RealGM

How far does this team get with a good veteran bench?

Miss playoffs?
Lose in the 1st round?
2nd round fodder?
ECF?
Finals?

How many regular season wins?

Decent bench. 2nd round ceiling. Maybe ECF in a weak year.

2nd round ceiling.

1st or 2nd round at most. Fred's efficiency has gone down the last two years. He was never super efficient to begin with. Pascal without Hali, Turner and the deep bench Indy has wouldn't be in the finals right now.

OG is good, but he is not the difference maker. Norm has been amazing this past year, but still that backcourt of Norm and Fred would get exploited if they were playing either Indy or OKC right now.

Can't see this line-up getting past the Cavs, Boston or the Knicks.

Trading Norm was the beginning of the downfall for that team. We were already lacking shot creators and then you trade him for a stand still shooter in GTJ.

That kicked off a 3 year span where Masai and Bobby just lost their heads.

It's kinda crazy when you look at how much all those guys are making now.

24/25 Salary:
VV: 42.8M
NP: 19.2M
OG: 36.6M
PS: 42.1M
JP: 19.5M
TOTAL: 160.2M

If they were all on long term contracts and focused on basketball, they could win a round.

The fun question is how far do Fred, OG, Pascal, and Jakob go with a number 1 option. Knocking all of those guys down a notch while having a guy who can score late in the game? They probably go far.

Having a secondary ball handler like Norm would have helped out Fred immensely. As well as him being a spot up target that can also attack. Nice starting lineup imo, but we’d need a coach that can maximize it and get around the inevitable lack of superstar/closer it has the way the Pacers can do. Well, Halliburton is arguably one of the best closers in the game now so maybe that’s a bad example lol.

that's a quality starting 5 that doesn't have a go-to player.

1st round, maybe 2nd depending on matchup.

djsunyc wrote:that's a quality starting 5 that doesn't have a go-to player.

1st round, maybe 2nd depending on matchup.

ya, they'd have to make a consolidation trade by trading 2-3 of them plus picks for an upgrade, like they did with Kawhi if the goal is title.

With good veteran depth that team definitely wins a round and could win another. Compare that to the last time Poeltl/FVV/OG/Siakam were together. The absolute trash we had coming off the bench in 2021-22 and 2022-23 was a major setback for those teams. Low IQ bums like Boucher and Precious. Rotation minutes by Khem, Thad, Svi, Flynn, Juancho, Barton, Dalano and other rejects. A league average bench would be a massive, massive upgrade. Current Norm is also so much better than Trent.

No #1 option or elite playmaker like Hali so a hard cap on their ceiling, but would be a fun team to watch.

Masai is the GOAT at drafting.

the series of events is pretty crazy after the 2 years after the chip:

after 18/19:
- kawhi leaves in free agency
- because of that, we let danny green walk so we don't pay tax
- lone draft pick was a bust - dewan hernandez
- after 2019, we lose 2 starters and unable to draft replacements

19/20:
- covid
- gasol leaves in free agency
- ibaka leaves in free agency
- drafted busts - malachi + jalen harris
- after 2020, lose 2 more rotational players and unable to draft replacements

20/21:
- in tampa
- trade norm for gary
- draft scottie
- draft busts - delano, david johnson

following the 2nd season after the chip, we lost 4 rotation players, swapped out norm for gary and drafted scottie. so net is minus 3 rotation players from the chip team.

imho, that was the main negative for masai post chip - unable to draft rotation guys like he did prior to the chip.

Duffman100 wrote:Decent bench. 2nd round ceiling. Maybe ECF in a weak year.

My thought as well.

'25 salaries

42.8 mill
19.2 mill
36.6 mill
42.1 mill
19.5 mill
-----
160.2 mill


edit: Oops Oakely beat me to it.

Add KD to that lineup from trading Scottie Barnes + all our future picks

Ship

OakleyDokely wrote:It's kinda crazy when you look at how much all those guys are making now.

24/25 Salary:
VV: 42.8M
NP: 19.2M
OG: 36.6M
PS: 42.1M
JP: 19.5M
TOTAL: 160.2M

Not any more crazy than what we are or will be paying the likes of Barnes, IQ and RJ.

Norman averaged 22pts on 42% 3PT to help LAC to win 50 games. FVV was only 2-yr commitment (3rd yr team option) which fit within HOU's salary structure and he was a key leader to help HOU to 2nd place in West. NYK have been winning since OG got there and he help them to ECF. And Pascal?

If there's anything that's crazy, it's seeing Pascal as the leading scorer for IND that's now 2 wins from a Championship. So happy for him!

Don't think you can go far with FVV as the starting PG and no one that can offset his downsides.

Second round is the ceiling.

I think they go further with Turner instead of Yak but Fred is the weaklink and that was the case with the old core. He's ideally a 2 guard who benefited from playing next to Lowry.

djsunyc wrote:the series of events is pretty crazy after the 2 years after the chip:

after 18/19:
- kawhi leaves in free agency
- because of that, we let danny green walk so we don't pay tax
- lone draft pick was a bust - dewan hernandez
- after 2019, we lose 2 starters and unable to draft replacements

19/20:
- covid
- gasol leaves in free agency
- ibaka leaves in free agency
- drafted busts - malachi + jalen harris
- after 2020, lose 2 more rotational players and unable to draft replacements

20/21:
- in tampa
- trade norm for gary
- draft scottie
- draft busts - delano, david johnson

following the 2nd season after the chip, we lost 4 rotation players, swapped out norm for gary and drafted scottie. so net is minus 3 rotation players from the chip team.

imho, that was the main negative for masai post chip - unable to draft rotation guys like he did prior to the chip.

Gotta consider TD, Koloko, Porter Jr, Jalen Harris. They've had some real bad luck with potential draft/UDFA finds that went sideways too in circumstances outside their control