Poll: Which of these do you consider facts about the Raptors?

[djsunyc]

which of the following do you consider facts about the raptors? (you can vote for more than one so pick all the ones you think are true)

- ownership will not let the gm go into tax
- ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender
- ownership will not let the team willingly tank for more than 1 season
- the better nba players do not want to play in toronto
- we must overpay players to come or stay in toronto
- the gm's job here is tougher than most other teams

[Purple+Black]

Pelley, is that you?

I have to say, consulting the RealGM Raptors board is probably the first and last good thing you will do in your short-lived role

[Jerry Lucas]

To clarify something about the 2nd poll option, ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender, but a lot of posters here have fundamentally misunderstood what constitutes a contender from ownership's POV.

During the We The North era, ownership only approved tax spending in the season we had Kawhi. None of the other Raptors teams of that era (and there were 4 other 50+ win teams in there, including the 2019-20 season right after we won the chip) were allowed to spend above the tax threshold.

In that time period, repeater penalties were also nowhere near as harsh as they are about to become now. Some of you really need to come to grips with the fact that ownership will not allow the FO to start the repeater clock this year, for this team.

[MiamiSPX]

- ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender
- the better NBA players do not want to play in Toronto
- we must overpay players to come or stay in Toronto

[OakleyDokely]

I actually think it's a Raptors strategy to be a little more generous on contracts with their own players, especially the guys they draft and develop. Take care of your own first. You can be a hardass in negotiations but you're going to piss off a lot of players and their powerful agents. For the most part, they've created a culture that consists of players who are happy in Toronto (during good and bad times) who are more likely to re-sign when their deals are done.

I think the overpay thing is overblown as well. It's hard to pick out many NBA teams who don't have contracts that would be considered overpayments to some degree. Every team needs to do it with certain guys. As long as you can manage around the tax, I don't see it as much of a problem, unless you need to start trading valuable picks to get off the contracts.

[TorontoRapsFan]

Ownership won't allow tanking seasons. They won't take the risk of becoming irrelevant and lose revenue for 10 years. No way. Risk outweighs the pros in business sense.

Gms job is tough for sure

[Raps Next GM]

IMO:
• ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender

But I believe that to be true for probably 90% of franchises, maybe more. That’s just prudent team management. Frankly, the fact we’re at the cap with this roster is mismanagement.


• ownership will not let the team willingly tank for more than 1 season

I think one season is a bit extreme, but they won’t put up with tanking for very long, nor should they. As fans, we shouldn’t want them to, either.


• the better nba players do not want to play in toronto

I don’t know if “better” players are necessarily the issue, but more ignorant ones certainly don’t. But I believe that is the same for many teams, Utah, Minnesota, Milwaukee, etc.
Toronto should be viewed in the upper echelon of destinations but we aren’t. However if we can build a championship core, then I think big names will want to join a winner. A couple of years ago, no one wanted to be in OKC, but I bet now many players would love to join the Thunder.
We’ll never be Miami, Los Angeles or New York, franchises that will always draw interest from players regardless of success or lack there of, but I think if we can contend, we will be more attractive to players.
There are a lot of reasons why players would love to play here, if they are willing to overlook the fact that it is not in the U.S.


• we must overpay players to come or stay in toronto

Yes, mostly for the reasons above. But we’re not unique in that position.


• the gm's job here is tougher than most other teams

I don’t believe so. Yes, you have to deal with the above challenges but you have an ownership that will spend, and will give you a fair bit of autonomy and stability (based on their ownership of the Jays). Players are recognized enough to make endorsement money and be treated with the celebrity they enjoy, but not so much like Leafs’ players who feel an immense burden of pressure.
Yes, taxes are higher but they’re paid in US dollars with expenses in Canadian dollars, which offsets much of the tax concerns.
The winters suck here but Toronto is a favourite city among many players. We’re generally liberal and accepting of various backgrounds and fairly safe, compared to most US cities that have NBA teams.

I believe the difficulties of the GM job are probably middle of the pack.

[DreamTeam09]

To clarify something about the 2nd poll option, ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender, but a lot of posters here have fundamentally misunderstood what constitutes a contender from ownership's POV.

During the We The North era, ownership only approved tax spending in the season we had Kawhi. None of the other Raptors teams of that era (and there were 4 other 50+ win teams in there, including the 2019-20 season right after we won the chip) were allowed to spend above the tax threshold.

In that time period, repeater penalties were also nowhere near as harsh as they are about to become now. Some of you really need to come to grips with the fact that ownership will not allow the FO to start the repeater clock this year, for this team.

The repeater penalties are for the aprons are they not?
You guys need to come to grips that the tax is not the sticking point anymore it's the Aprons, Bobby has already said as much.
+ The raps have always been good with dealing with the cap/tax - we always spend to the last dollar

+ going into the tax for a yr isn't the boogie man either, it's not like we are riddled with long-term contracts

[Jerry Lucas]

To clarify something about the 2nd poll option, ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender, but a lot of posters here have fundamentally misunderstood what constitutes a contender from ownership's POV.

During the We The North era, ownership only approved tax spending in the season we had Kawhi. None of the other Raptors teams of that era (and there were 4 other 50+ win teams in there, including the 2019-20 season right after we won the chip) were allowed to spend above the tax threshold.

In that time period, repeater penalties were also nowhere near as harsh as they are about to become now. Some of you really need to come to grips with the fact that ownership will not allow the FO to start the repeater clock this year, for this team.

The repeater penalties are for the aprons are they not?
You guys need to come to grips that the tax is not the sticking point anymore it's the Aprons, Bobby has already said as much.

Repeater penalties are in relation to being a "taxpayer", it's not apron specific. Being a taxpaying club is possible if you are over the tax line and under the 1st apron.

+ The raps have always been good with dealing with the cap/tax - we always spend to the last dollay

Yeah, and this season they plan on being successful at trading RJ this time around in order to do so (their Plan A was moving him last season in the Ingram trade).

[C_Money]

There might be a few players that don’t want to play in Canada but I think it’s way overstated by Raptor fans.

It actually seems to be a bigger issue in the NHL because of the fan and media pressure.

[TheAlchemist23]

All but #1

[DreamTeam09]

To clarify something about the 2nd poll option, ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender, but a lot of posters here have fundamentally misunderstood what constitutes a contender from ownership's POV.

During the We The North era, ownership only approved tax spending in the season we had Kawhi. None of the other Raptors teams of that era (and there were 4 other 50+ win teams in there, including the 2019-20 season right after we won the chip) were allowed to spend above the tax threshold.

In that time period, repeater penalties were also nowhere near as harsh as they are about to become now. Some of you really need to come to grips with the fact that ownership will not allow the FO to start the repeater clock this year, for this team.

The repeater penalties are for the aprons are they not?
You guys need to come to grips that the tax is not the sticking point anymore it's the Aprons, Bobby has already said as much.

Repeater penalties are in relation to being a "taxpayer", it's not apron specific. Being a taxpaying club is possible if you are over the tax line and under the 1st apron.

+ The raps have always been good with dealing with the cap/tax - we always spend to the last dollay

Yeah, and this season they plan on being successful at trading RJ this time around in order to do so (their Plan A was moving him last season in the Ingram trade).

I'll bet RJ finishes this year as a Raptor,

[SpezNc]

• ownership will not let the team willingly tank for more than 1 season

We only tank from start to finish for 1 season

I still think that at beginning of 2023-2024 even if a reset was likely I still think the goal was to win

I don’t think this ownership wants to losing teams especially not with spending just below the luxury threshold.

I still wonder on a pure financial standpoint if being “mid” is a good place to be even if it’s “meh” for the hardcore fans

[CPT]

- ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender

I think this is true and I kind of don't blame them? If that restricts the team from becoming a contender in the first place, but as far as the Raptors are concerned, I haven't really felt that money is a problem (at least not for the roster; front office and coaching, maybe).

- ownership will not let the team willingly tank for more than 1 season

This seems to be true and I do blame them. If management believes an extended rebuild (tanking) is the best way to build a long-term contender, then they should be allowed to do so. It's not binary, but I think this is demonstrably true. We had a bad season, drafted Scottie, immediately switched back to win-now. 23-24 was bad, but not "tanking" bad. 24-25 was tanking, and we are back to making win-now moves to push toward the middle.

- the better nba players do not want to play in toronto
- we must overpay players to come or stay in toronto

These two feel like the same point. I think they are true, but I also think they are true of all but a handful of teams. I (possibly naively) think players would prefer Toronto to a lot of small-to-mid markets in the US, particularly those with cold weather.

- the gm's job here is tougher than most other teams

I do not think this one is true. "Most" means half of the league. A lot of those small-to-mid market teams have it just as hard, and many have worse ownership situations as well. Even if you're talking about teams like the Knicks, Celtics, or Lakers, I don't think those jobs are "easy." Except for when other teams giftwrap generational talents for you.

[Kingsway_fan]

There might be a few players that don’t want to play in Canada but I think it’s way overstated by Raptor fans.

It actually seems to be a bigger issue in the NHL because of the fan and media pressure.

Lol few... ummmm ok. None of the pro franchises can attract talent -- all things being equal. The Raptors have known this for a long time. A 10 + percent CANADIAN TAX Premium just to be in the conversation.. even then, most won't sign.

Look at the MASSIVE OVERPAYMENT for Vlad by the Jays, as well as the other names signed... all massive overpays.

Ww are worst than small market in the NBA, in the eyes of MOST TOP TIER NBA TALENT...ESP American born players.

[Jerry Lucas]

The repeater penalties are for the aprons are they not?
You guys need to come to grips that the tax is not the sticking point anymore it's the Aprons, Bobby has already said as much.

Repeater penalties are in relation to being a "taxpayer", it's not apron specific. Being a taxpaying club is possible if you are over the tax line and under the 1st apron.

+ The raps have always been good with dealing with the cap/tax - we always spend to the last dollay

Yeah, and this season they plan on being successful at trading RJ this time around in order to do so (their Plan A was moving him last season in the Ingram trade).

I'll bet RJ finishes this year as a Raptor,

I'm not confident enough that RJ will be moved to bet that he'll be traded. I've posted previously that if they still can't find a trade they like for RJ by the deadline they'll move Ochai instead.

Basically the same thing happened last season with moves being made at the deadline (the new "pre-agency") in relation to tax flexibility for this season. Raptors tried to trade RJ in the Ingram deal, and the Pelicans didn't want to do it. Once RJ not moving at the deadline became a locked in scenario, they knew they wouldn't have enough tax room to re-sign Davion and traded him to Miami. If they had been successful at moving off RJ in the Ingram trade, my guess is they would have kept and re-signed Davion.

[Raps Next GM]

There might be a few players that don’t want to play in Canada but I think it’s way overstated by Raptor fans.

It actually seems to be a bigger issue in the NHL because of the fan and media pressure.

Lol few... ummmm ok. None of the pro franchises can attract talent -- all things being equal. The Raptors have known this for a long time. A 10 + percent CANADIAN TAX Premium just to be in the conversation.. even then, most won't sign.

Look at the MASSIVE OVERPAYMENT for Vlad by the Jays, as well as the other names signed... all massive overpays.

Ww are worst than small market in the NBA, in the eyes of MOST TOP TIER NBA TALENT...ESP American born players.

For those of us old enough to remember the Blue Jays’ glory days, Toronto was a very attractive destination because it was a model franchise that was a perennial contender. From Molitor, Stewart, Morris and the biggest free agent signing of all, Roger Clemens, being in Canada wasn’t really a hurdle.
If Kawhi had resigned in 2020, I bet a lot of players would have wanted to come here.

[ATLTimekeeper]

We just tanked for 2 seasons. How is that question even on the poll? Proven fact.

[tecumseh18]

To clarify something about the 2nd poll option, ownership will pay tax only if the team is a contender, but a lot of posters here have fundamentally misunderstood what constitutes a contender from ownership's POV.

During the We The North era, ownership only approved tax spending in the season we had Kawhi. None of the other Raptors teams of that era (and there were 4 other 50+ win teams in there, including the 2019-20 season right after we won the chip) were allowed to spend above the tax threshold.

In that time period, repeater penalties were also nowhere near as harsh as they are about to become now. Some of you really need to come to grips with the fact that ownership will not allow the FO to start the repeater clock this year, for this team.

Part of the problem in the last five years has been that many teams (e.g. Warriors) were so deep into the tax, that the the tax sharing payments to non-tax teams were 10+ mill per season. So the opportunity cost of going into the tax was huge. Especially for the Raptors who missed a whole season of revenue during the Tampa tank season.

As teams like the Warriors, Suns, Celtics, Bucks and even the Clippers start to reduce or eliminate their tax liability, that tax-sharing amount will surely decrease going forward. And make it more appealing for a 50+ win team to spend up to the first apron, at least.

[tecumseh18]

There might be a few players that don’t want to play in Canada but I think it’s way overstated by Raptor fans.

It actually seems to be a bigger issue in the NHL because of the fan and media pressure.

Lol few... ummmm ok. None of the pro franchises can attract talent -- all things being equal. The Raptors have known this for a long time. A 10 + percent CANADIAN TAX Premium just to be in the conversation.. even then, most won't sign.

Look at the MASSIVE OVERPAYMENT for Vlad by the Jays, as well as the other names signed... all massive overpays.

Ww are worst than small market in the NBA, in the eyes of MOST TOP TIER NBA TALENT...ESP American born players.

For those of us old enough to remember the Blue Jays’ glory days, Toronto was a very attractive destination because it was a model franchise that was a perennial contender. From Molitor, Stewart, Morris and the biggest free agent signing of all, Roger Clemens, being in Canada wasn’t really a hurdle.
If Kawhi had resigned in 2020, I bet a lot of players would have wanted to come here.

Those 92-93 Jays teams were by FAR the highest payroll teams in the majors. And baseball is played in summer. And the Canadian dollar was over 90 cents, so the team could afford to pay such high salaries.