RealGM

Lots of conversations going on with ratings of nba at a 20 year low. With the Luka trade finalized theres lots of questions of why this happened and where is the NBA going with their product.

?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg

As per:

I've listened to 8000 NBA centered podcasts this year and have watched maybe 2 games this season. The product is bad.

I've watched ~80-100 games/year for probably like 25 years. Yes, the Raptors being terrible hurts but that didn't stop me before.

I've spoken with other diehards and its the same story. They just can't bring themselves to watch NBA games anymore. I expect a substantial contraction in the coming years. The ratings are a disaster and the teams valuation were a bubble that's going to burst.

these billionaires are going to lose a lot of money soon (on paper) and its going to get messy. The networks are going to turn on the NBA. Salaries are going to have to come down for the players and they won't know how to deal with it.

I predict Silver gets replaced within 12 months.

Luka trade was a panic move. They lifted the curtain too much and it was sloppy.

It just seems like a lot of players have been/are injured this season. It's one thing to watch stars chucking threes for an entire game, but at least you get to see them. But half the time it seems like players are forced to sit out due to injuries, or load management.

WWSRD wrote:As per:

I've listened to 8000 NBA centered podcasts this year and have watched maybe 2 games this season. The product is bad.

I've watched ~80-100 games/year for probably like 25 years. Yes, the Raptors being terrible hurts but that didn't stop me before.

I've spoken with other diehards and its the same story. They just can't bring themselves to watch NBA games anymore. I expect a substantial contraction in the coming years. The ratings are a disaster and the teams valuation were a bubble that's going to burst.

these billionaires are going to lose a lot of money soon (on paper) and its going to get messy. The networks are going to turn on the NBA. Salaries are going to have to come down for the players and they won't know how to deal with it.

I predict Silver gets replaced within 12 months.

Luka trade was a panic move. They lifted the curtain too much and it was sloppy.

Same thing. I used to watch 10-12 games a week (non Raptors). The other day I tuned into a Grizzlies / Mavericks game and watched 15 consecutive 3 pointers put up. I turned the game off.

I'm probably just an old man yelling at a cloud, but enough of that impacts ratings.

Coco Costanza wrote:It just seems like a lot of players have been/are injured this season. It's one thing to watch stars chucking threes for an entire game, but at least you get to see them. But half the time it seems like players are forced to sit out due to injuries, or load management.

On top of that those same players ie jimmy butler are acting like complete fools. The nba lost their leverage it seems and need to lay the hammer on all this nonsense.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/279060/Warriors-Exploring-Trade-For-Kevin-Durant

Lol...If KD and/or LBJ go to the Warriors...

NBA is a literal clown show right now in between Jimmy saga, Beal NTC, Zion eating his way out the league, Doncic trade, SAC doing Sac things, and now this rumour? So much drama. What ever happened to shutting up and dribbling?

Also, NBA is reinforcing the wealth disparity and it's off-putting.

As you guys have said, Jimmy Butler being THIS petulant to maximize his contract return. Like, you're already making insane money. Even if you blow out your knee playing, you still have generational fortunes in the bank, I would hope.

A max 10 years ago was what? 20 million. Now it's 60 million? Meanwhile everyone else's income has remained flat. It's too much.

Seeing a mediocre 'good' player get 40-50million just doesn't feel right. I get they're worth it given the numbers but its unlikeable.

The NBA is trash but I dont think they understand how many billions are needed to start a new league. The players make so much money already in the NBA, how are you going to get them to jump ship? You will need a hundred players, probably more and you will have to pay them significantly more each to leave the NBA. The product would be terrible, I guess the NBA product would get even worse. Its not happening. People have tried this before with different sports and the new leagues always fail. Golf works I guess? (who watches golf) as its an individual sport so you just need your lebron or whatever.

WuTang_OG wrote:Lots of conversations going on with ratings of nba at a 20 year low. With the Luka trade finalized theres lots of questions of why this happened and where is the NBA going with their product.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=0YpMScWXY2zRUqR8fH-usg

I wonder if getting Luka to LA is in part to 'dim' LeBron's spotlight in light of Rich Paul looking into this other league. LeBron can say he's not involved but I doubt Rich Paul does anything without consulting him. Not believable.

LeBron may be planning a new league post retirement and that might have led Luka to LA and get LeBron out of there or just to dampen him in some way.

Tennis is the only sport worth watching anymore. It still has it's BS (top players can literally get away with roiding), but at least you don't have to deal with owners and their BS because it's an individual sport. And with the sport shifting to 100% robo umps at most tournaments, blatant rigging is all but eradicated (even before that, it was very difficult for umps to fix matches).

artsncrafts wrote:The NBA is trash but I dont think they understand how many billions are needed to start a new league. The players make so much money already in the NBA, how are you going to get them to jump ship? You will need a hundred players, probably more and you will have to pay them significantly more each to leave the NBA. The product would be terrible, I guess the NBA product would get even worse. Its not happening. People have tried this before with different sports and the new leagues always fail. Golf works I guess? (who watches golf) as its an individual sport so you just need your lebron or whatever.

If the Saudi's want to get involved, it could happen.

Chamath's reasons for selling makes sense from the perspective that as time goes on, media revenues exceed arena revenues. That makes competition more viable.

ItsDanger wrote:Chamath's reasons for selling makes sense from the perspective that as time goes on, media revenues exceed arena revenues. That makes competition more viable.

However, fandom runs deep.

It would be tough for me to give a **** about a random Saudi league, just like no one cares about LIV vs the PGA.

I think a lot of this is a little exaggerated. Most fans don't care about the increase in 3 pointers - the chronically online (who complain about everything, including all of us here) are bitching, and many of us are just "getting old" which is why the amount we watch has decreased as well.

Realistically I think the NBA has things to do the improve the product. Much like how the MLB made some moves to improve the quality of the game, I think the NBA does too. To many 3's is a very common complaint, and there is something ascetically pleasing about the mid range game and post game that has been lost. If the NBA can find a way to incentivize the different styles it would be for the best. A cap on 3's (either made or missed) or have it be that you can't shoot a 3 until you've hit a non-3 or something which resets once you miss a 3.

It would provide an interesting wrinkle to the game, and it wouldn't be the first professional league to have rules that lower leagues do not use.

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories and I don't think this is something Silver had his hands in, but I also absolutely buy the angle of what the Adelsons are doing, anyone with eyes has seen what happened with the Oakland A's. The problem is, that it is their asset and they can intentionally deprecate it if they want to, even if the end result is a relocation.

Silver has no incentive to step in and do anything as Luka to the Lakers is a literal wet dream to him, and a hope to save the floundering ratings. But this as expected, just means the NBA will double down on the same dumb ideas they have been putting forth and not learning from the NFL.

The NFL does not have "small market" teams, because they market all their teams. The NBA will continue doubling down on a couple franchises and we will get back to the dynasty era yet again, and anyone but those fans will cease to watch. The product has become exceptionally boring, and whether or not all the believed conspiracy theories like refs fixing games, NBA having a hand in players going to specific teams, or anything else are true, it doesn't matter.

If fans don't think their team has a chance to actually win, they won't watch. The question is, will the other owners see this as a viable way to continue growing their investment, or will this cause them to lose enough money to make a stink.

Silver has done nothing beneficial for the league outside being the commish when massive TV deals have been signed, but that's not something he was some savant at getting done, he's replaceable.

All I know is that I don't watch nearly as many games as I used to, and it's for a plethora of reasons that result in a worse product. The question is, do they think the casuals they get from things like Luka to LA will be enough to counter the exodus of people who just see this as another thing to throw on the "Not worth watching anymore" pile.

YogurtProducer wrote:I think a lot of this is a little exaggerated. Most fans don't care about the increase in 3 pointers - the chronically online (who complain about everything, including all of us here) are bitching, and many of us are just "getting old" which is why the amount we watch has decreased as well.

Realistically I think the NBA has things to do the improve the product. Much like how the MLB made some moves to improve the quality of the game, I think the NBA does too. To many 3's is a very common complaint, and there is something ascetically pleasing about the mid range game and post game that has been lost. If the NBA can find a way to incentivize the different styles it would be for the best. A cap on 3's (either made or missed) or have it be that you can't shoot a 3 until you've hit a non-3 or something which resets once you miss a 3.

It would provide an interesting wrinkle to the game, and it wouldn't be the first professional league to have rules that lower leagues do not use.

Something is going on. Ratings are down 40%! in 10 years? 28% this year.

That's a collapse. There's no sugarcoating it. Sporting events are the only live programming anymore given streaming and the NBA is STILL declining rapidly.

The NBA isn't invincible, they mismanaged their business and it's catching up with them.
I wonder how locked in the networks are. Can they bail on their broadcast deals? What happens when the taps run dry and you have a 150$million payroll?

WWSRD wrote:As per:

I've listened to 8000 NBA centered podcasts this year and have watched maybe 2 games this season. The product is bad.

I've watched ~80-100 games/year for probably like 25 years. Yes, the Raptors being terrible hurts but that didn't stop me before.

I've spoken with other diehards and its the same story. They just can't bring themselves to watch NBA games anymore. I expect a substantial contraction in the coming years. The ratings are a disaster and the teams valuation were a bubble that's going to burst.

these billionaires are going to lose a lot of money soon (on paper) and its going to get messy. The networks are going to turn on the NBA. Salaries are going to have to come down for the players and they won't know how to deal with it.

I predict Silver gets replaced within 12 months.

Luka trade was a panic move. They lifted the curtain too much and it was sloppy.

I don't really believe you've listened to 8000 podcasts in the month of January of 2025. Did you mean 2024? Even then, you would have to listen to, on average, 22 podcast episodes a day to actually listen to the 8000 you claim. I'll assume this is gross hyperbole on your part because even if every episode is only an hour long you'd have 2 hours left in the day to sleep.

Even with exaggeration, if your entire life is just listening to NBA podcasts and not actually watching games I think you've got it very backwards, I don't even know why you'd bother wasting so much time on these podcasts when you don't even like the NBA. Sounds like you're one of those people who think the NBA was amazing back in the 2000s when Detroit was holding teams to 50 points in a game, players walked the ball up every possession to run clear the side ISOs, and people were questioning the validity of playoff games where the refs seemed to be cooking the books to make sure the Lakers won everything. The ratings were terrible, owners were selling their franchises for less than they paid for them and the NBA had to own New Orleans for a while because no one wanted to buy it.

Nothing I've seen recently is remotely close to as bad as this league was back then, yes there are problems (gambling, too many ads, too many 3s) but at least there is a strong talent base, teams are making money, virtually every team has a star level player, and there are no dynasty teams winning every single year like we've seen in basically every other era of the game.

ciueli wrote:

WWSRD wrote:As per:

I've listened to 8000 NBA centered podcasts this year and have watched maybe 2 games this season. The product is bad.

I've watched ~80-100 games/year for probably like 25 years. Yes, the Raptors being terrible hurts but that didn't stop me before.

I've spoken with other diehards and its the same story. They just can't bring themselves to watch NBA games anymore. I expect a substantial contraction in the coming years. The ratings are a disaster and the teams valuation were a bubble that's going to burst.

these billionaires are going to lose a lot of money soon (on paper) and its going to get messy. The networks are going to turn on the NBA. Salaries are going to have to come down for the players and they won't know how to deal with it.

I predict Silver gets replaced within 12 months.

Luka trade was a panic move. They lifted the curtain too much and it was sloppy.

I don't really believe you've listened to 8000 podcasts in the month of January of 2025. Did you mean 2024? Even then, you would have to listen to, on average, 22 podcast episodes a day to actually listen to the 8000 you claim. I'll assume this is gross hyperbole on your part because even if every episode is only an hour long you'd have 2 hours left in the day to sleep.

Even with exaggeration, if your entire life is just listening to NBA podcasts and not actually watching games I think you've got it very backwards, I don't even know why you'd bother wasting so much time on these podcasts when you don't even like the NBA. Sounds like you're one of those people who think the NBA was amazing back in the 2000s when Detroit was holding teams to 50 points in a game, players walked the ball up every possession to run clear the side ISOs, and people were questioning the validity of playoff games where the refs seemed to be cooking the books to make sure the Lakers won everything. The ratings were terrible, owners were selling their franchises for less than they paid for them and the NBA had to own New Orleans for a while because no one wanted to buy it.

Nothing I've seen recently is remotely close to as bad as this league was back then, yes there are problems (gambling, too many ads, too many 3s) but at least there is a strong talent base, teams are making money, virtually every team has a star level player, and there are no dynasty teams winning every single year like we've seen in basically every other era of the game.

You fact checking me on the podcast number, which is clearly hyperbole, is hilarious.

Scase wrote:I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories and I don't think this is something Silver had his hands in, but I also absolutely buy the angle of what the Adelsons are doing, anyone with eyes has seen what happened with the Oakland A's. The problem is, that it is their asset and they can intentionally deprecate it if they want to, even if the end result is a relocation.

Silver has no incentive to step in and do anything as Luka to the Lakers is a literal wet dream to him, and a hope to save the floundering ratings. But this as expected, just means the NBA will double down on the same dumb ideas they have been putting forth and not learning from the NFL.

The NFL does not have "small market" teams, because they market all their teams. The NBA will continue doubling down on a couple franchises and we will get back to the dynasty era yet again, and anyone but those fans will cease to watch. The product has become exceptionally boring, and whether or not all the believed conspiracy theories like refs fixing games, NBA having a hand in players going to specific teams, or anything else are true, it doesn't matter.

If fans don't think their team has a chance to actually win, they won't watch. The question is, will the other owners see this as a viable way to continue growing their investment, or will this cause them to lose enough money to make a stink.

Silver has done nothing beneficial for the league outside being the commish when massive TV deals have been signed, but that's not something he was some savant at getting done, he's replaceable.

All I know is that I don't watch nearly as many games as I used to, and it's for a plethora of reasons that result in a worse product. The question is, do they think the casuals they get from things like Luka to LA will be enough to counter the exodus of people who just see this as another thing to throw on the "Not worth watching anymore" pile.

The NFL blatantly rigs its games as well, but they do it in service of players, not specific markets. Their golden goose right now is mother **** Kansas City. If the NFL was operated like the NBA, the Chiefs would be getting no favourable calls, and the team would be under constant media pressure to trade Mahomes to a bigger market.

WWSRD wrote:

ciueli wrote:

WWSRD wrote:As per:

I've listened to 8000 NBA centered podcasts this year and have watched maybe 2 games this season. The product is bad.

I've watched ~80-100 games/year for probably like 25 years. Yes, the Raptors being terrible hurts but that didn't stop me before.

I've spoken with other diehards and its the same story. They just can't bring themselves to watch NBA games anymore. I expect a substantial contraction in the coming years. The ratings are a disaster and the teams valuation were a bubble that's going to burst.

these billionaires are going to lose a lot of money soon (on paper) and its going to get messy. The networks are going to turn on the NBA. Salaries are going to have to come down for the players and they won't know how to deal with it.

I predict Silver gets replaced within 12 months.

Luka trade was a panic move. They lifted the curtain too much and it was sloppy.

I don't really believe you've listened to 8000 podcasts in the month of January of 2025. Did you mean 2024? Even then, you would have to listen to, on average, 22 podcast episodes a day to actually listen to the 8000 you claim. I'll assume this is gross hyperbole on your part because even if every episode is only an hour long you'd have 2 hours left in the day to sleep.

Even with exaggeration, if your entire life is just listening to NBA podcasts and not actually watching games I think you've got it very backwards, I don't even know why you'd bother wasting so much time on these podcasts when you don't even like the NBA. Sounds like you're one of those people who think the NBA was amazing back in the 2000s when Detroit was holding teams to 50 points in a game, players walked the ball up every possession to run clear the side ISOs, and people were questioning the validity of playoff games where the refs seemed to be cooking the books to make sure the Lakers won everything. The ratings were terrible, owners were selling their franchises for less than they paid for them and the NBA had to own New Orleans for a while because no one wanted to buy it.

Nothing I've seen recently is remotely close to as bad as this league was back then, yes there are problems (gambling, too many ads, too many 3s) but at least there is a strong talent base, teams are making money, virtually every team has a star level player, and there are no dynasty teams winning every single year like we've seen in basically every other era of the game.

You fact checking me on the podcast number, which is clearly hyperbole, is hilarious.

What's hilarious to me is you completely ignoring how utter trash and close to financial ruin the NBA was for a whole decade in the 2000s and yet you run around here like Chicken Little screaming your head off about how Silver is going to get fired in months and the players' salaries will be cut. The exact opposite is happening, players are making more money than ever and the only reason their salaries aren't increasing even faster is the NBA has capped increases to phase in over time due to the massive amount of new money they're going to get from Amazon and the networks.