TWO challenge to outdo Masai/Bobby/Dan

[Gold Dragon]

Here is TWO’s chance to show your brilliance. Say the Raps were run by the TWO thread since the 2021 trade deadline.

So no Thad, Poeltl, RJ, IQ, BI, Ochai, etc. Pascal, OG and Fred are traded for picks.

Say we get lucky every year and win the #2 pick in the lottery, have pick #15 outside the lottery and pick #31 in the second round since the 2023 draft and kept pick #20 in 2022.

Piece together the dream team the Raptors would have today with your brilliance.

One example might be:

Kessler/Fillipowski/Sorber
SB/GG Jackson/Fleming
Miller/George
Harper/Podz
Castle

Compared to

JP
SB/CMB/Mogbo
BI/Ochai/GD
RJ/Walter/Martin
IQ/Shead

Which team has the better chance to turn into a championship squad before Scottie retires?

2022 pick #20 was Branhum, Kessler was #22 who is a TWO favourite

2023 pick #2 was Miller who I chose.
2023 pick #15 was Bufkin, I chose Podz who was #19
2023 pick #31 was Nnaji, I chose Jackson who was #45

2024 pick #2 was Sarr, I chose Castle who was #4
2024 pick #15 was Ware, I chose George who was #24
2024 pick #31 was Mogbo, I chose Filipowski who was #32

2025 pick #2 was Harper who I picked
2025 pick #15 was Sorber who I picked
2025 pick #31 was Fleming who I picked

[RoteSchroder]

how do trades work, what if I want to trade Scottie. Why do we need to build around him.

[Randle McMurphy]

Do we get to win the Wemby or Flagg lotteries in that scenario? Because that probably is determinative of the entire question.

[CPT]

This looks fun, but you could probably even turn the dials down a bit or run a lottery simulator for each year.

As it is, I’d windmill slam the first team. I might give the exercise a try myself when I’m wasting time at work

[NinjaBro]

If TWO ran the raps, they would've traded Demar for Lance Stephenson and maxed him out. Traded Pascal Siakam for AJ Griffin. The list goes on and on. Team would've been a total disaster.

We'd be in worse shape than the process Sixers. Meanwhile team "treadmill" wins championship

[Appostis]

Do we get to win the Wemby or Flagg lotteries in that scenario? Because that probably is determinative of the entire question.

Did the highest tanking teams get those 2 picks?
If the awnsers no then you don't really have a point...

[Gold Dragon]

Do we get to win the Wemby or Flagg lotteries in that scenario? Because that probably is determinative of the entire question.

So it is not good enough that you can pick from the pot of everyone else that has been drafted in the last 3 years and everyone from pick #20 on in 2022? The only way TWO can outdo Masai/Bobby/Dan is if you get a first overall pick? That can’t be right for such a proven and guaranteed strategy like TWO given how incompetently Masai et al have been running things.

[ontnut]

1. Dylan
2. Dylan
3. Dylan
4. Dylan
5. Dylan

[ontnut]

Tank for Rubio!
Tank for Wiggins!
....remember these TWO threads? lol

You know what I don't remember? The Tank for Tatum thread or the Doncic #1 overall thread. Where was the trade up for SGA? Who wanted Simmons, or KAT, or Ayton?

5/7 of the last Finals MVPs (probably should be 7/9 if not for Durant Warriors) were drafted 7+. The 2 that weren't, one is Lebron who is a 20 year phenomenon, the other probably shouldn't have been - and is the by-product of probably THE most lopsided trade in NBA history (Jaylen Brown/Tatum).

IND almost won the chip this year, 18-19 Raptors style with no top 10 picks, their top 2 guys arriving via trade. OKC's top 2 guys were drafted outside of the top 10, as was the rest of the supporting cast outside of Chet.

With the new salary cap rules and player empowerment era, it's anyone's ball game.

[Psubs]

2021
#2 Evan Mobley for sure, I was hoping he would drop to #4.

2022
#2 Chet to form the Twin Towers
#20 Nikola Jovic (though I did also want Christian Braun)

2023
#2 Brandon Miller
#15 Brandin Podziemski
#31 Leonard Miller

2024
#2 Reed Sheppard (I'm sticking to him as that's who I would've picked #2 without hindsight)
#15 Jared McCain
#31 Tyler Smith

2025
#2 Dylan Harper (though I would consider trading down for Tre Johnson)
#15 Hansen Yang
#31 Rasheer Fleming

PG Harper/Reed
SG Podz - McCain
SF BMiller - Jovic - LMiller
PF Chet - Fleming/Smith
C Mobley - Chet - Yang

[ontnut]

Here is TWO’s chance to show your brilliance. Say the Raps were run by the TWO thread since the 2021 trade deadline.

So no Thad, Poeltl, RJ, IQ, BI, Ochai, etc. Pascal, OG and Fred are traded for picks.

Say we get lucky every year and win the #2 pick in the lottery, have pick #15 outside the lottery and pick #31 in the second round since the 2023 draft and kept pick #20 in 2022.

Piece together the dream team the Raptors would have today with your brilliance.

One example might be:

Kessler/Fillipowski/Sorber
SB/GG Jackson/Fleming
Miller/George
Harper/Podz
Castle

Compared to

JP
SB/CMB/Mogbo
BI/Ochai/GD
RJ/Walter/Martin
IQ/Shead

Which team has the better chance to turn into a championship squad before Scottie retires?

OP for this exercise, it'd be good if you gave us the top examples from each draft slot.

That being said, health not being a thing, I'd take this current raptors lineup in a playoff series over the "TWO" example you gave.

[Gold Dragon]

One example might be:

Kessler/Fillipowski/Sorber
SB/GG Jackson/Fleming
Miller/George
Harper/Podz
Castle

OP for this exercise, it'd be good if you gave us the top examples from each draft slot.

2022 pick #20 was Branhum, Kessler was #22 who is a TWO favourite

2023 pick #2 was Miller who I chose.
2023 pick #15 was Bufkin, I chose Podz who was #19
2023 pick #31 was Nnaji, I chose Jackson who was #45

2024 pick #2 was Sarr, I chose Castle who was #4
2024 pick #15 was Ware, I chose George who was #24
2024 pick #31 was Mogbo, I chose Filipowski who was #32

2025 pick #2 was Harper who I picked
2025 pick #15 was Sorber who I picked
2025 pick #31 was Fleming who I picked

[bboyskinnylegs]

ok let's try this:
Clingan(#2,2024)/Rasheer(#31,2025)/Filipowski(#31,2024)
Scottie/Camara(#31,2023)
Amen(#2,2023)/Whitmore(#15,2023)
Harper(#2,2025)/Kasparas(#15,2025)
McCain(#15,2024)/Nembhard(#20,2022)

realistically, I probably would have taken Leonard Miller over Camara at the time. Sorber vs Kasparas is close. I would consider VJ or Tre over Harper, but probably would be too chicken to actually do it.

[Los_29]

Our current team is better but the other team would be cheaper. And luckily for tWo, our team would still stink so we would get another lottery pick.

[Pointgod]

Here is TWO’s chance to show your brilliance. Say the Raps were run by the TWO thread since the 2021 trade deadline.

So no Thad, Poeltl, RJ, IQ, BI, Ochai, etc. Pascal, OG and Fred are traded for picks.

Say we get lucky every year and win the #2 pick in the lottery, have pick #15 outside the lottery and pick #31 in the second round since the 2023 draft and kept pick #20 in 2022.

Piece together the dream team the Raptors would have today with your brilliance.

One example might be:

Kessler/Fillipowski/Sorber
SB/GG Jackson/Fleming
Miller/George
Harper/Podz
Castle

Compared to

JP
SB/CMB/Mogbo
BI/Ochai/GD
RJ/Walter/Martin
IQ/Shead

Which team has the better chance to turn into a championship squad before Scottie retires?

2022 pick #20 was Branhum, Kessler was #22 who is a TWO favourite

2023 pick #2 was Miller who I chose.
2023 pick #15 was Bufkin, I chose Podz who was #19
2023 pick #31 was Nnaji, I chose Jackson who was #45

2024 pick #2 was Sarr, I chose Castle who was #4
2024 pick #15 was Ware, I chose George who was #24
2024 pick #31 was Mogbo, I chose Filipowski who was #32

2025 pick #2 was Harper who I picked
2025 pick #15 was Sorber who I picked
2025 pick #31 was Fleming who I picked

Can we make trades?

[Gold Dragon]

Can we make trades?

The idea of tanking is to maximize and go all in on the draft. This is giving people the opportunity to show how great a strategy that is by allowing you complete access to everyone in the draft except for the #1 pick. You get the full advantage of hindsight up to today, 2 first round picks (only 1 in the lottery) and any second rounder you want. Also UDFAs as well who shouldn't be forgotten. This combination of picks is better than most tanking teams usually get.

The obvious intelligent guaranteed best strategy of those smart folks in TWO should easily outperform the incompetent shortsighted homer moves done by Masai et al who have been asleep at the wheel. I'm just waiting for all these brilliant lineups to show up.

If you want to make trades, I would show the team with the picks first and then show the trades you propose.

[ConSarnit]

Well team TWO has about $60m in cap space which could be used to facilitate salary dumps or sign short term vets to balloon contracts (the FVV special). TWO is also much better suited to try and trade for a star given the value of Harper/Castle/Miller vs IQ/RJ/BI. Miller probably has Ingram upside. Harper and Castle’s upside is above IQ/RJ.

If the question is who has a better chance of winning 44 games next year then it’s the current team. If it’s which team has more all-star upside then it’s clearly TWO. If you can use the $60m in cap space on 2 solid vets I think team TWO closes the gap pretty quickly. Throw in 1 overpaid SG and the bench becomes Castle/Podz/Filpowski/$15m vet/MLE vet. Seems like the gap with the current team gets closed pretty quickly while maintaining the upside.

[Gold Dragon]

Well team TWO has about $60m in cap space which could be used to facilitate salary dumps or sign short term vets to balloon contracts (the FVV special). TWO is also much better suited to try and trade for a star given the value of Harper/Castle/Miller vs IQ/RJ/BI. Miller probably has Ingram upside. Harper and Castle’s upside is above IQ/RJ.

If the question is who has a better chance of winning 44 games next year then it’s the current team. If it’s which team has more all-star upside then it’s clearly TWO. If you can use the $60m in cap space on 2 solid vets I think team TWO closes the gap pretty quickly. Throw in 1 overpaid SG and the bench becomes Castle/Podz/Filpowski/$15m vet/MLE vet. Seems like the gap with the current team gets closed pretty quickly while maintaining the upside.

The question is which team has a better chance at eventually winning a championship. Further trades after the drafts are a reasonable consideration. But then you are saying that you couldn't draft the "star" player you wanted to win a chip, you still have to trade for one.

For the sake of simplicity we should take future drafts out of the picture which muddy the water. But one of the arguments of TWO is that we would only tank for a short period of time. Is 4 years short? Would Scottie stick around that long on a perpetually losing team?

[ConSarnit]

Well team TWO has about $60m in cap space which could be used to facilitate salary dumps or sign short term vets to balloon contracts (the FVV special). TWO is also much better suited to try and trade for a star given the value of Harper/Castle/Miller vs IQ/RJ/BI. Miller probably has Ingram upside. Harper and Castle’s upside is above IQ/RJ.

If the question is who has a better chance of winning 44 games next year then it’s the current team. If it’s which team has more all-star upside then it’s clearly TWO. If you can use the $60m in cap space on 2 solid vets I think team TWO closes the gap pretty quickly. Throw in 1 overpaid SG and the bench becomes Castle/Podz/Filpowski/$15m vet/MLE vet. Seems like the gap with the current team gets closed pretty quickly while maintaining the upside.

The question is which team has a better chance at eventually winning a championship. Further trades after the drafts are a reasonable consideration. But then you are saying that you couldn't draft the "star" player you wanted to win a chip, you still have to trade for one.

For the sake of simplicity we should take future drafts out of the picture which muddy the water. But one of the arguments of TWO is that we would only tank for a short period of time. Is 4 years short? Would Scottie stick around that long on a perpetually losing team?

Team TWO is better set up to win a title either through internal development or trades. Harper/Castle/Miller + Barnes is 4 guys with all-star upside. Those guys are also more valuable in a potential star trade than IQ or RJ. I think we could round out the roster to be a similar low level playoff team (as we are now) by overpaying NAW and Brook Lopez on 2 year balloons deals. I think this mitigates possible losing Barnes (which given his lack of offensive development I don’t actually think would be a crippling loss).

Harper/Tyus Jones(?)
NAW/Podz
Miller/Castle
Barnes/Filipowski
Lopez/Kessler

Pretty balanced team who is at min a play-in team in the weak East imo.

[anj]

OP has to be a teacher, coach or parent, because this is a masterful Socratic lesson, and top-shelf bating. Hats off.