Sam has a tough job re: Bargnani

[Charlie_S]

read more here

All players are not created equal. Sam, rightfully so, is going to let Bargnani play through more mistakes than Humphries or Graham because Bargnani has a much greater role in the future of the team and he needs to learn. And you learn by playing.

But, and this is a huge, but, it took all of four minutes in Friday

[Charlie_S]

read more here

All players are not created equal. Sam, rightfully so, is going to let Bargnani play through more mistakes than Humphries or Graham because Bargnani has a much greater role in the future of the team and he needs to learn. And you learn by playing.

But, and this is a huge, but, it took all of four minutes in Friday

[whoknows]

Man, you got it in for Bargs...

As you know AB ceiling & IQ is a lot higher than Humps & Joey together.

So it is worth IMO to keep Bargs in while Sam together with CB4 (& other players) can give AB the "proper feedback". This way, AB will have a chance to learn & prove himself after making a mistake.

I don't believe pulling him out makes him better.
You only pull out a player who is not willing/capable to learn from his mistakes.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

more tidbits from Smith

T.J. Ford is off to the Cleveland Clinic this week to have another respected doctor take another look at his spine, neck and head.

Here

[Platapie]

Double standards?

SS, seriously?

All players are not created equal. Sam, rightfully so, is going to let Bargnani play through more mistakes than Humphries or Graham because Bargnani has a much greater role in the future of the team and he needs to learn. And you learn by playing.

[Turnpikebandit]

Sam, rightfully so, is going to let Bargnani play through more mistakes than Humphries or Graham because Bargnani has a much greater role in the future of the team and he needs to learn.

So you're saying you disagree with this assertion from Smith ss?

[supersub15]

Double standards?

SS, seriously?

All players are not created equal. Sam, rightfully so, is going to let Bargnani play through more mistakes than Humphries or Graham because Bargnani has a much greater role in the future of the team and he needs to learn. And you learn by playing.

I said I understand Sam's tough job. I just don't agree with the "treat him differently" attitude.

[theonlyeastcoastrapsfan]

it is a double standard, kind of. If we thought hump had the potential to warrant a more significant investment, i suppose he would get the same treatment. Ford had along leash when it came to mistakes, despite sharing minutes as well. I think Smitch is mindful however to send a message to Andrea, that despite numerous chances his mistakes are still noticed and will have some consequence. And I would still like us to go to him in the fourth, I'd like to know how clutch he can be. And I think it would do wonders for him to know that the coach, not just the gm and asst. gm have faith in his contributions.

[TribeZulu]

I love Humps hussle, but I think a lot of guys on this board over-rate how well he's really doing.

Let's not overlook that he's a -25 on the season. Per minute Hump and Graham probably have the worst +/- on the team. Now +/- isn't the end-all-and-be-all. However, it does say something if your last on the team.

Bargs has played much better than Graham or Hump both this and last season. Bargs has much more potential. Like it or not, we need to turn a blind eye with him much more than the other prospects on the team.

[Platapie]

Ok, so we're not debating if there are double standards, which the article clearly states there is, but we're discussing whether there should be double standards?

[supersub15]

Ok, so we're not debating if there are double standards, which the article clearly states there is, but we're discussing whether there should be double standards?

Yes.

[whoknows]

-= original quote snipped =-



I said I understand Sam's tough job. I just don't agree with the "treat him differently" attitude.

in other words AB has the value/potential as Hump or Joey???

[Turnpikebandit]

Cutting to the chase here ss, you feel that Bargnani should have been demoted and lost minutes to Humphries instead of being reinserted into the starting 5?

[I_Like_Dirt]

That isn't what supersub said at all, whoknows. Double standards exist in the NBA usually because one player is outright better than the others and comes with positive impacts that other players don't even if he makes the odd mistake. It isn't value/potential that supersub is getting at (although I think Humphries has quite a bit of potential and isn't being given much room to expand his game at all while Bargnani is given everything) but what the players do on the court.

The big worry about using blatant double standards is that it often breeds bad habits, and in Bargnani's case I think it's pretty clear that there are a lot of bad habits there that aren't being corrected by letting him play through his mistakes- so much so that I've seen a bit of a shorter leash on him recently, even with the Raptors only really using him, Bosh and Humphries as bigs and being forced to play small ball when they yank him.

I also think people are really splitting hairs when they suggest that Bargnani has a higher bball IQ than a guy like Humphries. He's got more potential, but it's precisely his IQ that is the problem. He loses focus on defense and can only really pay attention to one thing at a time, he doesn't like to be the first man back on defense and will often wait up for a teammate if he feels he's going to have to deal with more than one player at once, he takes bad shots and stops the ball movement on offense just like Humphries does only people here don't complain nearly as much because they want to see him score and he doesn't even bother trying to rebound. Those are the marks of a low bball IQ player, not a high one. I think he understands the value of a 3-pointer and of opening it up as a shot that can be made with regularity, but Antoine Walker understood that, too, and even he tried to rebound, pass and played much better defense.

Geez, another post where I feel it looks as though I'm being too hard on Bargs. I think they just tend to slip out when I see people defending him and suggesting that (a) his play is anything but atrocious at the moment, (b) he's miraculously different than every other NBA player in history, and/or (c) they see development and not regression in his play of late. I still believe in the kid, up to a point, but there's no way to slice it other than this season being a massive disappointment from him. He's been given more leeway and than any prospect I've ever seen including unearned PT (cleared for him by skillful roster management, thankfully, rather than benching outright more deserving players) and a specified role to suit his game so that he doesn't have to do much out there he doesn't want to/can't that the rest of the team has to play around.

[supersub15]

Cutting to the chase here ss, you feel that Bargnani should have been demoted and lost minutes to Humphries instead of being reinserted into the starting 5?

Not at all. He should remain in the starting lineup. But I feel that rewarding him with PT despite his unininspired play while Hump is being punished for one mistake is not a proper way to build a TEAM.

Bargnani has NOT earned the right to play more (despite his many mistakes). Bosh has, TJ has, Calderon has.

[vulture]

Bargs has been given every opportunity. He was handed the starting eventhough, he was the most unproductive player on the team.
How is that fair to everyone else on the team?

[Hephaestus114]

As you know AB ceiling & IQ is a lot higher than Humps & Joey together.

I do not agree with this assessment. Bargs is blessed with being 7 feet tall and our only current hope as a long term solution at 5. Graham is cursed with playing a position for which we have a multitude of alternatives. Otherwise, they make the same dumb mistakes over and over again.

I find it appalling that Bargs apologists point to his occasional 20+ point nights as evidence that he's a superstar in the making, but (as an example) point to Graham's occasional 20 point nights from last year as evidence that he's brainless and unable to harness his physical gifts into consistent results. The only consistent parts to Bargs' game are:
1) his inability to rebound.
2) his failure to recognize defensive rotations.

In fact, one can make a good argument that Graham showed more evidence of consistent solid play in his year two vs. Bargs' year 2 (see final month of season). Unfortunately for Graham his mistakes are easily erased by using AP, Kapono, Delfino and now Moon in his place. Bargs' position can only be filled by Rasho. Sam may not be able to teach the idiot that is Bustnani, but he can't teach height either.

[whoknows]

The way I see it, is that if you really believe that someone can be a great player, you let him play through his mistakes.
Yes, he should be made aware when he's making mistakes, but since he is still adjusting to NBA, pulling him out will not work.
Someone needs to explain to him not only what went wrong but also what he needs to do next time to fix it.
It is close to babysitting but that is part of coaching and teammates help.

I love Hump`s hustle and wish Joey takes the next step soon. However, Bargs got to be #1 pick for a reason and he did showed us flashes of what he can be.
Everybody agrees that it takes longer for a big to develop and centre is probably one of the hardest roles to learn.
I do feel that he looks lost many times on the floor when he is not sure if he should help or just stay with his man. This puts him many times out of position to rebound, he is obviously in the learning process of what his new centre role should be.

Sam learned the hard way but I`m afraid Bargs is made from a different mold. He first needs to understand how to play his role to progress since they play quite different the centre position in Europe. Look at Dirk, he is by no mean an NBA typical centre although his size should warrant it...is that a bad thing...

I say cut him slack this year - since we`re not yet ready to go further than next year. Until TJ is back we should be lucky to float around 500.
We need Bargs to either prove that he can be part of the future or let BC know to look elsewhere. Can not have the possible team future learning at the end of the bench.

[ruckus]

Of course there are double standards. There has to be. Otherwise, there wouldn't be a rookie wage scale. You pay and play the player who you feel is going to provide a greater return in the future.

Is it unfair to Hump? Hells yeah it is. But, that's the way of the world.

[WD-40]

I agree with the 'treat him slightly different' attitude. He is our Number 1 pick. We need him to develop in order to get something out of our only first pick. It is paramount. We many never get a first pick again. ; )

But I like that Sam pulls him. As an outsider it's frustrating to watch. But I trust Sam and his development skills. I don't want to watch Bargs always playing bad D and poor rebounding. Whether he's a PF or Center now's the time to work on crucial fundamentals. Even if the improvement seems rather underwhelming, its' still the right direction. I think if Bargs can't deal with tough love that's sad on his part.

Sam: tough love, attempts to teach fundamentals, deal with some f-ups

Bargs: deals with tough love, attempts to learn fundamentals, try not to f-up so much

Fans: wait and see, criticize but try not to be so obnoxious and limit end of the world BS

someone: said in the trade for Dally thread about Dally for Bargs. Bargs has reached his potential he wont get better. blblalbalb But, Dally, who I believe is a couple of years older, will get better. hahaha

Whether Bargs is worthy the pick is suspect. But anyone who can't see that he is raw, even somewhat shockingly, and has potential to improve exponentially is a FOOL.

He gets compared to KVH, and I hate that comparison. But KVH was good when he came into the league. "The great white hope". he averaged 19.7 ,21.8 ,19.2 ,17.0 his first 4 seasons. And he rebounded decent. Why don't players like him or Coleman ever take it to the next level? Can Bargs even take it to their levels? I don't know: play him.

End of rant: off to get coffee.