Elephant in the room but isn't Barnes suppose to be getting better?

[DKB333]

I am worred. He has not taken a step, little own a leap and we are nearing the end of year four. He fluctuates between good seasons and bad seasons. Is it time to just admit he is a great player but not going to ever be the guy? A rich mans Odom/Iguodala.

[YogurtProducer]

He is miscast right now - his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option on offense like he was when Nurse was still here.

Next year with Brandon Ingram and Quickley healthy and playing he will slot back more naturally into his correct role.

Turns out, Nurse and co were right about him. Hell of a player, just not in a flashy or typical way.

[HangTime]

I think y'all are missing the big picture.

If we were relatively healthy, we would have saw it this season.

Be patient, You'll see next season.
Or sooner, if we make this seasons playoffs.

[PushDaRock]

He is miscast right now - his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option on offense like he was when Nurse was still here.

Next year with Brandon Ingram and Quickley healthy and playing he will slot back more naturally into his correct role.

Turns out, Nurse and co were right about him. Hell of a player, just not in a flashy or typical way.

The funny thing is Nurse actually tried to have him play PG too in year 2 and it was a disaster for the entire team before he was forced to put Fred back on the ball. We let that experiment go on way too long.

The question is can you even build a contender with him taking up a Max slot as a 4th option? I would say no unless he becomes a prime Gobert/Draymond impact level defender.

[YogurtProducer]

He is miscast right now - his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option on offense like he was when Nurse was still here.

Next year with Brandon Ingram and Quickley healthy and playing he will slot back more naturally into his correct role.

Turns out, Nurse and co were right about him. Hell of a player, just not in a flashy or typical way.

The funny thing is Nurse actually tried to have him play PG too in year 2 and it was a disaster for the entire team before he was forced to put Fred back on the ball. We let that experiment go on way too long.

The question is can you even build a contender with him taking up a Max slot as a 4th option? I would say no unless he becomes a prime Gobert/Draymond impact level defender.

The rookie max is different than a max slot. He is not even top 30 paid in the league, but I beleive defensively he can get there to be a top 30 impact player. He borderline is there already.

There are few guys that can match his combo of size / playmaking / defence

[Raptorfan2012]

Barnes never had the talent to be an elite scorer; he is more of a utility - does everything well kind of guy. At best he is a 2-way player that is maybe your 3rd option. This year they are trying to develop him to do more on offence, but if this team is serious next season, Barnes role will be more of a playmaking forward whose job is to feed Ingram and IQ while playing good defense.

[XTC]

Remember when FVV and Thad was getting at Barnes to get him to work harder, and we all turned on them?

We owe Thad and especially FVV an apology. I lowkey miss his pecking order... make the young fellas hungry and take the ball/your position. Watching him mentor the young players in Houston, and watching their coaching staff/vets hold their young guys accountable is making me sad/jealous.

[DKB333]

He is a dick teaase. I am not worried about the contract though. He is a top 50 player and peolple that say otherwise are wrong.

[Coco Costanza]

his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option.

This is pretty grim if this is true. Because the Raptors treat him like he's the 1st option, the face of the franchise.

[PushDaRock]

He is miscast right now - his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option on offense like he was when Nurse was still here.

Next year with Brandon Ingram and Quickley healthy and playing he will slot back more naturally into his correct role.

Turns out, Nurse and co were right about him. Hell of a player, just not in a flashy or typical way.

The funny thing is Nurse actually tried to have him play PG too in year 2 and it was a disaster for the entire team before he was forced to put Fred back on the ball. We let that experiment go on way too long.

The question is can you even build a contender with him taking up a Max slot as a 4th option? I would say no unless he becomes a prime Gobert/Draymond impact level defender.

The rookie max is different than a max slot. He is not even top 30 paid in the league, but I beleive defensively he can get there to be a top 30 impact player. He borderline is there already.

There are few guys that can match his combo of size / playmaking / defence

I was on the focus his energy on D instead of offense train very early. He has the most untapped potential on that end of the floor imo. Only reason anyone is holding out hope for him offensively is from his 13 game run last season.

Another issue is even in those Nurse years, he wasn't efficient either. He's just never been efficient period no matter what role he's had offensively so we can't automatically assume he can even get to league average if he was averaging 15 ppg again. His offensive development has been beyond disappointing if we are being honest.

[Duffman100]

He is miscast right now - his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option on offense like he was when Nurse was still here.

Next year with Brandon Ingram and Quickley healthy and playing he will slot back more naturally into his correct role.

Turns out, Nurse and co were right about him. Hell of a player, just not in a flashy or typical way.

Basically this. Players weren't blocking him but rather he played better with them on the court and numbers supported this. I wouldn't say 4th or 5th, but I see him as 3rd

I thought he had superstar potential and it looks like it just won't quite hit that.

[Mr Funk]

Ah, here we go, the Scottie slander thread. It was inevitable with zero patience fans who love to tear players down and require instant gratification, 'what have you done for me lately? wah!'

Scottie has been playing with a hand contusion and bum ankle and has never been asked nor played like this prior in his life, being the #1 main guy. This is all new for Scottie. But this is also old news: we learned this when we drafted him; that he needed to develop a jump shot, mid-range game and three point shot. The fact that his mid-range has come this far so soon is really impressive. Plus of course, Scottie was practically shooting lights out from three at the start of the '23-'24 season. We've seen him shoot well and it's inevitable that someone so talented can get back to that standard through more hard work and developing further this summer.

Scottie isn't a finished product yet. He still needs to develop as he's nowhere near his ceiling.

Regardless, he really has to work his ass off this summer (improve the footwork, develop more of a bag and continue improving that handle).

However, this was the point of this season: to experiment, play outside of their comfort zones and develop, while racking up the Ls.

Nonetheless, this kind of nuance is often just tossed aside and not considered, ie "excuses! wah!" and sports fans in general tend to be overly reactionary and negative to such an extent that they end up digging their own hole:

Is Shai a little overrated?
He’s the primary option, and still doesn’t seem to have made any improvements in his game and is still pretty passive. I think everyone just needs to be realistic about him. At best, he’s a third option on a championship team. But I don’t think you build the whole enchilada around him when Baze and Dort are outplaying him most nights.

I realize that’s going to be unpopular, but I think it’s gotta become a realization. He’s a good player, but not this franchise-altering guy

I think we can all agree we shouldnt be planning on him being the primary option in the future but he will be a big piece for us and could possibly be a second option. He can come off as a little overrated i guess cause hes our best player and we stan him so much.

Yeah I’m not saying he isn’t part of the puzzle, but people don’t need to act like he’s going to be the savior. He’s not. He’s a secondary option to whoever we draft

He's currently and 18/6 type of guy. We need him to be a 24/8 type guy. Sometimes I feel he's on track and sometimes I feel he's not going to be that guy. Hard to get a read. Fringe All star potential I think. I don't think he'll be superstar level.

That being said, he's not a KD, Harden, Luka type scorer, and probably never will be. The player that I think of most when I watch Shai is Ginobili. Crafty, below the rim playmaker with good court awareness. Capable on a given night of being the best player on the floor. That's probably his ceiling. And if it is (and if he gets there) holy ****, that's incredible. That's a huge piece in building a contending team.

The truth is that even if we hit big on the next couple drafts we're probably still going to be 2-4 years from being a contender.

I like Shai but I still believe Bazley is the player with the most potential. The offense needs to flow through him a little more.Bazley kept us in the game today until later in the 3rd and 4th quarter. The team is still figuring out the dynamics of the offense but Bazley needs to at least be the 2nd option.

link

[Coco Costanza]

He is miscast right now - his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option on offense like he was when Nurse was still here.

Next year with Brandon Ingram and Quickley healthy and playing he will slot back more naturally into his correct role.

Turns out, Nurse and co were right about him. Hell of a player, just not in a flashy or typical way.

Basically this. Players weren't blocking him but rather he played better with them on the court and numbers supported this. I wouldn't say 4th or 5th, but I see him as 3rd

I thought he had superstar potential and it looks like it just won't quite hit that.

If that's the case, should we keep RJ assuming Ingram is our number 1 option?

[YogurtProducer]

Ah, here we go, the Scottie slander thread. It was inevitable with zero patience fans who love to tear players down and require instant gratification, 'what have you done for me lately? wah!'

Scottie has been playing with a hand contusion and bum ankle and has never been asked nor played like this prior in his life, being the #1 main guy. This is all new for Scottie. But this is also old news: we learned this when we drafted him; that he needed to develop a jump shot, mid-range game and three point shot. The fact that his mid-range has come this far so soon is really impressive.

Regardless, he really has to work his ass off this summer (improve the footwork, develop more of a bag and continue improving that handle).

However, this was the point of this season: to experiment, play outside of their comfort zones and develop, while racking up the Ls.

Nonetheless, this kind of nuance is often just tossed aside and not considered, ie "excuses! wah!" and sports fans in general tend to be overly reactionary and negative to such an extent that they end up digging their own hole:

Is Shai a little overrated?
He’s the primary option, and still doesn’t seem to have made any improvements in his game and is still pretty passive. I think everyone just needs to be realistic about him. At best, he’s a third option on a championship team. But I don’t think you build the whole enchilada around him when Baze and Dort are outplaying him most nights.

I realize that’s going to be unpopular, but I think it’s gotta become a realization. He’s a good player, but not this franchise-altering guy

I think we can all agree we shouldnt be planning on him being the primary option in the future but he will be a big piece for us and could possibly be a second option. He can come off as a little overrated i guess cause hes our best player and we stan him so much.

Yeah I’m not saying he isn’t part of the puzzle, but people don’t need to act like he’s going to be the savior. He’s not. He’s a secondary option to whoever we draft

He's currently and 18/6 type of guy. We need him to be a 24/8 type guy. Sometimes I feel he's on track and sometimes I feel he's not going to be that guy. Hard to get a read. Fringe All star potential I think. I don't think he'll be superstar level.

That being said, he's not a KD, Harden, Luka type scorer, and probably never will be. The player that I think of most when I watch Shai is Ginobili. Crafty, below the rim playmaker with good court awareness. Capable on a given night of being the best player on the floor. That's probably his ceiling. And if it is (and if he gets there) holy ****, that's incredible. That's a huge piece in building a contending team.

The truth is that even if we hit big on the next couple drafts we're probably still going to be 2-4 years from being a contender.

I like Shai but I still believe Bazley is the player with the most potential. The offense needs to flow through him a little more.Bazley kept us in the game today until later in the 3rd and 4th quarter. The team is still figuring out the dynamics of the offense but Bazley needs to at least be the 2nd option.

link

Anyone saying something negaive about Scottie is not "Scottie slander". Slander is telling falsehoods. What we are saying about Scottie is just true.

Also, SGA is the outlier. And for what its worth, SGA at the same age was already significantly better offensively than Scottie is right now. In year 3 as a 21 year old he put up 24/5/6 on 62.3TS%. His worst season on his rookie deal efficiency wise was a 55.4TS% which is within 1% of Scotties best.

Quoting stupid people doesn't prove your point. No one in their right mind thought Darius Bazely was a better prospect than SGA. People just love role players, but the funny thing is in this situation Scottie is the role player. He is the defense first guy who can chip in offensively, but there is NOTHING to suggest he is going to be an elite offensive player.

Almost all those posts anyways are right. Most guys are 2nd options on championship teams. Breaking through to MVP caliber is almost impossible, and that is true for 21 year old SGA and 23 year old Barnes.

Hype up Scotties mid range shot all you want. He is shooting 49% from 10-16 feet and 35 from the long 2. That is not an impressive feat by any means, and is still an inefficient shot.

EDIT: I finally clicked the reddit link. Your big "AHA" is a post with 0 upvotes and 23 total comments on a platform like reddit? come on man

[Boogie!]

This isn’t an elephant in the room and you’re right.

[TorontoBarneys]

Is there even anyone left on this forum who thinks he's being held back or something? We know more or less what he is offensively now. His game can still be polished but he's not your go-to guy.

[Brinbe]

I think it's fair to be a bit worried and you'd ideally like to see more positive progression in his stats/overall game but he still is only 23 and has made a habit of proving people wrong in his short career thus far. I think he'll show more next season.

[TakeYourHeart]

Ah, here we go, the Scottie slander thread. It was inevitable with zero patience fans who love to tear players down and require instant gratification, 'what have you done for me lately? wah!'

Scottie has been playing with a hand contusion and bum ankle and has never been asked nor played like this prior in his life, being the #1 main guy. This is all new for Scottie. But this is also old news: we learned this when we drafted him; that he needed to develop a jump shot, mid-range game and three point shot. The fact that his mid-range has come this far so soon is really impressive. Plus of course, Scottie was practically shooting lights out from three at the start of the '23-'24 season. We've seen him shoot well and it's inevitable that someone so talented can get back to that standard through more hard work and developing further this summer.

Scottie isn't a finished product yet. He still needs to develop as he's nowhere near his ceiling.

Regardless, he really has to work his ass off this summer (improve the footwork, develop more of a bag and continue improving that handle).

However, this was the point of this season: to experiment, play outside of their comfort zones and develop, while racking up the Ls.

Nonetheless, this kind of nuance is often just tossed aside and not considered, ie "excuses! wah!" and sports fans in general tend to be overly reactionary and negative to such an extent that they end up digging their own hole:

Is Shai a little overrated?
He’s the primary option, and still doesn’t seem to have made any improvements in his game and is still pretty passive. I think everyone just needs to be realistic about him. At best, he’s a third option on a championship team. But I don’t think you build the whole enchilada around him when Baze and Dort are outplaying him most nights.

I realize that’s going to be unpopular, but I think it’s gotta become a realization. He’s a good player, but not this franchise-altering guy

I think we can all agree we shouldnt be planning on him being the primary option in the future but he will be a big piece for us and could possibly be a second option. He can come off as a little overrated i guess cause hes our best player and we stan him so much.

Yeah I’m not saying he isn’t part of the puzzle, but people don’t need to act like he’s going to be the savior. He’s not. He’s a secondary option to whoever we draft

He's currently and 18/6 type of guy. We need him to be a 24/8 type guy. Sometimes I feel he's on track and sometimes I feel he's not going to be that guy. Hard to get a read. Fringe All star potential I think. I don't think he'll be superstar level.

That being said, he's not a KD, Harden, Luka type scorer, and probably never will be. The player that I think of most when I watch Shai is Ginobili. Crafty, below the rim playmaker with good court awareness. Capable on a given night of being the best player on the floor. That's probably his ceiling. And if it is (and if he gets there) holy ****, that's incredible. That's a huge piece in building a contending team.

The truth is that even if we hit big on the next couple drafts we're probably still going to be 2-4 years from being a contender.

I like Shai but I still believe Bazley is the player with the most potential. The offense needs to flow through him a little more.Bazley kept us in the game today until later in the 3rd and 4th quarter. The team is still figuring out the dynamics of the offense but Bazley needs to at least be the 2nd option.

link

Even the most critical of Shai said he looks like a potential 2nd option. Which means he was showing growth in his 3rd and 4th years but they didn't think he could make that final leap to be the guy.

We're here saying he looks like a 4th option. The situations are not comparable.

[djsunyc]

his best role was when he was the 4th/5th option.

This is pretty grim if this is true. Because the Raptors treat him like he's the 1st option, the face of the franchise.

don't mind PR stuff. none of that matters. we will get a much better idea next year where he fits offensively. i do think he is going to make a push for all defense next season as he has definitely better there.

masai understands scottie's scoring limitations which is why ingram is here now.

[Psubs]

Scottie has improved his POA defense and should be 1st team all-defense.

Right now on offense he was jacking up a tonne of 3's now he's being a little more selective.

He's added the mid-range jumper with an occasional turnaround one so his %'s are down. He is adding to the repertoire in a re-tooling year. All good.