Play Bargnani at the 3?

[Spinmang]

Last year, Bargs got abit of time at the 3 spot when we went to go big... this year I dont think we've see that.

Now before you I get jumped on with comments that Bargs cant defend an athletic 3... consider this.... what 3 is going to defend Bargs?

It would be a nightmare for opposing teams if the Raps fielded a Bosh, Bargs, (rasho/hump) lineup at some point during the game. Last year they did this minus Rasho and Hump, but with Garbo.

I think Bargs in all honesty has played decent defense this year. Yes, his rotations can be disgusting at times, but his on the ball defense on bigs has been pretty solid. He's obviously ridiculously long and possesses pretty good footspeed. If he's going to be a rebounding liability, why not have him stepping away from the hoop and getting two guy down low that arent?

Furthermore, he runs the floor like a man-imal and does pretty well in transition. Playing the three-spot he could not have to pretend to be trying to rebound and get down the floor as fast as possible.



Yes, I know this is crazy, and highly unlikely. But during a few small spurts in the game I think it could be useful.

Your thoughts?

[Spinmang]

As well, when they did go big last year... maybe it was Garbo 3, Bargs 4, Bosh 5.

... meh.

[bakafool]

Bargs doesn't have much of a post up game to seriously impact a game and make mismatches in the post matter.

Bargs is a great standstill shooter when he's squared up and he's open. But he's not as good when the defender closes in on him.

Bargs already plays like a 3 on offense, since he camps out near the 3 point line and shoots there or from long midrange or drives from far out. Having a big guy guard him at the top of the key is more advantageous to him since he is a much quicker player.

Bargs is actually more suited to guard centers who post up. His post up defense is good.

Rebounding is alreadya deficiency of Bargs. Making him play like a 3 will further hurt his rebounding.

[Raptorsrock]

Playing Bargs at SF could work if we had an imposing defensive minded C. It would provide another line of defence for the inevitable times when Bargs gets beaten off the bounce. I'm not sure we Rasho or Hump fits that description. It would also put Bosh at risk of foul trouble.

At this point I think it might be easier to teach Bargs how to play good positional defense to compensate for his lack of quickness at the SF position then it is teaching him how to rebound

So I personally don't think you're idea is crazy(although Im sure some people will). It's looking more like we maybe should develop Bargs to become a Rashard Lewis type player and abandon this C experiment.

[alfie123]

play bargs on the bench, this guy is a career project. Its not the skill thats dogging his development its his hustle and ambition. You cant teach that, he doesnt have it...i am Italian and I was a huge supporter of this pick.

Its sad to say, but hes up there with the likes of VC in the sense that dude's got a ton of skill but refuses to muck it up or really work on his game.

[bakafool]

Defensively, I have no problem with Bargs in the post. He's proven that he can guard players in the post. His problems are boxing out and his tendency to camp out near the 3 point line. Boxing out is mostly on him, that's his problem. But on offense, we're running too many high screens with him. Problem is that he doesn't roll, but instead pops all the time. Rasho usually rolls to the rim, so he gets more inside opportunities. Bargs pops and will either shoot the 3 or pump fake and drive or pump fake and take the midrange jumper (which he actually isn't very good at). So we need him to roll to the basket more so that he receives the pass inside. Or perhaps Sam should run more plays for him so that he ends up inside the 3 point line but is facing up. Or if he receives a post pass, he should stop doing that stupid rushed turnaround/faceup jumper, but calmly face up and do a jab fake and rise for a jumper or drive to the hoop.

[ruckus]

I don't think thats gonna happen. The Raps are hell-bent on turning Bargs into a real C. I think moving him to SF is just gonna confuse him even more. They're trying to move him away from his SF/SG-like habits (loafing around the 3, just boxing out your man and not going hard for the rebound, etc.).

Plus, the way he's playing right now, it would be better for the opposing team if they put another SF to guard Bargs. All the SF has to do is defend Bargs' 3-pter. The odds are in the defender's favour. If he shuts down Bargs' shot and Bargs' decides to drive, there's a 50/50 chance he'll be called for the travel. If the travel isn't called, Bargs is usually far enough from the basket when he starts his drive that it gives time for the help defense to get into position. So then, that turns into either 1) a possible charge or 2) an out of control shot.

Ultimately, I think playing Bargs at SF would do more harm then good in the long run.

[flipside21]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Dirk play a good chunk of his first few seasons at the 3 before he established himself as a premier?

Eventually they moved him to the 5 under Nelson before finally landing him at the 4?

Am I wrong?

[Spinmang]

The comment about comparing Bargs to VC is flat out stupid.

VC brought it... minus a half a season for the raps...

His all star status is an indicator of such.

Dont get me wrong, hes a dickbag... but to say BArgnani and him are the same is just wrong.


I dont know if for Bargs it is simply a lack of effort. Last year he looked special... this year... not so much. There are glimpses of that greatness but not as prevalent. At this point, I think his injuries and quite simply the pressure is to account for his struggles. Hes young, has the weight of a country on his shoulders, and a fan base that tears him up ... over... and over... and over.

Same thing is happening to him as Hoffa....

[alfie123]

The comment about comparing Bargs to VC is flat out stupid.

VC brought it... minus a half a season for the raps...

His all star status is an indicator of such.

Dont get me wrong, hes a dickbag... but to say BArgnani and him are the same is just wrong.


I dont know if for Bargs it is simply a lack of effort. Last year he looked special... this year... not so much. There are glimpses of that greatness but not as prevalent. At this point, I think his injuries and quite simply the pressure is to account for his struggles. Hes young, has the weight of a country on his shoulders, and a fan base that tears him up ... over... and over... and over.

Same thing is happening to him as Hoffa....

Oh yeah comparing him to VC is much more stupid than comparing him to Hoffa.

A guy who didnt even deserve to be drafted compared to a number 1 pick with extreme potential.

I compared him to VC in the way that he will never truly maximize his potential, dont put words in my mouth.

[The_Hater]

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but didn't Dirk play a good chunk of his first few seasons at the 3 before he established himself as a premier?

Eventually they moved him to the 5 under Nelson before finally landing him at the 4?

Am I wrong?

Other than maybe the odd lineup, Dirk was never a 3.

There are 2 huge problems with playing Bargs at the 3.

First, although he has a height advantage he doesn't have the inside/post game to take advantage of smaller players. He's a perimeter player that takes advantage of slower bigs, not the reverse. This also hinders him in that aspect because opposing SF's won't have as much difficultly guarding him 25 feet from the hoop.

Second, although he move his feet well and defends well against opposing big men, I think that he'd get exposed badly against the Lebron's, Melo's and

I think that there's only one solution in all this and that is Bargs needs to improve his big man skills. Improve his rebounding. Improve his post skills. Get tougher and play more like a 7-footer. If he becomes adequete in those areas, suddenly he becomes a match-up nightmare for opposing bigs.

[bongmarley]

What difference would this make. On offense he is already camped outside the three point line so wouldn't moving him to SF just put him in the exact same position he is now?

[Spinmang]

We've seen Carters potential... he led the Raps on two great playoff runs and his been a mainstay star in this league.



If you are stupid enough to try and compare Bargs to that this early... I don't even know what to say.



With carter its not a matter of saying he will never live up to his potential. He has. ITs the fact he refuses to stay at that level that pisses people off.

[Raptorsrock]

The other thing to consider with this move is that the best strategy to negate Bargs's offense that we've seen so far in his career is to stick a wing player on him that gets right up in his grill. It's makes it harder for Bargs to get his shot off and Bargs doesn't have the quickness advantage to drive on the player like he has over other big man.

[Hendrix]

What do you mean what 3 could defend him? Easiest way to defend him is with an athletic, quicker smaller forward. IT's not like he's going to take advantage of his size and back the smaller player down in the post effectivly. Gaurding him with a 3 takes away from him putting it on the floor. Basically just makes him a shooter.

I don't know why people keep sugesting this. It makes no sense offensivly, or defensivly.

[Musashi]

What difference would this make. On offense he is already camped outside the three point line so wouldn't moving him to SF just put him in the exact same position he is now?

Yes which means Humps would sit on the three point line and start jacking threes in place of Bargs!

[torsport]

I liked Bargs at the 3.

If you look at his clips when he was playing in Europe he has quickness, lift, mobility and could play the 3.

I think he's just put on too much weight (trying to fit into the 5). He doesn't have the lift, speed or mobility to play the 3 anymore.

[CrookedJ]

On D hes better off guarding a C than a SF.

And on offence, I think he is much more efective ( even down low) against a big man, than against a SF. Usually things don't go well when he posts up a smaller guy. He gets too physical and gets called for the foul.

It must be hard for him to understand, it is for me. Why he can get shoved out of the way ( happens all the time) when he is attempting to rebound, but when he gets physical even with the ball he often gets called for a foul. Maybe he uses he hands too mich?

[Yuri Vaultin]

I liked Bargs at the 3.

If you look at his clips when he was playing in Europe he has quickness, lift, mobility and could play the 3.

I think he's just put on too much weight (trying to fit into the 5). He doesn't have the lift, speed or mobility to play the 3 anymore.

When at the three in Europe I don't think he had to deal with even a fraction of the athleticism he'll see on a nightly basis in the NBA.

[torsport]

-= original quote snipped =-



When at the three in Europe I don't think he had to deal with even a fraction of the athleticism he'll see on a nightly basis in the NBA.

I wouldn't underestimate Europe talent. THere's a lot of athletes over there. He looked could dunking on Bosh when Tel Aviv beat the Raps in the pre-season too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuBVnY0r...re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHC-xir...re=related