RealGM

Still in shambles after no pizza party last game

They said go to back to your country if u don't like it here...so I'm considering it after the loss of pizza

Franz 7-10 days out still but Banchero is back in. At least we can see Paolo play.

Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

They did and they had help in the form of Bulls giving them a FRP that turned into Franz Wagner + for a impact-less Vucevic

We could have had similar trade if Masai had unloaded Siakam in summer 2022 after he made All-NBA and had 2 seasons under contract

Los_29 wrote:

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

We're on our 12th edition of tanking

Snappycoocoo wrote:

Los_29 wrote:

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

We're on our 12th edition of tanking

Not sure I follow.

Los_29 wrote:

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

Our first tank was bad and took long (and GM/coaching decisions made us give up on young guys early), made playoffs as 8th seed a few years with a low ceiling team, decided to tank again and got lucky in two years netting those guys - full out tanking is definitely hit or miss though.

Los_29 wrote:

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

lol no, they were a treadmill team most of that timeframe with Gordon, Fournier, Vucevic, Affalo, etc being a low seed playoff team, or competing for one year after year, something you people enjoy. They only started tanking the past few years.

720 wrote:

Los_29 wrote:

720 wrote:Magic, another team that tanked the proper way the past few years and now they have a lot of talent and will be legitimate contenders soon.

Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

lol no, they were a treadmill team most of that timeframe with Gordon, Fournier, Vucevic, Affalo, etc being a low seed playoff team, or competing for one year after year, something you people enjoy. They only started tanking the past few years.

This is factually not correct. They were in the lottery for most of that time. From 2012 to 2023, they had the fewest wins of any team in the NBA, and by a comfortable margin. They had plenty of picks in the top 10, they just didn't result in a winning team. There were two seasons in that time frame where they made a push for the playoffs. Year after year they were doing the opposite of competing.

Using Orlando as an example of a successful tank while completely ignoring the first failed attempt at building through the draft from 2012 to 2018 is obtuse.

deck wrote:

720 wrote:

Los_29 wrote:
Only took them 10 years in the lottery. Lot of years to spend tanking for a Paolo/Franz/Suggs core.

lol no, they were a treadmill team most of that timeframe with Gordon, Fournier, Vucevic, Affalo, etc being a low seed playoff team, or competing for one year after year, something you people enjoy. They only started tanking the past few years.

This is factually not correct. They were in the lottery for most of that time. From 2012 to 2023, they had the fewest wins of any team in the NBA, and by a comfortable margin. They had plenty of picks in the top 10, they just didn't result in a winning team. There were two seasons in that time frame where they made a push for the playoffs. Year after year they were doing the opposite of competing.

Using Orlando as an example of a successful tank while completely ignoring the first failed attempt at building through the draft from 2012 to 2018 is obtuse.

They were not tanking at all…from 2015-2020 they were trying to win and were a middling team either making the playoffs as a low seed or barely missing it. Over those years they loaded and unloaded middling talent to help make the playoffs. That’s not “tanking”. Tanking is when the organization makes a conscious effort to prioritize losing for a timeframe in order to attain BLUE CHIP lotto talent and then build off said talent. Building around Vucevic and Gordon is not that. That’s comparable with us trying to build around Siakam and Fred. Knowing they’re not leading a team anywhere.

720 wrote:

deck wrote:

720 wrote:lol no, they were a treadmill team most of that timeframe with Gordon, Fournier, Vucevic, Affalo, etc being a low seed playoff team, or competing for one year after year, something you people enjoy. They only started tanking the past few years.

This is factually not correct. They were in the lottery for most of that time. From 2012 to 2023, they had the fewest wins of any team in the NBA, and by a comfortable margin. They had plenty of picks in the top 10, they just didn't result in a winning team. There were two seasons in that time frame where they made a push for the playoffs. Year after year they were doing the opposite of competing.

Using Orlando as an example of a successful tank while completely ignoring the first failed attempt at building through the draft from 2012 to 2018 is obtuse.

They were not tanking at all…from 2015-2020 they were trying to win and were a middling team either making the playoffs as a low seed or barely missing it. Over those years they loaded and unloaded middling talent to help make the playoffs. That’s not “tanking”. Tanking is when the organization makes a conscious effort to prioritize losing for a timeframe in order to attain BLUE CHIP lotto talent and then build off said talent. Building around Vucevic and Gordon is not that. That’s comparable with us trying to build around Siakam and Fred. Knowing they’re not leading a team anywhere.

Were they trying to win when they traded ibaka to us for coin toss Ross and a first round pick? Stop it!

NinjaBro wrote:

720 wrote:

deck wrote:
This is factually not correct. They were in the lottery for most of that time. From 2012 to 2023, they had the fewest wins of any team in the NBA, and by a comfortable margin. They had plenty of picks in the top 10, they just didn't result in a winning team. There were two seasons in that time frame where they made a push for the playoffs. Year after year they were doing the opposite of competing.

Using Orlando as an example of a successful tank while completely ignoring the first failed attempt at building through the draft from 2012 to 2018 is obtuse.

They were not tanking at all…from 2015-2020 they were trying to win and were a middling team either making the playoffs as a low seed or barely missing it. Over those years they loaded and unloaded middling talent to help make the playoffs. That’s not “tanking”. Tanking is when the organization makes a conscious effort to prioritize losing for a timeframe in order to attain BLUE CHIP lotto talent and then build off said talent. Building around Vucevic and Gordon is not that. That’s comparable with us trying to build around Siakam and Fred. Knowing they’re not leading a team anywhere.

Were they trying to win when they traded ibaka to us for coin toss Ross and a first round pick? Stop it!

The very fact that they traded for Ibaka in the first place and thought he could be a first option (which is how they were using him) highlights how mediocre minded they were. lol

720 wrote:

deck wrote:

720 wrote:lol no, they were a treadmill team most of that timeframe with Gordon, Fournier, Vucevic, Affalo, etc being a low seed playoff team, or competing for one year after year, something you people enjoy. They only started tanking the past few years.

This is factually not correct. They were in the lottery for most of that time. From 2012 to 2023, they had the fewest wins of any team in the NBA, and by a comfortable margin. They had plenty of picks in the top 10, they just didn't result in a winning team. There were two seasons in that time frame where they made a push for the playoffs. Year after year they were doing the opposite of competing.

Using Orlando as an example of a successful tank while completely ignoring the first failed attempt at building through the draft from 2012 to 2018 is obtuse.

They were not tanking at all…from 2015-2020 they were trying to win and were a middling team either making the playoffs as a low seed or barely missing it. Over those years they loaded and unloaded middling talent to help make the playoffs. That’s not “tanking”. Tanking is when the organization makes a conscious effort to prioritize losing for a timeframe in order to attain BLUE CHIP lotto talent and then build off said talent. Building around Vucevic and Gordon is not that. That’s comparable with us trying to build around Siakam and Fred. Knowing they’re not leading a team anywhere.

Over the past 12 years, they lost more games than any other team by a significant margin. They drafted in the lottery. They drafted blue chip players. It just didn't work. There are 2 years in the past 12 where they were pushing for the playoffs, the other 10 years they are in the top 4 for worst record every single year.

Gordon is a #4 overall pick. Oladipo #2 overall. They just didn't pan out as can often happen.

Consider this; you are praising them for the recent years of tanking. In 2021 and 2022 when they had the most draft success, they lost 21 and 22 games respectively. In 2013 and 2014 when they started their first rebuild in the post Howard era, they lost 20 and 23 games respectively. So for all you posturing about deliberately loosing, they lost a grand total of 1 extra game in order to get Banchero and Wagner. And ironically, they got Wagner as a result of the Vucevic trade with Chicago. They almost certainly don't get that value back if they didn't have two seasons of being in the playoffs.

Orlando has built a nice team, and they've done that through good drafting since 2020. I certainly wouldn't deny that. But to try to re-frame the history of the past 12 years to make a point about tanking vs. not tanking is basic in my opinion. They tanked / rebuilt through the draft once in the 2012 to 2015 time-frame, and it didn't work. They rebuilt again in 2021 and are having much better success this time.

Gee, I remember why we created a dedicated tanking thread.

Take it there please.

deck wrote:

720 wrote:

deck wrote:
This is factually not correct. They were in the lottery for most of that time. From 2012 to 2023, they had the fewest wins of any team in the NBA, and by a comfortable margin. They had plenty of picks in the top 10, they just didn't result in a winning team. There were two seasons in that time frame where they made a push for the playoffs. Year after year they were doing the opposite of competing.

Using Orlando as an example of a successful tank while completely ignoring the first failed attempt at building through the draft from 2012 to 2018 is obtuse.

They were not tanking at all…from 2015-2020 they were trying to win and were a middling team either making the playoffs as a low seed or barely missing it. Over those years they loaded and unloaded middling talent to help make the playoffs. That’s not “tanking”. Tanking is when the organization makes a conscious effort to prioritize losing for a timeframe in order to attain BLUE CHIP lotto talent and then build off said talent. Building around Vucevic and Gordon is not that. That’s comparable with us trying to build around Siakam and Fred. Knowing they’re not leading a team anywhere.

Over the past 12 years, they lost more games than any other team by a significant margin. They drafted in the lottery. They drafted blue chip players. It just didn't work. There are 2 years in the past 12 where they were pushing for the playoffs, the other 10 years they are in the top 4 for worst record every single year.

Gordon is a #4 overall pick. Oladipo #2 overall. They just didn't pan out as can often happen.

Consider this; you are praising them for the recent years of tanking. In 2021 and 2022 when they had the most draft success, they lost 21 and 22 games respectively. In 2013 and 2014 when they started their first rebuild in the post Howard era, they lost 20 and 23 games respectively. So for all you posturing about deliberately loosing, they lost a grand total of 1 extra game in order to get Banchero and Wagner. And ironically, they got Wagner as a result of the Vucevic trade with Chicago. They almost certainly don't get that value back if they didn't have two seasons of being in the playoffs.

Orlando has built a nice team, and they've done that through good drafting since 2020. I certainly wouldn't deny that. But to try to re-frame the history of the past 12 years to make a point about tanking vs. not tanking is basic in my opinion. They tanked / rebuilt through the draft once in the 2012 to 2015 time-frame, and it didn't work. They rebuilt again in 2021 and are having much better success this time.

They never had a blue chip prospect. Blue chip means can’t miss prospects. Gordon was not that, Oldapio was a good/decent pick but they traded him for Ibaka. They spent 5-6 years building around Vucevic, Gordon, and Fournier. That is not what tanking teams do. That’s what treadmill teams do. Tanking teams make sure they get that top tier talent first then surrounds them with similarly talented players and builds from there.

720 wrote:

deck wrote:

720 wrote:They were not tanking at all…from 2015-2020 they were trying to win and were a middling team either making the playoffs as a low seed or barely missing it. Over those years they loaded and unloaded middling talent to help make the playoffs. That’s not “tanking”. Tanking is when the organization makes a conscious effort to prioritize losing for a timeframe in order to attain BLUE CHIP lotto talent and then build off said talent. Building around Vucevic and Gordon is not that. That’s comparable with us trying to build around Siakam and Fred. Knowing they’re not leading a team anywhere.

Over the past 12 years, they lost more games than any other team by a significant margin. They drafted in the lottery. They drafted blue chip players. It just didn't work. There are 2 years in the past 12 where they were pushing for the playoffs, the other 10 years they are in the top 4 for worst record every single year.

Gordon is a #4 overall pick. Oladipo #2 overall. They just didn't pan out as can often happen.

Consider this; you are praising them for the recent years of tanking. In 2021 and 2022 when they had the most draft success, they lost 21 and 22 games respectively. In 2013 and 2014 when they started their first rebuild in the post Howard era, they lost 20 and 23 games respectively. So for all you posturing about deliberately loosing, they lost a grand total of 1 extra game in order to get Banchero and Wagner. And ironically, they got Wagner as a result of the Vucevic trade with Chicago. They almost certainly don't get that value back if they didn't have two seasons of being in the playoffs.

Orlando has built a nice team, and they've done that through good drafting since 2020. I certainly wouldn't deny that. But to try to re-frame the history of the past 12 years to make a point about tanking vs. not tanking is basic in my opinion. They tanked / rebuilt through the draft once in the 2012 to 2015 time-frame, and it didn't work. They rebuilt again in 2021 and are having much better success this time.

They never had a blue chip prospect. Blue chip means can’t miss prospects. Gordon was not that, Oldapio was a good/decent pick but they traded him for Ibaka. They spent 5-6 years building around Vucevic, Gordon, and Fournier. That is not what tanking teams do. That’s what treadmill teams do. Tanking teams make sure they get that top tier talent first then surrounds them with similarly talented players and builds from there.

You created the latest tanking thread. Take this conversation there.

Site loading super slowly for anyone else?

Duffman100 wrote:Site loading super slowly for anyone else?

Will Orlando play against the Magic? We signed him right in time for the next game!

Orlando Robinson, of course!