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A lot of former Raptor players and coaches talk about the Raptors years from 2004-2018. Good to see Bryan Colangelo again and his thought process during his years in Toronto

@ 26:20 - Bryan Colangelo calling Tim Leiweke "that ceo" lol they did not get along

"We have knee jerked way too often in the past. We've made short term decisions, not long term decisions." - Tim Leiweke, Dec 2013

I just started watching Part 3 right now. The revisionist history from folks like Sam Mitchell is kinda wild, although also expected from a Sportsnet documentary. Also, did they just skip over the Washington series sweep?

Edit: I hadn't watched far enough yet, lol.

Didn't really like this documentary.

I think they should have spent way more time on Lowry and Demar's on the court impact instead of just focusing on their "bromance." Wish they would have spent more time discussing the 50+ win seasons, deep playoff runs, Lowry's grit, hustle, taking charges, being a leader and Demar's incredible work-ethic and how that galvanized the team. Wish they would have spent more time talking about Masai's impressive draft selections deep in the draft and creating that bench depth mob.

Why not actually go through the details? When we got swept by Washington and Lowry came back lean and in great shape, playing his best season, being top 10 in the league in every advanced stat, and us dominating. Go in way more depth about the 2016 run to the ECF, better than every team in Raptors history. Talk about our incredible 2018 season, winning 59 games, the emergence of Powell, Fred, Siakam, OG etc. but ultimately collapsing in the 2nd round.

I thought it just glossed over most of our success, really undervalued the leadership/work-ethic/impact of the Lowry-Toronto dup and then went to "Lebronto" and that was it.

Could have been so much better done.

I didn't realize how downplayed the Demar tweet was to management/media at the time. Almost scoffing.

That tweet meant alot to me after CB left, regardless if DD was just coming off his rookie season.

ItsDanger wrote:"We have knee jerked way too often in the past. We've made short term decisions, not long term decisions." - Tim Leiweke, Dec 2013

We traded Rudy Gay away Dec 9 2013 (after having already previously traded Bargnani). I guess that was a long term decision to tank.
But then we won 48 games, and so we had a "wait and see year" in 2014-15 where the major move was trading Vasquez for Powell and the pick that eventually became OG. That was the "no knee jerk".

On July 9 2015, we signed Demarre, signalling the end of any sort of possible rebuild and won 56 games.

So I guess his "long term decisions" really lasted like...a year and a half. We then entered 3 years of "treadmill" before the chip. Interesting how philosophies can change on a dime.

ontnut wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:"We have knee jerked way too often in the past. We've made short term decisions, not long term decisions." - Tim Leiweke, Dec 2013

We traded Rudy Gay away Dec 9 2013 (after having already previously traded Bargnani). I guess that was a long term decision to tank.
But then we won 48 games, and so we had a "wait and see year" in 2014-15 where the major move was trading Vasquez for Powell and the pick that eventually became OG. That was the "no knee jerk".

On July 9 2015, we signed Demarre, signalling the end of any sort of possible rebuild and won 56 games.

So I guess his "long term decisions" really lasted like...a year and a half. We then entered 3 years of "treadmill" before the chip. Interesting how philosophies can change on a dime.

Or the philosophy is the same and people aren't picking up on it.

ontnut wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:"We have knee jerked way too often in the past. We've made short term decisions, not long term decisions." - Tim Leiweke, Dec 2013

We traded Rudy Gay away Dec 9 2013 (after having already previously traded Bargnani). I guess that was a long term decision to tank.
But then we won 48 games, and so we had a "wait and see year" in 2014-15 where the major move was trading Vasquez for Powell and the pick that eventually became OG. That was the "no knee jerk".

On July 9 2015, we signed Demarre, signalling the end of any sort of possible rebuild and won 56 games.

So I guess his "long term decisions" really lasted like...a year and a half. We then entered 3 years of "treadmill" before the chip. Interesting how philosophies can change on a dime.

Lol weird way to look at things:

You make it seem like 2016-2018 was a waste.

The fact is that in 2016 we won a franchise record 56 games and reached the conference finals against a Cavaliers super team with Lebron in his prime that ended up beating the other super team Warriors.

Our team won 51 games and Lowry got hurt in game 1 against the Cavs.

2018 was disappointing, but it was our most dominant season ever, winning 59 games.

During this period we did some amazing things and that is we built a contending 50+ win team also managed to snag some amazing pieces late in the draft or outside of the draft like Delon, Powell, Fred, Siakam, and OG...who all should have been top 5-10 picks. By 2018 we had the deepest team in the entire league led by two legitimate all-star players.

If this is "treadmill" I have no idea what is not a "treadmill" anymore...is it championship or bust?

TheGeneral99 wrote:

ontnut wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:"We have knee jerked way too often in the past. We've made short term decisions, not long term decisions." - Tim Leiweke, Dec 2013

We traded Rudy Gay away Dec 9 2013 (after having already previously traded Bargnani). I guess that was a long term decision to tank.
But then we won 48 games, and so we had a "wait and see year" in 2014-15 where the major move was trading Vasquez for Powell and the pick that eventually became OG. That was the "no knee jerk".

On July 9 2015, we signed Demarre, signalling the end of any sort of possible rebuild and won 56 games.

So I guess his "long term decisions" really lasted like...a year and a half. We then entered 3 years of "treadmill" before the chip. Interesting how philosophies can change on a dime.

Lol weird way to look at things:

You make it seem like 2016-2018 was a waste.

The fact is that in 2016 we won a franchise record 56 games and reached the conference finals against a Cavaliers super team with Lebron in his prime that ended up beating the other super team Warriors.

Our team won 51 games and Lowry got hurt in game 1 against the Cavs.

2018 was disappointing, but it was our most dominant season ever, winning 59 games.

During this period we did some amazing things and that is we built a contending 50+ win team also managed to snag some amazing pieces late in the draft or outside of the draft like Delon, Powell, Fred, Siakam, and OG...who all should have been top 5-10 picks. By 2018 we had the deepest team in the entire league led by two legitimate all-star players.

If this is "treadmill" I have no idea what is not a "treadmill" anymore...is it championship or bust?

Yeah - it was a great team that just didn't have playoff performers. You can maybe argue that we waited 1 year too long to pivot, but if we pivot a year early we don't get Kawhi and we don't win a chip. But then - there are still many on this board that whine about everything - even winning.

TheGeneral99 wrote:

ontnut wrote:

ItsDanger wrote:"We have knee jerked way too often in the past. We've made short term decisions, not long term decisions." - Tim Leiweke, Dec 2013

We traded Rudy Gay away Dec 9 2013 (after having already previously traded Bargnani). I guess that was a long term decision to tank.
But then we won 48 games, and so we had a "wait and see year" in 2014-15 where the major move was trading Vasquez for Powell and the pick that eventually became OG. That was the "no knee jerk".

On July 9 2015, we signed Demarre, signalling the end of any sort of possible rebuild and won 56 games.

So I guess his "long term decisions" really lasted like...a year and a half. We then entered 3 years of "treadmill" before the chip. Interesting how philosophies can change on a dime.

Lol weird way to look at things:

You make it seem like 2016-2018 was a waste.

The fact is that in 2016 we won a franchise record 56 games and reached the conference finals against a Cavaliers super team with Lebron in his prime that ended up beating the other super team Warriors.

Our team won 51 games and Lowry got hurt in game 1 against the Cavs.

2018 was disappointing, but it was our most dominant season ever, winning 59 games.

During this period we did some amazing things and that is we built a contending 50+ win team also managed to snag some amazing pieces late in the draft or outside of the draft like Delon, Powell, Fred, Siakam, and OG...who all should have been top 5-10 picks. By 2018 we had the deepest team in the entire league led by two legitimate all-star players.

If this is "treadmill" I have no idea what is not a "treadmill" anymore...is it championship or bust?

Huh? That's what you got out of my post? lol.
I'm pro-our current direction btw, and was pro-lowry/derozan at the time.

I was simply making a note that the the Lewieke quote about short term vs long term decisions (ie tankers not wanting us to trade 1sts for Ingram/Poeltl etc.), wasn't exactly what we ended up doing. Circumstances changed rapidly and we went from potentially trading away our core (and looking "long term"), to adding to the core, in 1.5 years.

We traded away much of our core a year ago and are already pivoting to being competitive. It's what the Raps have always done. Which is why it's kinda dumb for people to be moaning and groaning about not tanking more, or that this team is headed for treadmill territory. We're not the type of franchise that really has done that historically. Since Masai has been here, we've rolled with our core guys, developed, traded shrewdly, and drafted well around the edges. Why anyone would think that would change now...

BC blaming Tim Leiweke for losing job to Masai.