Why has Jose changed his game?

[Trianoball]

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Not to derail the thread, but the answer is very simple:

When TJ starts (great stats) and the offence struggles, it's his fault cuz he's the lead guard. (Despite him doing everything he can to bring us back or win the game)

When Jose starts (great stats) and the offence struggles, it's everyone else's fault, because he's the lead guard. (Despite him playing within himself)

RDTX, does that make sense now? LOL.

Please let's all let this thread die now.

So did you create this argument because you actually believe in it, or because you'd like to compensate for the current double-standard that's bothering you?

Just admit it, it's not a strong argument...regardless of the tendency of posters to bash Ford for his weaknesses much more than they do for Calderon.

[dacrusha]

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There's a problem with these stats in that they are not reliable. Take Sunday for example. Jose guarded Lebron for a stretch. Lebron dishes to Boobie Gibson who nails the three. 82games.com registers this score as a FGA attempt for Calderon's opponent, when Calderon had nothing to do with Gibson. Another example is when Sam asks Calderon to be the second guy doubling a post player. If the PG happens to score off of the play, Calderon gets dinged for the opponent FGA. There are a ton of other examples like this.
Does anybody remember why Rafer Alston got into a fight with Sam? Yep, it was because doubling the post made him look bad defensively (i.e. his opponent was scoring).

So, before anybody passes judgement, understand that those stats are majorly flawed, in especially in light of Sam's defensive philosophy.

Fair enough; then this exception also hurts TJ's defensive stats, yet he still has outstanding numbers.

Jose has been brutal all year in his defensive assignments... and it's clear to see with or without the benefit of stats.

[Raptors90102]

I am big Jose fan (BUT that doesn't mean I hate TJ, I like him) and I must admit, Jose's been too passive lately. Its almost like he wants Bosh to be the focal point on each and every offensive set. While I admire his recognition of Bosh being the man for the raptors, he MUST beging getting a bit unselfish himself. He never looks for his shot and always prefers to get others their shots before he gets his. Which isn't good enough. Jose has the ability, talent and blessings from the coaching staff to take over games and he has to become a bit unselfish and try to do be a LOT more aggressive. He is becoming unselfish and passive to a fault and we all know, he is as good as anyone on this team if and when he chooses to take over the offesive load.

[Reignman]

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So did you create this argument because you actually believe in it, or because you'd like to compensate for the current double-standard that's bothering you?

Just admit it, it's not a strong argument...regardless of the tendency of posters to bash Ford for his weaknesses much more than they do for Calderon.

I'm used to the double standard, but that has nothing to do with this thread.

This thread is about our starting point guard having the ability / skill to do more to help this team win. Even though he has great stats, during the game he turns down opportunities to attack for reasons unknown to me.
That is what this thread is about.

[Death Knight]

The only problem I have when some people criticize either pg (TJ or Jose) is that they always bring up the other pg. When someone attempts to provide constructive criticism of TJ, they eventually bring Jose into the discussion. Vice versa, when someone is criticizing Jose, they bring TJ into the discussion as well.

For example, there has been a constant theme around these boards when Jose makes a mistake, some people feel the need to stir things up by saying, "if TJ made that mistake, this board would be all over him." If you're going to criticize Jose for the mistake, just criticize him then, because he deserves it. Nothing wrong with that. But it's wrong to drag TJ into the discussion. It just makes you look like you have some ulterior motives or agenda and sound bitter about something.

Anyways, I see and know what Reignman is talking about. As some of you know, I'm not a stats kind of guy. I look at Jose and what he does on the floor, and I definitely feel like he can do more to impact the game. Those opportunities to impact the game are there for him, he has just chosen to shy away from it. Don't know why....

[asif9t9]

Jose has had to change his game because teams know how to play him. Better to give him his jumpshot (which is a good one) than to give him his layup (which it almost guaranteed).

I noticed in the Cavs game.....CB was playing different, too. Andrea, too. CB was having a great game.....but I don't think he ever just drained a mid-range J. Which is his money shot.

Andrea lately, can't hit a three for his life, but is instead driving the ball.

Optimistically, Sam is letting his guys learn other ways to score, which they need to do.

[Franchise_411]

It seems to me that Jose is trying to protect his AST/TO stat ... Which would explain why he pulls up on 3-on-2 breaks ... While it is a nice stat, it's not indicative of how good a player you are ... Nash, Arenas, Kidd and Deron Williams are all among the TO leaders in the league ... I wouldn't even mention Calderon in the same breath as any of those guys ... And for anyone that would prefer to have Calderon as their starting PG over any of those 4 is either an idiotic homer or just doesn't have any grasp/understanding of the game ... Probably the thing that irritates me the most is how Leo Rautins is such a Jose advocate ... every game reminding everyone, that "he's averaging a double-double as a starter and leads in AST/TO ratio, that's phenomenal" ... Well if you're playing 40+ minutes a game and your stats don't go up, you're a real scrub ... the AST/TO can be explained by Jose driving the ball less and sticking to the swing-swing passes on the perimeter, thus not taking any chances ...

[Reignman]

The only problem I have when some people criticize either pg (TJ or Jose) is that they always bring up the other pg. When someone attempts to provide constructive criticism of TJ, they eventually bring Jose into the discussion. Vice versa, when someone is criticizing Jose, they bring TJ into the discussion as well.

For example, there has been a constant theme around these boards when Jose makes a mistake, some people feel the need to stir things up by saying, "if TJ made that mistake, this board would be all over him." If you're going to criticize Jose for the mistake, just criticize him then, because he deserves it. Nothing wrong with that. But it's wrong to drag TJ into the discussion. It just makes you look like you have some ulterior motives or agenda and sound bitter about something.

Anyways, I see and know what Reignman is talking about. As some of you know, I'm not a stats kind of guy. I look at Jose and what he does on the floor, and I definitely feel like he can do more to impact the game. Those opportunities to impact the game are there for him, he has just chosen to shy away from it. Don't know why....

This is what I'm talking about. I see some people come here and throw Jose's stats and use it like it's gospel, the fact that he has 13.5 / 10 means he must be doing everything he can right? Wrong.

Maybe some people see the game in a different way than I do, almost like they watch the game with their stat books in their lap and as soon as Jose hits his 13.5 / 10, they are satisfied with his performance.

It's really strange that I can see these open lanes, hesitations, dissapearing acts during streches, which clearly others are seeing to, but some people act like those opportunities don't exist because of this magical 13.5 / 10.

Jose's been very good, and if he starts taking advantage of these opportunities, dare I say it, he might be great. Because great players make a significant impact.

[chsh22]

Honestly, it bugs me more to see Dixon, Delfino, or Hump pull up for a 15-20 footer when Parker or Kapono are standing completely open in the corner.

Having a PG who can drive is great and all, but I'd rather have a PG who can hit the three and an SF who can drive and kick, and a centre who can show us some putbacks.

[xoxoxo]

Posters keep missing the point. The stats in Jose's case --particularly assists-- are meaningless. If he's playing most of the game, and he consistently dribbles the clock down so that the mate he passes to on the perim is basically forced to put up a shot, then of course he will get lots of assists and few turnovers (given that Raptors score any point at all). Unfortunately, the total number of team points will be low. If he passed up the court or earlier in the clock, or to the man that is cutting to the basket then he would have less assists and more turnovers but the Team would have a higher score. Once again, this is something that is amenable to coaching not necessarily to ability or minutes played. In fact if he passed quicker and earlier, he would expend less energy.

[xoxoxo]

Challenge: Count in tonights game how many times Jose fails to pass to the open man:
* on the fastbreaks;
* cutting to the basket
* on the pick & roll

[deknow]

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Maybe some people see the game in a different way than I do, almost like they watch the game with their stat books in their lap and as soon as Jose hits his 13.5 / 10, they are satisfied with his performance.

It's really strange that I can see these open lanes, hesitations, dissapearing acts during streches, which clearly others are seeing to, but some people act like those opportunities don't exist because of this magical 13.5 / 10.

I here you bro, they give him the lane and he stays on the perimeter and they play so tight on our wings they can't even get a decent shot up. The lane is so wide open these day and nobody is taking advantage of it. Jose is much better when he leaves an impact on the game. Those stats mean nothing to me either.

[Reignman]

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I here you bro, they give him the lane and he stays on the perimeter and they play so tight on our wings they can't even get a decent shot up. The lane is so wide open these day and nobody is taking advantage of it. Jose is much better when he leaves an impact on the game. Those stats mean nothing to me either.

I am glad to see many people have noticed the same thing. However, reading some of the posts in this thread make you question your vision.

Fortunately I have had the priviledge of playing basketball through High School and University, and I have had some great people teach me the game, so I would like to think I know a bit about ball.

However, I feel bad for the younger fans who may not play the game, but come to Realgm to understand / learn the game and have people feed them garbage using stats. These kids are looking at post counts and think that these so called "veteran" posters must know what they are talking about. Reading some of these posts, you would think that Jose is the next coming of Bob Cousy and that he is perfect, and the only reason the Raps lose games is because of everyone else. To be frank, Jose's stats are great, but the only stat that matters is Wins / Losses and Jose (being the starting pg) plays a big role in that.

[Death Knight]

Challenge: Count in tonights game how many times Jose fails to pass to the open man:
* on the fastbreaks;
* cutting to the basket
* on the pick & roll

What does passing to open players have anything to do with what is being discussed here? Calderon's passing is not a problem. As a matter of fact, the last two aren't even valid. Jose makes passes to open players whenever they are open. Unfortunately the Raptors don't cut to the basket alot, and the pick and roll he usually gives it up to his teammate that set the pick after he comes off of it (primarily Bosh). Haven't you realize how many times Bosh gets the ball foul line extended?

Calderon's problem is not making passes, but rather having more of an impact by being more aggressive and taking advantage of opportunities in order to put more pressure on defenses. By doing so, he can either score more or create more open space for his teammates by attracting defenses.

Saying that Calderon fails to make passes to open players.......You are completely missing the point.

[andyo]

Jose hasn't changed his game to the extent where I think you make a thread like this. What is really happening is

#1) Defenders are clearly taking away the drive from him this year. (But he is a lot more passive then last year)

#2) He's being showcased a lot more this year with Ford out so we jump to different conclusions faster.

#3) Teams are seeing how we run high screen and roll 99% of the time and are educating themselves better on how to defend it.

However, I do find him much more reluctant to run which I don't like but in all honesty, we virtually have 3 players that can create their own shots and finish well around the rim with consistency...Bosh Ford and Calderon. I don't see anyone else on our team with this capability as of now..... I think everyone on the team other then Bosh, Calderon and Ford are all offensive liabilities if anything.

Overall though, I really think Sam is beginning to reiterate his desire to have Calderon run more on the fast break and to be more aggressive down the stretch. Remember that Calderon is very young and he's only getting used to playing starter minutes...I have faith that this attacking mentality will be instilled soon enough, we just need to give him more patience....he's still very new to the NBA, and again, the fatigue that comes with being a starter takes time to be adjusted to. I think people need to lower their expectations for a "Backup PG".

[Death Knight]

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I am glad to see many people have noticed the same thing. However, reading some of the posts in this thread make you question your vision.

Fortunately I have had the priviledge of playing basketball through High School and University, and I have had some great people teach me the game, so I would like to think I know a bit about ball.

However, I feel bad for the younger fans who may not play the game, but come to Realgm to understand / learn the game and have people feed them garbage using stats. These kids are looking at post counts and think that these so called "veteran" posters must know what they are talking about. Reading some of these posts, you would think that Jose is the next coming of Bob Cousy and that he is perfect, and the only reason the Raps lose games is because of everyone else. To be frank, Jose's stats are great, but the only stat that matters is Wins / Losses and Jose (being the starting pg) plays a big role in that.

Playing helps alot interms of knowing the game. Another measuring stick would be how long people have been following basketball. I'd like to know how many people were following basketball before the Raptors even existed (pre 1995). I am one of them. Basketball has always been number 1 for me even before Raptors existed.

[TheDoctor]

I prefer for posters to let their insight shine through, rather than justify why theirs is superior to others, even if its justified.

[Reignman]

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What does passing to open players have anything to do with what is being discussed here? Calderon's passing is not a problem. As a matter of fact, the last two aren't even valid. Jose makes passes to open players whenever they are open. Unfortunately the Raptors don't cut to the basket alot, and the pick and roll he usually gives it up to his teammate that set the pick after he comes off of it (primarily Bosh). Haven't you realize how many times Bosh gets the ball foul line extended?

Calderon's problem is not making passes, but rather having more of an impact by being more aggressive and taking advantage of opportunities in order to put more pressure on defenses. By doing so, he can either score more or create more open space for his teammates by attracting defenses.

Saying that Calderon fails to make passes to open players.......You are completely missing the point.

That's what it's all about. I'm hoping Jose brings it tonight against the sixers. Let's give Bosh and Co. some breathing room and who better to do it than Jose.

[Trianoball]

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That's what it's all about. I'm hoping Jose brings it tonight against the sixers. Let's give Bosh and Co. some breathing room and who better to do it than Jose.

Using your impressive understanding of the game, could you please give a breakdown of how the other players on the roster could step up their play to help the team?

Or is Calderon the only player in dire need of your lengthy analysis?

[Reignman]

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Using your impressive understanding of the game, could you please give a breakdown of how the other players on the roster could step up their play to help the team?

Or is Calderon the only player in dire need of your lengthy analysis?

First, I only made a simple observation about opportunities that Jose has been turning down, so I posed a question to see what others thought. I don't think I made any kind of analysis. The question was simple "why has he changed his game"?

Second, I can see I irked you with that comment about your ball IQ, and the reason I did that is you completely missed the point of this thread, and your posts in this thread reflect that ignorance. If you had taken the time to read what I wrote, you would have noticed that I am actually giving Jose props on his ability / skill and believe he can play at another level, and that this team needs him to do that. You took it as an attack on Jose and started to shoot your mouth off.

Third, the reason I started this thread because our offence has been putrid and Jose is the starting point guard. I'm one of those people that believes the pg has a huge influence on how the offence runs. You see, once Jose starts being more aggressive and opportunistic, it's going to open up things for the other players. AP will get some open shots, Moon will get the ball closer to the net, CB4 won't have to worry about the instant double all the time, etc, etc. It wouldn't make sense for me to start a thread about anyone else when I see that Jose can make a difference, and to be honest every other Raptor has got his fair share of threads.

If you feel that that other players can do things differently (I'm sure they can) to help our team win more games, please go ahead and start a thread and I'll gladly chime in with my thoughts. Sound good?

Hey, it's almost game time!!! Go Raps Go!!!