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The Oklamhoma City Thunder endured two grueling rebuild seasons, 2020-2021 and 2021-2022, in which they finished with 22-50 and 24-58 records. They were often blow out and in fact experienced the worst blowout in NBA history, by 73 points, losing 152-79 to the Memphis Grizzlies. For two seasons, they were absolutely humiliated.



Furthermore, many of their fans wanted head coach Mark Daigneault fired and Shai traded, or they just constantly slandered them. Of course, both Daigneault is recognized as a solid coach and Shai as the MVP/superstar level player he is. But that wasn't always the case. Considering just how incredible Shai is, the slander against him from some of the fans was pretty wild.

Is Shai a little overrated?
He’s the primary option, and still doesn’t seem to have made any improvements in his game and is still pretty passive. I think everyone just needs to be realistic about him. At best, he’s a third option on a championship team. But I don’t think you build the whole enchilada around him when Baze and Dort are outplaying him most nights.

I realize that’s going to be unpopular, but I think it’s gotta become a realization. He’s a good player, but not this franchise-altering guy

I think we can all agree we shouldnt be planning on him being the primary option in the future but he will be a big piece for us and could possibly be a second option. He can come off as a little overrated i guess cause hes our best player and we stan him so much.

Yeah I’m not saying he isn’t part of the puzzle, but people don’t need to act like he’s going to be the savior. He’s not. He’s a secondary option to whoever we draft

He's currently and 18/6 type of guy. We need him to be a 24/8 type guy. Sometimes I feel he's on track and sometimes I feel he's not going to be that guy. Hard to get a read. Fringe All star potential I think. I don't think he'll be superstar level.

That being said, he's not a KD, Harden, Luka type scorer, and probably never will be. The player that I think of most when I watch Shai is Ginobili. Crafty, below the rim playmaker with good court awareness. Capable on a given night of being the best player on the floor. That's probably his ceiling. And if it is (and if he gets there) holy ****, that's incredible. That's a huge piece in building a contending team.

The truth is that even if we hit big on the next couple drafts we're probably still going to be 2-4 years from being a contender.

I like Shai but I still believe Bazley is the player with the most potential. The offense needs to flow through him a little more.Bazley kept us in the game today until later in the 3rd and 4th quarter. The team is still figuring out the dynamics of the offense but Bazley needs to at least be the 2nd option.

link

These posts look absolutely ridiculous in hindsight. Nonetheless, the rebuild payed off for them and it's going to pay off for us. Losing and tanking can be absolutely miserable, especially when you get blown out big time. And we've been rebuilding now for more than one season, however at this point, as difficult as it might be for some fans, just have some patience and perspective. We don't have a very good team and even at full health if we experience 1-2 injuries, the team falls apart. We're almost half way through the season and getting closer to the trading deadline. Whether you're all for the tank or not, just remember that:

• we're getting closer to turning the corner (going from suckage to an up-and-coming team with a mid record, just like OKC in 2022-2023 when they finished 40-42)
• that the team has endured endless injuries to our most skilled and important players: rebuilding teams that are decimated by injuries can't really win many games at all, especially when the most talented players aren't playing, leading to huge blow outs
• we have really young and hungry guys who are going to be terrific rotation players and roles players for us, with Mogbo, Battle, Shead and of course Ja'Kobe
• the growth and development of Scottie, Gradey, Ochai, Shead, Battle and Ja'Kobe is really exciting: Scottie's handle looks much better and his mid-range game is coming along very nicely and is on his way to becoming a three-level scorer; Gradey as well looks like he could be a three-level scorer, his conditining is much better but of course he really needs to work on his defensive abilities; Ochai is rounding into a 3&D guy for us, although his defence and half-court offensive contributions need more consistency; Shead and Mogbo are clearly getting better but still need more refinement with the 905; and of course Battle is not only a decent shooter, but very scrappy and hustles hard and you can tell he wants to be better on the defensive end.
• Plus of course RJ. Whatever you may think of RJ, you can't deny that he's a much better player than he was on New York, distributing very effectively and improved efficiency.
• these guys work so hard and are very likeable

And of course Darko. The entire emphasis for this season has been placed on development and rebuilding (and not winning), specifically improving everyone's skillsets and seeing what and where their limitations are. For example this is why we're seeing RJ as a distributor and Scottie playing in more of a wing role at times, in the mid-range area and shooting many threes as opposed to operating in the low post. Darko has done not only a masterful job of developing the players, but also establishing a new culture and identity for the team, in which they work hard, really enjoy playing with one another and never give up. This is such an important step and development for the team, with Nurse abandoning the team in a final miserable season in which his odious and toxic behaviour is not missed.

I can understand why, and I think most people understand why fans can get frustrated. Losing absolutley sucks and obviously is the complete opposite of fun. But just have some patience and perspective. We're in a very similar position to OKC, we have a very competent front office with a clear history and record of drafting very well and we have a very young team that still needs to grow, develop and add substantial talent. Just remember though that there's only another half season or so of this emphasis on development and then next season the priority will switch to winning and competing; obviously not for a championship, but moreso for a playoff seed or even the play-in. And besides, things could be much worse: the Chicago Bulls are in mediocre treadmill hell because their front office continues to procrastinate and hold out hope for some miraculous winning streak; the Sacramento Kings made poor off season moves and appear to be treadmilling badly, while the Indiana Pacers may already have found themselves within the treadmill purgatory. We (finally) made the tough choices and are now in hot pursuit of a top five draft pick in a really exciting draft. The light is definitely there at the end of the tunnel.

Now they saying we going to be a top team in the league

Shai was in his second season, 21 years old, averaged 19 PPG 47.1% from the field, 34.7% from 3, 3.3 ASTS

by his third season, he was 23.7 PPG, 50.8% from the field, 41.8% from 3, 5.9 ASTS at 22 years old

We don't have anyone on this trajectory, but yeah..there's nothing wrong with where the team is at. Need some star potential from the 2025/2026 drafts, and it's fine if we build a Boston or Cleveland type team where there's no true superstar.

People just gotta learn to relax. Hopefully those fans who made those horrible posts learned to calm down

RoteSchroder wrote:Shai was in his second season, 21 years old, averaged 19 PPG 47.1% from the field, 34.7% from 3, 3.3 ASTS

by his third season, he was 23.7 PPG, 50.8% from the field, 41.8% from 3, 5.9 ASTS at 22 years old

We don't have anyone on this trajectory, but yeah..there's nothing wrong with where the team is at. Need some star potential from the 2025/2026 drafts, and it's fine if we build a Boston or Cleveland type team where there's no true superstar.

Scottie was an all-star averaging 20/8/6 with 2.8 stocks in his third season.

Obviously the skillet is different than SGA, and I don't think Scottie has MVP upside, but he certainly has perennial All-NBA upside, which makes him a great foundational piece.

earthtone wrote:

RoteSchroder wrote:Shai was in his second season, 21 years old, averaged 19 PPG 47.1% from the field, 34.7% from 3, 3.3 ASTS

by his third season, he was 23.7 PPG, 50.8% from the field, 41.8% from 3, 5.9 ASTS at 22 years old

We don't have anyone on this trajectory, but yeah..there's nothing wrong with where the team is at. Need some star potential from the 2025/2026 drafts, and it's fine if we build a Boston or Cleveland type team where there's no true superstar.

Scottie was an all-star averaging 20/8/6 with 2.8 stocks in his third season.

Obviously the skillet is different than SGA, and I don't think Scottie has MVP upside, but he certainly has perennial All-NBA upside, which makes him a great foundational piece.

yeah, hence not having anyone on SGA's trajectory

An all-NBA player like Siakam, Derozan, Lowry is perfectly fine, never said otherwise. Tatum/Brown level, even better.

It's nothing against raptors fans, but reality is the majority of the world population are just ordinary people who are neither smart enough nor have much vision. They think $100 in the hand now is more valuable than $1000 a year later

RoteSchroder wrote:

earthtone wrote:

RoteSchroder wrote:Shai was in his second season, 21 years old, averaged 19 PPG 47.1% from the field, 34.7% from 3, 3.3 ASTS

by his third season, he was 23.7 PPG, 50.8% from the field, 41.8% from 3, 5.9 ASTS at 22 years old

We don't have anyone on this trajectory, but yeah..there's nothing wrong with where the team is at. Need some star potential from the 2025/2026 drafts, and it's fine if we build a Boston or Cleveland type team where there's no true superstar.

Scottie was an all-star averaging 20/8/6 with 2.8 stocks in his third season.

Obviously the skillet is different than SGA, and I don't think Scottie has MVP upside, but he certainly has perennial All-NBA upside, which makes him a great foundational piece.

yeah, hence not having anyone on SGA's trajectory

An all-NBA player like Siakam, Derozan, Lowry is perfectly fine, never said otherwise. Tatum/Brown level, even better.

Just wanna say that Tatum and Brown are so **** overrated because they have a stacked supporting cast.

Potential wrote:People just gotta learn to relax. Hopefully those fans who made those horrible posts learned to calm down

Reality is no one has a clue what the future in the NBA will look like

The problem to this OKC comp is that Masai only has a contract till 2026. So, the idea that we have unlimited time just isn't true.

The next guy might not want any of this. It's not his vision.

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The problem to this OKC comp is that Masai only has a contract till 2026. So, the idea that we have unlimited time just isn't true.

The next guy might not want any of this. It's not his vision.

So now we're worrying what the next potential GM's gameplan is?

Raptors Realtor wrote:

Harcore Fenton Mun wrote:The problem to this OKC comp is that Masai only has a contract till 2026. So, the idea that we have unlimited time just isn't true.

The next guy might not want any of this. It's not his vision.

So now we're worrying what the next potential GM's gameplan is?

No, we're making plans for the guy we don't know yet.

YogurtProducer wrote:

RoteSchroder wrote:

earthtone wrote:Scottie was an all-star averaging 20/8/6 with 2.8 stocks in his third season.

Obviously the skillet is different than SGA, and I don't think Scottie has MVP upside, but he certainly has perennial All-NBA upside, which makes him a great foundational piece.

yeah, hence not having anyone on SGA's trajectory

An all-NBA player like Siakam, Derozan, Lowry is perfectly fine, never said otherwise. Tatum/Brown level, even better.

Just wanna say that Tatum and Brown are so **** overrated because they have a stacked supporting cast.

Tatum's averaging 28/9.5/5.5 on 60 TS%..that has got to be tier 2 level. I think it would be really hard to make a case for him being a #3 guy or tier 3 player.

He's pretty much never in top 5 considerations (Giannis, Shai, Embiid, Doncic, Jokic). So tier 2 seems just about fine to me.

RoteSchroder wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

RoteSchroder wrote:
yeah, hence not having anyone on SGA's trajectory

An all-NBA player like Siakam, Derozan, Lowry is perfectly fine, never said otherwise. Tatum/Brown level, even better.

Just wanna say that Tatum and Brown are so **** overrated because they have a stacked supporting cast.

Tatum's averaging 28/9.5/5.5 on 60 TS%..that has got to be tier 2 level. I think it would be really hard to make a case for him being a #3 guy or tier 3 player.

He's pretty much never in top 5 considerations (Giannis, Shai, Embiid, Doncic, Jokic). So tier 2 seems just about fine to me.

I think there a number of guys we consider tier 3 that would put up huge numbers if they got to play with Jrue/White/Porzingis/Horford/Brown/Prichard etc. Just seems like a guy to me that is way overrated because of his supporting cast.

Rabid fans of any team in any sport have been fine with a .235 record......exactly 0% of the time lol. Nothing worse than an apathetic fanbase IMO. Hot takes are part of fandom.

But yeah, things are looking up. The players we care about the most have looked fine-to-good, and the ones we don't care about are seemingly on their way out (Brown, Boucher). Bring on the draft.

Funny to see the forumer instinct to call [star player] a 3rd option or 6th man goes across fanbases.

Just needed a post nitpicking Shai’s biomechanics.

YogurtProducer wrote:

RoteSchroder wrote:

earthtone wrote:Scottie was an all-star averaging 20/8/6 with 2.8 stocks in his third season.

Obviously the skillet is different than SGA, and I don't think Scottie has MVP upside, but he certainly has perennial All-NBA upside, which makes him a great foundational piece.

yeah, hence not having anyone on SGA's trajectory

An all-NBA player like Siakam, Derozan, Lowry is perfectly fine, never said otherwise. Tatum/Brown level, even better.

Just wanna say that Tatum and Brown are so **** overrated because they have a stacked supporting cast.

Naa come on, how can you say they are overrated? Sure they have a stacked team but that doesn’t change how talented they are. Especially Tatum. Not too long ago they were in a game 7 against prime LeBron.. leading as rookies

You can make a case for Brown being overrated cause of his ridiculous contract

Well-said. A perfectly well-managed developmental season is not an easy task as we've seen and they won't please everyone. Even if they totally bottom out they/we will still ultimately will be at the mercy of the lotto gawds, so no point in kvetching too much. It's not as if they're not already losing in historically bad ways as is. And they can't help if other teams like the Pels have had a voodoo hex placed on them.

The point about OKC is a big one because the journey (and the good/bad/ugly) is supposed to be the fun part of things, not just the final destination. There will be growing pains, not everything will go perfectly, but they'll probably have a top 5-10 pick, an early SRP and two more FRP next season to add to this young core. There is a point to things. Now who knows how that will shake out, but they will probably be better than this. And as I've said previously, 2019 and even the next season before covid hit, isn't as sweet without all those years preceeding it.

And I think having superstars are obviously important but no star does it alone. Kawhi didn't do it alone. Neither did Jordan, Kobe, Curry, Russell, LeBron, Magic, Bird, etc. Pretty much every top team and eventual champion is ridiculously stacked and its always been that way. How good would Scottie look if he got to consistently play alongside 2/3/4 other all star caliber players?

ImaBeatDatAzz wrote:

YogurtProducer wrote:

RoteSchroder wrote:
yeah, hence not having anyone on SGA's trajectory

An all-NBA player like Siakam, Derozan, Lowry is perfectly fine, never said otherwise. Tatum/Brown level, even better.

Just wanna say that Tatum and Brown are so **** overrated because they have a stacked supporting cast.

Naa come on, how can you say they are overrated? Sure they have a stacked team but that doesn’t change how talented they are. Especially Tatum. Not too long ago they were in a game 7 against prime LeBron.. leading as rookies

You can make a case for Brown being overrated cause of his ridiculous contract

Leading?

The 2016-17 Celtics went to the ECF before Tatum was drafted, and with Brown being the 9th man.

So yeah, them making the ECF again in 17/18 when Tatum was a rookie isn't entirely impressive when they both walked onto stacked teams as rookies.

Here is the hot take, you can take many different 3/4 combos and replace Tatum/Brown and they still would be contenders beside Jrue/White/Kristaps who all are all-star caliber players, as well as with Horford as their 6th man.

LIke I dont think Brown/Tatum suck by any means, but I also think they are very much propped up due to their supporting cast. We literally have never seen those 2 play on a team that didn't have a great cast around them literally ever. I really don't think they (especially Brown) are year-in year-out consensus all-nba talents.

Mr Funk wrote:The Oklamhoma City Thunder endured two grueling rebuild seasons, 2020-2021 and 2021-2022, in which they finished with 22-50 and 24-58 records. They were often blow out and in fact experienced the worst blowout in NBA history, by 73 points, losing 152-79 to the Memphis Grizzlies. For two seasons, they were absolutely humiliated.



Furthermore, many of their fans wanted head coach Mark Daigneault fired and Shai traded, or they just constantly slandered them. Of course, both Daigneault is recognized as a solid coach and Shai as the MVP/superstar level player he is. But that wasn't always the case. Considering just how incredible Shai is, the slander against him from some of the fans was pretty wild.

Is Shai a little overrated?
He’s the primary option, and still doesn’t seem to have made any improvements in his game and is still pretty passive. I think everyone just needs to be realistic about him. At best, he’s a third option on a championship team. But I don’t think you build the whole enchilada around him when Baze and Dort are outplaying him most nights.

I realize that’s going to be unpopular, but I think it’s gotta become a realization. He’s a good player, but not this franchise-altering guy

I think we can all agree we shouldnt be planning on him being the primary option in the future but he will be a big piece for us and could possibly be a second option. He can come off as a little overrated i guess cause hes our best player and we stan him so much.

Yeah I’m not saying he isn’t part of the puzzle, but people don’t need to act like he’s going to be the savior. He’s not. He’s a secondary option to whoever we draft

He's currently and 18/6 type of guy. We need him to be a 24/8 type guy. Sometimes I feel he's on track and sometimes I feel he's not going to be that guy. Hard to get a read. Fringe All star potential I think. I don't think he'll be superstar level.

That being said, he's not a KD, Harden, Luka type scorer, and probably never will be. The player that I think of most when I watch Shai is Ginobili. Crafty, below the rim playmaker with good court awareness. Capable on a given night of being the best player on the floor. That's probably his ceiling. And if it is (and if he gets there) holy ****, that's incredible. That's a huge piece in building a contending team.

The truth is that even if we hit big on the next couple drafts we're probably still going to be 2-4 years from being a contender.

I like Shai but I still believe Bazley is the player with the most potential. The offense needs to flow through him a little more.Bazley kept us in the game today until later in the 3rd and 4th quarter. The team is still figuring out the dynamics of the offense but Bazley needs to at least be the 2nd option.

link

These posts look absolutely ridiculous in hindsight. Nonetheless, the rebuild payed off for them and it's going to pay off for us. Losing and tanking can be absolutely miserable, especially when you get blown out big time. And we've been rebuilding now for more than one season, however at this point, as difficult as it might be for some fans, just have some patience and perspective. We don't have a very good team and even at full health if we experience 1-2 injuries, the team falls apart. We're almost half way through the season and getting closer to the trading deadline. Whether you're all for the tank or not, just remember that:

• we're getting closer to turning the corner (going from suckage to an up-and-coming team with a mid record, just like OKC in 2022-2023 when they finished 40-42)
• that the team has endured endless injuries to our most skilled and important players: rebuilding teams that are decimated by injuries can't really win many games at all, especially when the most talented players aren't playing, leading to huge blow outs
• we have really young and hungry guys who are going to be terrific rotation players and roles players for us, with Mogbo, Battle, Shead and of course Ja'Kobe
• the growth and development of Scottie, Gradey, Ochai, Shead, Battle and Ja'Kobe is really exciting: Scottie's handle looks much better and his mid-range game is coming along very nicely and is on his way to becoming a three-level scorer; Gradey as well looks like he could be a three-level scorer, his conditining is much better but of course he really needs to work on his defensive abilities; Ochai is rounding into a 3&D guy for us, although his defence and half-court offensive contributions need more consistency; Shead and Mogbo are clearly getting better but still need more refinement with the 905; and of course Battle is not only a decent shooter, but very scrappy and hustles hard and you can tell he wants to be better on the defensive end.
• Plus of course RJ. Whatever you may think of RJ, you can't deny that he's a much better player than he was on New York, distributing very effectively and improved efficiency.
• these guys work so hard and are very likeable

And of course Darko. The entire emphasis for this season has been placed on development and rebuilding (and not winning), specifically improving everyone's skillsets and seeing what and where their limitations are. For example this is why we're seeing RJ as a distributor and Scottie playing in more of a wing role at times, in the mid-range area and shooting many threes as opposed to operating in the low post. Darko has done not only a masterful job of developing the players, but also establishing a new culture and identity for the team, in which they work hard, really enjoy playing with one another and never give up. This is such an important step and development for the team, with Nurse abandoning the team in a final miserable season in which his odious and toxic behaviour is not missed.

I can understand why, and I think most people understand why fans can get frustrated. Losing absolutley sucks and obviously is the complete opposite of fun. But just have some patience and perspective. We're in a very similar position to OKC, we have a very competent front office with a clear history and record of drafting very well and we have a very young team that still needs to grow, develop and add substantial talent. Just remember though that there's only another half season or so of this emphasis on development and then next season the priority will switch to winning and competing; obviously not for a championship, but moreso for a playoff seed or even the play-in. And besides, things could be much worse: the Chicago Bulls are in mediocre treadmill hell because their front office continues to procrastinate and hold out hope for some miraculous winning streak; the Sacramento Kings made poor off season moves and appear to be treadmilling badly, while the Indiana Pacers may already have found themselves within the treadmill purgatory. We (finally) made the tough choices and are now in hot pursuit of a top five draft pick in a really exciting draft. The light is definitely there at the end of the tunnel.

Puuh a lot to unpack here and to put into the right perspective.

1. OKC had assetts they turned into Shai + A lot of Picks. Something that most rebuilding teams dont have.
2. There will always be critics no matter what, so Rehashing those post are kinda useless. Whats more important -> what did and say the organization. As far as i have seen, they pivoted quickly from Westbrook/George to Developing young players and draft them with the Assetts they gained from their Firesale. That stances hasnt changed from day 1 and today they yield benefits.
3. Its easy to look at scores and scoreboxes, but whats more important is what exactly did OKC do in those season.
- First Shai was injured for about half of thopse 2 seasons
- Their First season after Westbrook they actually were in the Playoffs. (CP3 time) The 2 bad ones came after that with injuries to Shai.
- OKC was bad really bad, but they played hard. Their team was so young and inexperienced, but it had heart. They have developed their automatism and culture in that time which they are benefiting from now.
4. The tanking question
OKC never tanked. Thats an assumption that is made without watching what actually happened. To make it short.
- As i mentioned their first season after the teardown, they were in the playoffs. The 2 bad ones were cause of Shais injury.
- OKC had so many assetts, they had no incentive to tank. Its highlighted by the fact, that on their roster only Chet is picked with their own pick (talking about rotation players). This team was already good without him. Their standings didnt matter in that regard, but that of the teams they had picks from.
5. People are not frustrated about the losses, but about the way we lose. Me personally i am upset, that Scottie hasnt made any progress in his decision making. If he wants to be a ballhandler, he needs to learn that other wise give the ball up and be a scorer when needed. In the same vain, unlike OKC we are not starting at 0, we are starting at year 3 of a rebuilding. We have 3 young assetts with all-star potential. We have 1 center in his prime. We have 1 young rotation player that will only get better over time (dick). OKC had shai and some picks. So to think we have 3 years to rebuild is nonsense. If we are not competitive next year, we will see trade requests from scottie, RJ and IQ sooner or later. This year should have been measuring stick, which didnt happen cause of injuries our season was derailed.

6. Yes it is easy to look at OKC and say - yes thats who we want to be. But we are at a completly different spot than they were. We didnt have 2 Stars to trade. Siakam and OG are simply a level beneath them. What we have is in Barnes a cornerstone in year 4 that already played 3 seasons with the raps, so we know what we can have with him. And with IQ and RJ we traded for young players not for Picks. We are at the spot, where we should develop chemistry, Automatism and overall increase of skilllevel over the course of the season. (this is what Yak meant going into the season). What happened is a lot of injuries, where our top 4 guys havent played together for reasonable amount of time. When that happens, thats when it counts. Its nice to draft a Flagg, but that at what cost? Team culture and developing players is far more important -> thats something we can learn from okc.

7. Mediocricy

It is a misconception that you have to bottom out to be competitive again. Its rather that you have to show some sign of competitiveness that you can pull off trades and free agents signing to become a contender. But that is depended on a good FO and some luck. The only Champion i can remember that became a champion without medicore seasons are the 2008 celtics. Every other Team had to go through their mediocre phase. (Cleveland 2nd stint with lebron would fit the bill too)

To make it short:

Your analysis is based on what you think, and not on what actually happened. The opinions of posters and sportscommentators are completly irrelevant. What is relevant what the organization themselves said and did.