seems like it gets skewed easily by overall team performance. Am I really supposed to believe that 4 of the top 13 players in the EC are on the Cavs?

Is this a measure of player talent?

No! LEBRON, like all other impact metrics, are estimates of the total impact a player has on their team. This is a function of their talent, role/usage/deployment, team scheme, and fit within lineups.

Because of this, we may see players higher or lower than their true talent levels based on their individual circumstances. We might see role players perfectly optimized show up higher than they would on another team. We might also see players used poorly show up lower than their talent might suggest they should be.

Change the context even within the same season and you can impact LEBRON values. Hassan Whiteside, for example, becomes a far less positively impactful defender in a playoff environment where he’s targeted more in ball screens and in isolation. But for his 2019-20 as a whole, his defense was positively impactful at a high rate given his role and situation.

ForeverTFC wrote:

MoneyBall wrote:I don't know much about the LEBRON stat, but it seems like it gets skewed easily by overall team performance. Am I really supposed to believe that 4 of the top 13 players in the EC are on the Cavs?

Is this a measure of player talent?

No! LEBRON, like all other impact metrics, are estimates of the total impact a player has on their team. This is a function of their talent, role/usage/deployment, team scheme, and fit within lineups.

Because of this, we may see players higher or lower than their true talent levels based on their individual circumstances. We might see role players perfectly optimized show up higher than they would on another team. We might also see players used poorly show up lower than their talent might suggest they should be.

Change the context even within the same season and you can impact LEBRON values. Hassan Whiteside, for example, becomes a far less positively impactful defender in a playoff environment where he’s targeted more in ball screens and in isolation. But for his 2019-20 as a whole, his defense was positively impactful at a high rate given his role and situation.

ItsDanger wrote:Seems like PGs get slammed on the Lebron-D stat.

YogurtProducer wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Seems like PGs get slammed on the Lebron-D stat.

Well, yeah. PGs are typically some of your worst defenders with no size to switch.

Some are good though. White and Mitcehll on the top list are essentially PGs.

FVV is at +1.12 on the 2nd, Harden at 0.95,

ItsDanger wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:Seems like PGs get slammed on the Lebron-D stat.

Well, yeah. PGs are typically some of your worst defenders with no size to switch.

Some are good though. White and Mitcehll on the top list are essentially PGs.

FVV is at +1.12 on the 2nd, Harden at 0.95,

Then provide a stat by position, its clearly biased in that area. Don't bother arguing this point either.

YogurtProducer wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:Well, yeah. PGs are typically some of your worst defenders with no size to switch.

Some are good though. White and Mitcehll on the top list are essentially PGs.

FVV is at +1.12 on the 2nd, Harden at 0.95,

Then provide a stat by position, its clearly biased in that area. Don't bother arguing this point either.

Sure, you can easily filter it if your like.

But if you read the table you can see that PGs also have drastically more control over the offensive part of the game, and as a result have higher LEBRON-O ratings, and the whole stat is sorted by LEBRON (not only O or D) and is just providing those stats for informative purposes.

Not sure why I cant argue the point - you just really hate and cant stand anyone disputing your constant (false) claims.

Edit: The stats also pretty clearly show how it is hard for one person to impact D, as much as they can impact O.