With how much we improved our wing depth this year, as well as Hump's improved play, there hasn't been much attention paid to one of the major underlying causes behind our struggles this year.
Guys like Garbajosa, Parker and Rasho have all taken a step back in their roles and effectiveness. For reasons that vary from injury to age and beyond, those players have taken a back seat to others.
That's not always a good thing. Even if it can seem like it at the time because of the novelty of the new players performing, or if it's brought on out of necessity, the NBA is about the aggregate talent and effectiveness of the players on the floor.
The players that have taken a back seat were all arguably more significant pieces for us than the guys that have replaced them, when they were playing at their best last season.
There's an organic process that takes place on a roster of turnover, with the young replacing the old, but the window that we've had to capitalize on our veteran's seems to have been awful small in retrospect.
Internal roster turnover a big factor for the Raps
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Internal roster turnover a big factor for the Raps
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roy_jones_calderon
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dagger
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Wouldn't "Aging vets a big factor in Raps's .500 season" have been a better headline. All of the guys you name are on short contracts. All will be readily tradable this summer. This is not a case of re-signing Mike James and have him immediately going into the tank.
RJC, I think you've been a bit of a drama queen the past few days. Chill.
RJC, I think you've been a bit of a drama queen the past few days. Chill.
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roy_jones_calderon
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I can't believe I lost another response.
dagger, all this is, is an a possible explanation that doesn't get a lot of attention for some of the differences between the production we're seeing this year vs. last.
It's not an indictment of their contracts, or anything like that- just an observation that AP, Garbo, and Rasho were all starters who played at a much higher level last season...one short year ago.
dagger, all this is, is an a possible explanation that doesn't get a lot of attention for some of the differences between the production we're seeing this year vs. last.
It's not an indictment of their contracts, or anything like that- just an observation that AP, Garbo, and Rasho were all starters who played at a much higher level last season...one short year ago.
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dagger
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WD-40 wrote:As much as Garbo's trigger finger irked me at times, I really miss him. I was hoping he would improve his shot like Jose did. Him going down was a huge blow. sad really. Hopefully he comes back and plays good.
Well, he was making it around practice today on crutches, wearing a practice jersey, so he's raring to go next month when he's allowed to begin weight-bearing work.
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Komodo
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It's true though. Parker is getting similar burn, but his overall game has taken a slight step back from last season, mostly on defence. Garbajosa was our glue guy and now he's not even playing - Moon and Kapono are getting his minutes. And Rasho's role is rapidly dwindling as Bargnani and Hump develop.
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1982
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Garbo's loss... the rest it's the coaching. i don't agree with the way he uses parker. parker showed last year that he is definitely a pro and he knows what to do at key moments. that kind of maturity has been lacking from our team this year.
also, off the top of my head, i'd say we are now averaging about 75 fg's a game. some of that has to do with jose, but we also haven't been forcing turnovers as much as we used to. i'm not sure what's going through the smitch's head but we've really moved away from playing the type of game that our team is built for. hence the backseat. it's less a matter of the turnover as it is the new gameplan. neither moon nor delfino should be getting the amount of minutes they've been getting.
also, off the top of my head, i'd say we are now averaging about 75 fg's a game. some of that has to do with jose, but we also haven't been forcing turnovers as much as we used to. i'm not sure what's going through the smitch's head but we've really moved away from playing the type of game that our team is built for. hence the backseat. it's less a matter of the turnover as it is the new gameplan. neither moon nor delfino should be getting the amount of minutes they've been getting.
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MacDaddy
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emfive
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MacDaddy wrote:Apparently Parker has had a lingering groin-pull that was affecting him a bit through most of December.
Our problems have more to do with TJ Ford being out than Garbajosa being MIA or Parker and Rasho playing a a couple fewer mpg.
And if TJ is unable to get back to peak form there is going to be some serious soul searching (involving moves) by BC after this season.
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James699
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MacDaddy wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Are you being serious?
nah I m just playing. I think the guys that need to go are:
- Kapono (Deadly Shooter- Somehow another freeagent failure for us)
- Graham (No longer needed Moon is here!)
- Rasho (Old and Slow)
- Hump (Get something for him because he has value)
- Parker (Old)
- Delfino (Keep but dont resign)
- Martin (No Comment)
That would be a great start to get something back for these guys. Quite frankly our system is being exposed. The system only works perfcectly with two good PG. That means that our bench isn't really deep. It is because of Calderon the bench becomes deep because of the plays he creates.
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C Court
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I agree that Parker is step slower and that Garbo's absence has had an effect. I also believe that the TJ injury has had an enormous impact on our recent poor play.
But I also don't think that all the pieces are meshing the way they should. New guys like Kapono, Delfino and Moon are all very good additions. However, the old does not seem to be meshing with the new the way they should. I think a tweak of the chemistry would help.
On the other hand, I'm not prepared to push the panic button. Bryan has proven that even if he's made a mistake, he's prepared to take decisive action to fix it. Colangelo does not like losing.
But I also don't think that all the pieces are meshing the way they should. New guys like Kapono, Delfino and Moon are all very good additions. However, the old does not seem to be meshing with the new the way they should. I think a tweak of the chemistry would help.
On the other hand, I'm not prepared to push the panic button. Bryan has proven that even if he's made a mistake, he's prepared to take decisive action to fix it. Colangelo does not like losing.
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roy_jones_calderon
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It's an organic process, and it's not a zero sum game- it's arguable whether Garbo was more valuable than present-day Hump, or whether the wing depth that we've added doesn't off-set Parker's decreased game.
That being said, Parker was the glue for us last year, IMO. He was the guy that solidified the starting line-up and was a strong two-way player. He has dropped off considerably.
Garbo's loss hurts because of the stability he brought to the team defense. Rasho has gone from starting to the back of the bench, and it's not as though Bargs has been setting the world on fire in his place, albeit necessary as a process.
Believe me, I'm not discounting TJ's absense, or the effect of that absense. If anything I'm apt to overstate it.
That being said, Parker was the glue for us last year, IMO. He was the guy that solidified the starting line-up and was a strong two-way player. He has dropped off considerably.
Garbo's loss hurts because of the stability he brought to the team defense. Rasho has gone from starting to the back of the bench, and it's not as though Bargs has been setting the world on fire in his place, albeit necessary as a process.
Believe me, I'm not discounting TJ's absense, or the effect of that absense. If anything I'm apt to overstate it.
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tecumseh18
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WD-40 wrote:As much as Garbo's trigger finger irked me at times, I really miss him. I was hoping he would improve his shot like Jose did.
In his second last game before he went down in Boston last year, against Denver, he had a ridiculous amount of points in the first half. OK, he was always a streak shooter, but at the time I was hoping he had turned a corner that night. We'll never know what might have been.
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reck0n3r
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It just seems like having too many options, and the loss of garbo (and TJ), has contributed to things going a little out of whack. I think our team last year had a really great equilibrium.
Players also playing well in spurts (ie: moon, hump) but then declining on other days, doesn't help either. We don't know what to expect from them. Moon is a rookie, who was known to have motivation problems for the most part of his career, and hump is also a young player who is still trying to get things together. You don't get that kind of erratic play from some of the more experienced players like garbo or parker.
Also, a lot of the teams last year were quite handicapped with having main players injured for a large majority of the time, whereas this year not as many teams (if any?) are decimated by injuries. Teams like atlanta and portland are doing much better than expected. I think sam flip/flopping with the starting lineup definitely hasn't helped either.
Players also playing well in spurts (ie: moon, hump) but then declining on other days, doesn't help either. We don't know what to expect from them. Moon is a rookie, who was known to have motivation problems for the most part of his career, and hump is also a young player who is still trying to get things together. You don't get that kind of erratic play from some of the more experienced players like garbo or parker.
Also, a lot of the teams last year were quite handicapped with having main players injured for a large majority of the time, whereas this year not as many teams (if any?) are decimated by injuries. Teams like atlanta and portland are doing much better than expected. I think sam flip/flopping with the starting lineup definitely hasn't helped either.
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S.W.A.N
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I think if you really wanna analyis why we are not playing at the same level as we were mid season its a combination of factors, and yes age is one of them. In my opinion the order of importance is as follows...
1) TJ.... I almost miss the endless tJ vs jose debates. Regardless of who truly is the better player the fact remains that we were blessed to have 48 mins of quality pg play almost every night. Sure calderon has done well statistically with extra minutes but the team is better off with the two of them sharing the minutes.
2) Garbs... I like moon and think his athletism shows us where we are lacking but I think that we are a better team when we play a bigger line up with Garbs at the three. I really would of liked to see how a healthy Garbs and Moon would of battled for the starting 3 spot.
3) Bargs.. I love bargs and really do believe he can be the long term answer at the 5 spot but this year he has not been a positive factor in many games. I think his overall development as a post player is progressing nicely but for the win now crowd that is not an acceptable answer.
4) Parker.. A huge part of our success last year was due to parker, and I am a little suprised that he is not playing at the same level. Yes with age comes a natural decline but I was one of those who believed that a less rigourous euro schedule would add a few years to his peak level before the decline. Injuries may have more to due with his decline than we are informed off....
5) Bosh.. He is still our best player but he shouldn't be getting a free ride, I thing he needs to attack the hoop every single time down the floor. He may be the biggest victim of our teams jump shooting tendencies.
6) Unrealist expectations.. We made huge strides last season, and now we are at the point were despite being at .500 with all of the aforementioned issues we are dissappointed are wanting to make changes.
Personally I think that we have to keep in mind that we really do have some good young talent, not many teams beat the spurs at home, and that while winning is always importat player development is a huge part of our long term asperations of a championship level team.
This year we have added Moon and Delfino, and while neither will ever be a star they have added to our depth and are quality nba players. Humps has developed into a solid rotation option and Calderon continues to improve.
What it really boils down to is that I truly believe injury free we would be the 3rd best team in the east right now and thats not bad at all...
1) TJ.... I almost miss the endless tJ vs jose debates. Regardless of who truly is the better player the fact remains that we were blessed to have 48 mins of quality pg play almost every night. Sure calderon has done well statistically with extra minutes but the team is better off with the two of them sharing the minutes.
2) Garbs... I like moon and think his athletism shows us where we are lacking but I think that we are a better team when we play a bigger line up with Garbs at the three. I really would of liked to see how a healthy Garbs and Moon would of battled for the starting 3 spot.
3) Bargs.. I love bargs and really do believe he can be the long term answer at the 5 spot but this year he has not been a positive factor in many games. I think his overall development as a post player is progressing nicely but for the win now crowd that is not an acceptable answer.
4) Parker.. A huge part of our success last year was due to parker, and I am a little suprised that he is not playing at the same level. Yes with age comes a natural decline but I was one of those who believed that a less rigourous euro schedule would add a few years to his peak level before the decline. Injuries may have more to due with his decline than we are informed off....
5) Bosh.. He is still our best player but he shouldn't be getting a free ride, I thing he needs to attack the hoop every single time down the floor. He may be the biggest victim of our teams jump shooting tendencies.
6) Unrealist expectations.. We made huge strides last season, and now we are at the point were despite being at .500 with all of the aforementioned issues we are dissappointed are wanting to make changes.
Personally I think that we have to keep in mind that we really do have some good young talent, not many teams beat the spurs at home, and that while winning is always importat player development is a huge part of our long term asperations of a championship level team.
This year we have added Moon and Delfino, and while neither will ever be a star they have added to our depth and are quality nba players. Humps has developed into a solid rotation option and Calderon continues to improve.
What it really boils down to is that I truly believe injury free we would be the 3rd best team in the east right now and thats not bad at all...