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There's already much discussion, that Jakob is prolly raps most important player, and keeping them competitive. The screening, defensive rotations, easy high percentage put shot....

but look at those mins.....
For Darko's heavy movement system, i just don't think is sustainable for a 7-footer....lately he's been averaging 34 mins..
eventually he's going to get hurt, and he'll need rest honestly


season GP GS MIN
2016-17 54 4 11.6
2017-18 82 0 18.6
2018-19 77 24 16.5
2019-20 66 18 17.7
2020-21 69 51 26.7
2021-22 68 67 29
2022-23 46 46 26.1
2022-23 26 25 27.2
2023-24 50 50 26.4
2024-25 23 23 32.7

I think those will probs come down when KO is fit to play

Give him 2 weeks off and boost Olynyk Bouchers stats during trade season.

ALL IN FAVOUR SAY AYE

He's looking a little tired lately. Maybe some load management is in order here.

The Poeltl situation feels like we are tempting fate. He's never played these types of minutes and even Nick "run players into the ground" Nurse only played him 27mpg. If he gets injured that will put us into the tank for sure (good for tWo but I don't want to see anyone get injured). People have also talked about how good he's been this year but he's pretty much just putting up his normal per 36 numbers but his rim protection has really slipped from his SAS days.

Look at his rim DFG% over the past few years:

2020/21: -9.7%
2021/22: -8.5%
2022/23: -4.1%
2023/24: -6%
2024/25: -2%

That -2% number is not good. Is his defense slipping because we are overplaying him? If we want to have a competent defense we need him in top form and his current rim protection numbers are not good at all.

If Olynyk doesn't get back soon I suspect we are going to wear Poeltl out.

MessiahUjiri wrote:Give him 2 weeks off and boost Olynyk Bouchers stats during trade season.

ALL IN FAVOUR SAY AYE

Nay!
Trade Poeltl while his value is near peak since coming back to us from SAS. Keep Olynyk and Boucher the tank commanders (they are not fetching you anything anyways)

It isn't sustainable. He should be traded soon considering the state of the team and the phase we're in. We are a rebuilding team.

Probably not sustainable and he will run into injuries and we'll look miserable during that time. Wouldn't be a bad idea to sit him once he starts having nagging injuries to ensure his long-term health since we all know we aren't doing much this season. Ideally, Quickley will pick his fragile ass up before then so we can see how this team performs at near full strength and FO can have better idea of what this team needs.

Not sure what trading him accomplishes if the idea is to tank for one season and try to get right back into it because you don't want to linger in this state too long and we've already been there way too long. Obtaining a big like him is harder than people think. I still hate the idea of what getting him meant with passion but trading him away is a totally different matter altogether now that he's here. If anything, this team needs to add another competent big that can play 20-30 minutes at least to have something sustainable going.

32 minutes when your back up C is out is not really that bad. Ideally he gets lower and you can see signs of fatigue but I'm not concerned

If 33 minutes a game isn't sustainable then somethings wrong with you lol.

anotherhomer wrote:There's already much discussion, that Jakob is prolly raps most important player, and keeping them competitive. The screening, defensive rotations, easy high percentage put shot....

but look at those mins.....
For Darko's heavy movement system, i just don't think is sustainable for a 7-footer....lately he's been averaging 34 mins..
eventually he's going to get hurt, and he'll need rest honestly


season GP GS MIN
2016-17 54 4 11.6
2017-18 82 0 18.6
2018-19 77 24 16.5
2019-20 66 18 17.7
2020-21 69 51 26.7
2021-22 68 67 29
2022-23 46 46 26.1
2022-23 26 25 27.2
2023-24 50 50 26.4
2024-25 23 23 32.7

34 mins is something that evrey Player should be able to play - even a 7 footer. Poeltl is on top of that a rather healthy player. The worst injury he has ever had was this year in january, where he missed significant time. Mostly he was either ill for a game or 2 (like against OKC or during covid) or as small injuries that are healed after a week or so.

When it comes to the heavy movement, it actual suits him as he is rather nimble for a player his size and he doesnt overextend his body with unnecessary athletics like flashy dunks, alley-oops and so on. That also helps to maintain your body.

ConSarnit wrote:The Poeltl situation feels like we are tempting fate. He's never played these types of minutes and even Nick "run players into the ground" Nurse only played him 27mpg. If he gets injured that will put us into the tank for sure (good for tWo but I don't want to see anyone get injured). People have also talked about how good he's been this year but he's pretty much just putting up his normal per 36 numbers but his rim protection has really slipped from his SAS days.

Look at his rim DFG% over the past few years:

2020/21: -9.7%
2021/22: -8.5%
2022/23: -4.1%
2023/24: -6%
2024/25: -2%

That -2% number is not good. Is his defense slipping because we are overplaying him? If we want to have a competent defense we need him in top form and his current rim protection numbers are not good at all.

If Olynyk doesn't get back soon I suspect we are going to wear Poeltl out.

This comparing apples to oranges. SAS and TOR have played/playing different styles. Torontos is more uptempo and SAS is rather slow at the time he played there. It was even one of the things he mentioned when he came back to Toronto that the style of play is different, especially on Defense. Of course, Numbers will suffer on the defensive end. On Offense he was more a focus in SAS the last 2 years, cause it was him, Murray and White as the top 3 Players later on Keldon Johnson. Essentially his role evolved over the years.

Thats the biggest mistakes most fans do. They just take numbers as explanation, but ignore what actual happens on the court.
He has his best year in his NBA Career right now, numbers dont always reflect that, especially for a Guy like Poeltl where many things that he does dont even show up in stats properly. Opposing Coaches/Players are lauding his play this year a lot.

Nurse simply wasnt able to use Poeltl properly. He had many headscratching decision the 30 games he had him.

DelAbbot wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Give him 2 weeks off and boost Olynyk Bouchers stats during trade season.

ALL IN FAVOUR SAY AYE

Nay!
Trade Poeltl while his value is near peak since coming back to us from SAS. Keep Olynyk and Boucher the tank commanders (they are not fetching you anything anyways)

Good Luck finding a replacement. Until you have one Barnes, RJ and IQ will ask to be traded or dont resign. Similar to the Situation with FVV, OG and Siakam. It would just be repeating the same mistakes.

He's been playing more minutes because A) he's been effective in his role, B) with KO injured there were more C minutes to soak. With KO back I can see his minutes scaled back a bit.

Tor_Raps wrote:If 33 minutes a game isn't sustainable then somethings wrong with you lol.

The question is, that why in 9 years of being an NBA player, no team has ever put him in for this many minutes. Conditioning thing, just not that good, something else entirely? His defensive numbers slipping this year can't be a coincidence either, but maybe it is tied to all the injuries, who knows.

Either way, no one has ever played him this much before, and it's not like he's playing significantly better than in the past, he's just on a really bad team that was limited due to injuries and became more of a focal point.

Shakril wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:The Poeltl situation feels like we are tempting fate. He's never played these types of minutes and even Nick "run players into the ground" Nurse only played him 27mpg. If he gets injured that will put us into the tank for sure (good for tWo but I don't want to see anyone get injured). People have also talked about how good he's been this year but he's pretty much just putting up his normal per 36 numbers but his rim protection has really slipped from his SAS days.

Look at his rim DFG% over the past few years:

2020/21: -9.7%
2021/22: -8.5%
2022/23: -4.1%
2023/24: -6%
2024/25: -2%

That -2% number is not good. Is his defense slipping because we are overplaying him? If we want to have a competent defense we need him in top form and his current rim protection numbers are not good at all.

If Olynyk doesn't get back soon I suspect we are going to wear Poeltl out.

This comparing apples to oranges. SAS and TOR have played/playing different styles. Torontos is more uptempo and SAS is rather slow at the time he played there. It was even one of the things he mentioned when he came back to Toronto that the style of play is different, especially on Defense. Of course, Numbers will suffer on the defensive end. On Offense he was more a focus in SAS the last 2 years, cause it was him, Murray and White as the top 3 Players later on Keldon Johnson. Essentially his role evolved over the years.

Thats the biggest mistakes most fans do. They just take numbers as explanation, but ignore what actual happens on the court.
He has his best year in his NBA Career right now, numbers dont always reflect that, especially for a Guy like Poeltl where many things that he does dont even show up in stats properly. Opposing Coaches/Players are lauding his play this year a lot.

Nurse simply wasnt able to use Poeltl properly. He had many headscratching decision the 30 games he had him.

Pace by season:

2021/22 Spurs: 101.5
2022/23 Spurs: 101.6 (pre trade deadline)
2022/23 Raptors: 97.5 (post trade deadline)
2023/24 Raptors: 99.9
2024/25 Raptors: 100.2

But please go on about how the Spurs played at a slower pace.

Also, please explain how if he had more responsibility on offense with the Spurs his rim protection numbers were better? According to your own logic, increased offensive load should have made him worse defensively.

Explain how style of play effects his rim protection numbers? These stats are clear cut: when he is close to an opposing defender they are shooting better against him here than they did in SAS.

Somehow every point you made was wrong (which is the least shocking thing of the century).

DG88 wrote:He's been playing more minutes because A) he's been effective in his role, B) with KO injured there were more C minutes to soak. With KO back I can see his minutes scaled back a bit.

His efficiency is down slightly and his rim protection numbers are way down. How has he been more effective? His job is to anchor the defense and he hasn't been able to do so at all. Agree with the fact that he's playing more because we don't have other options.

Shakril wrote:

DelAbbot wrote:

MessiahUjiri wrote:Give him 2 weeks off and boost Olynyk Bouchers stats during trade season.

ALL IN FAVOUR SAY AYE

Nay!
Trade Poeltl while his value is near peak since coming back to us from SAS. Keep Olynyk and Boucher the tank commanders (they are not fetching you anything anyways)

Good Luck finding a replacement. Until you have one Barnes, RJ and IQ will ask to be traded or dont resign. Similar to the Situation with FVV, OG and Siakam. It would just be repeating the same mistakes.

We should not have traded Siakam if that was the case.
Once we traded away Siakam, Poeltl should have followed. However, it is likely lack of teams interested with his inability to shoot free throw for close games at that salary.

Scase wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:If 33 minutes a game isn't sustainable then somethings wrong with you lol.

The question is, that why in 9 years of being an NBA player, no team has ever put him in for this many minutes. Conditioning thing, just not that good, something else entirely? His defensive numbers slipping this year can't be a coincidence either, but maybe it is tied to all the injuries, who knows.

Either way, no one has ever played him this much before, and it's not like he's playing significantly better than in the past, he's just on a really bad team that was limited due to injuries and became more of a focal point.

His overall effectiveness is probably peaking at less than 30 minutes. I'd argue he's playing better this year and now that he's hitting free throws respectably he's able to stay on the court later in close games. If he wasn't that good, contenders wouldn't want him. They tend to want good players.

ATLTimekeeper wrote:

Scase wrote:

Tor_Raps wrote:If 33 minutes a game isn't sustainable then somethings wrong with you lol.

The question is, that why in 9 years of being an NBA player, no team has ever put him in for this many minutes. Conditioning thing, just not that good, something else entirely? His defensive numbers slipping this year can't be a coincidence either, but maybe it is tied to all the injuries, who knows.

Either way, no one has ever played him this much before, and it's not like he's playing significantly better than in the past, he's just on a really bad team that was limited due to injuries and became more of a focal point.

His overall effectiveness is probably peaking at less than 30 minutes. I'd argue he's playing better this year and now that he's hitting free throws respectably he's able to stay on the court later in close games. If he wasn't that good, contenders wouldn't want him. They tend to want good players.

I don't think he's playing better this year, he's just being used more. His FG/TS% is down well below last year and his career averages, and while his FT% is up which is great, his overall efficiency is down, which is to be expected with increased volume. But more concerning, he's been regressing defensively, so I'm not sure this is a particularly good year, but it's not bad.

Have we heard any real rumours of contenders wanting him? Or do you just mean hypothetically?