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There were definitely benefits to his scouting past, and his ability to read people. gg Masai

There is no doubt that Masai's 16 picks have been very good. It is the 16 picks being too few that is the problem. If you are good at something, do more of that.

No one should be surprised by this.

Morey got a better grade despite his top 3 picks all did better on other teams lol.

Bobby was GM after 2017.

This is dumb.

And yet over the past 5 years, he's been trading away draft capital in futile attempts to try (and mostly fail) to make the playoffs.

TimeForChange wrote:Bobby was GM after 2017.

This is dumb.

Masai is the de facto GM and calls the shots
Think of bobby as the AGM

Zeno wrote:There is no doubt that Masai's 16 picks have been very good. It is the 16 picks being too few that is the problem. If you are good at something, do more of that.

This, use your super power - that being drafting and grab more picks...more chances at doing what your great at.

Tacoma wrote:And yet over the past 5 years, he's been trading away draft capital in futile attempts to try (and mostly fail) to make the playoffs.

And most of those trades turned out to be good moves.

Step 1 is identifying undervalued skills and drafting the right guy, but step 2 is developing that player and the Raps have been great at that part as well. That's where they've had a real advantage over the pack.

A lot of teams believe that just accumulating picks is a success. But accumulating picks doesn't necessarily mean you going to hit more, it just means there's more guys that soak up resources to develop and more minutes you need to find for them. A lot of prospects on these bad teams just get lost in the shuffle or get stuck behind the new flashy first rounders that were just brought in.

The Raps have basically made the picks they've had and developed those players. They've found the right mix between vets and young players and the environment they've created has been an important factor in their success. Bobby and Masai have both mentioned multiple times that it's very hard to develop a lot of young guys at the same time properly. Focus on the guys you like, that's a lot more important than just prioritizing quantity.

I clicked on one GM, and saw Morey get credit for Tyrese Maxey when it was Elton Brand's pick. The methodology seems to indicate that Zhou Qi and Royce White are better picks than, say, Kyle Kuzma. Surplus PM seems like a strange way to value players. Like Paul Reed is largely a journeyman. Kadeem Allen was not an NBA player, barely anything outside of garbage time minutes in 3 seasons and he's the 3rd highest Surplus PM player in Danny Ainge's career,

I think it's super flawed, but fun for discussion's sake.

Surprised at how low some other GMs are. Presti, Riley, and Myers are quite low on the list.

Masai had an incredible run. I like the last two drafts they had. I think they'll get a couple rotation players out of this group.

OakleyDokely wrote:Step 1 is identifying undervalued skills and drafting the right guy, but step 2 is developing that player and the Raps have been great at that part as well. That's where they've had a real advantage over the pack.

A lot of teams believe that just accumulating picks is a success. But accumulating picks doesn't necessarily mean you going to hit more, it just means there's more guys that soak up resources to develop and more minutes you need to find for them. A lot of prospects on these bad teams just get lost in the shuffle or get stuck behind the new flashy first rounders that were just brought in.

The Raps have basically made the picks they've had and developed those players. They've found the right mix between vets and young players and the environment they've created has been an important factor in their success. Bobby and Masai have both mentioned multiple times that it's very hard to develop a lot of young guys at the same time properly. Focus on the guys you like, that's a lot more important than just prioritizing quantity.

I am not suggesting that they flood the team with prospects, though that is kind of what they have done over the last two years isn't it? But before the last two years. you can't tell me that there was no room in the rotation for development of a pick or two. All it would have taken is replacing the development of some extremely fringe prospect in their near mid 20s for one with more upside from the draft. Going from 16 picks to 26 picks over the course of Masai's time here wouldn't have been unwieldly.

If true that Bobby and Dan wanted CMB and Masai wanted Maluach, I'm feeling ok

Looking at metrics Masai actually got screwed a bit, Pascal would be higher, but Dejounte Murray and Zubac were picked in the next 5 picks.

Flynn brought him way down because Bane was picked next. It's whole basis is comparing each pick to the next 5 picks afterwards. Guys taken in the 2nd that were role players, but with the next 5 guys being scrubs who never played get huge boosts.

There's very little doubt that Masai is one of the best drafting GMs, and historically even as well. There was someone who took an in depth look based on expected draft position value, and the Raptors from 2010 onwards were by far the best drafting team in the league. It wasn't even close.

For Masai personally he managed to draft; Faried, Fournier, Poeltl, Wright, Powell, Siakam, Anunoby, Barnes as picks you could qualify as either expected value at the slot, or significantly above value. Only Poeltl and Barnes were a top 10 picks. It is remarkable to get that much value from those picks. He has very few misses overall relative to basically every other GM. We'll see what Gradey, Jakobe, CMB manage (and really they all look like they will stick around to have some value in the league), but there's no doubt his record was elite. And that doesn't even include FVV as an undrafted signing.

Cyrus wrote:

Zeno wrote:There is no doubt that Masai's 16 picks have been very good. It is the 16 picks being too few that is the problem. If you are good at something, do more of that.

This, use your super power - that being drafting and grab more picks...more chances at doing what your great at.

No. Trade those picks for win now players who you then overpay!

bluerap23 wrote:If true that Bobby and Dan wanted CMB and Masai wanted Maluach, I'm feeling ok

That was your take away from this post?

Tacoma wrote:And yet over the past 5 years, he's been trading away draft capital in futile attempts to try (and mostly fail) to make the playoffs.

We traded down once, a first for Poeltl, and a first for Ingram (that hasn't even conveyed).

Why do people whenever we discuss picks being traded there is always great exaggerations about what actually took place?

In the "last 5 years", we have made 4 first round selections, and the only year we didn't was the year we went from a late 1st to an early 2nd.