When Andrea gets 30+ mins...

[Komodo]

When Bargs avoids getting into early foul trouble his numbers are exactly what many here predicted over the summer, ie- close to what Dirk averaged in his second season.

PPG-17
RPG-5
FG%-46%
3p%-43%
BPG-0.5

Part of the foul-prone label can be attributed to learning to play the center position on the fly this season. He's always been a small foward, dating back to his Benetton days, and as we can see the growing pains are plainly visible.

It's an adjustment process and I am prepared to give him more time. I think we will see a much more refined Bargs next season, one who is more equipped to man the 5 than the one we see now.

[Quiet-Storm]

I agree with you but still.

[kleatius_01]

You're assuming that he automatically gets 30+ mins when he avoids foul trouble. Many times he doesn't get the mins because he's having a sucky game.

[hstang]

In any way you put it, he's not going to be a Dirk. He's going to be a bust and a major disappointment. I can only hope that he'll pull together a good stretch of games so his trading value increases so we can ship him for a couple of good prospects.

[ponder276]

a) The Smitch only leaves him out there for 30+ minutes/game when he's playing well, so this is hardly an unbiased analysis.
b) With that being said, I too am willing to give Bargs more time, and think he will develop (eventually) into a reasonable (but not great) 5. Trading him now while his value is low would just be dumb, and making him ride the pine and therefore not develop would be equally dumb.

[dacrusha]

Thing is, he gets 30 minutes when he plays well.

When he doesn't, he tends to get yanked off the court.

I'm of the opinion that he should be allowed to make mistakes without worrying about being subbed off, but then again, if you make this exception for him, then you have to make the same exception for any other player who is playing below his level.

[reptar15]

now i'm not comparing bargnani's skills to hoffa's

but this was the exact same situation smitch put hoffa in

- started hoffa
- played him a few minutes
- benched him for the rest of the game if he picked up quick fouls or was struggling

[Pchu]

now i'm not comparing bargnani's skills to hoffa's

but this was the exact same situation smitch put hoffa in

- started hoffa
- played him a few minutes
- benched him for the rest of the game if he picked up quick fouls or was struggling

Oh God, another blame mitchell for Hoffa post. I thought I will never see this again.

When someone is not playing well, then he has to be yanked. I think Mitchell has been amazingly patient and fair to Bargnani (and Hoffa for that matter). He shouldn't play Bargnani if he is sucking. A coach's job is to win games.

[reptar15]

-= original quote snipped =-



Oh God, another blame mitchell for Hoffa post. I thought I will never see this again.

When someone is not playing well, then he has to be yanked. I think Mitchell has been amazingly patient and fair to Bargnani (and Hoffa for that matter). He shouldn't play Bargnani if he is sucking. A coach's job is to win games.

i'm not blaming smitch for hoffa and as i clearly stated they are not similar players.

i said they are in similiar situations

[Koosh]

I've seen Moon play through bad stretches but he never gets taken out.

[reptar15]

I've seen Moon play through bad stretches but he never gets taken out.

moon takes every freaking shot that comes to him
but mitchell loves the guy

[dacrusha]

-= original quote snipped =-



Oh God, another blame mitchell for Hoffa post. I thought I will never see this again.

When someone is not playing well, then he has to be yanked. I think Mitchell has been amazingly patient and fair to Bargnani (and Hoffa for that matter). He shouldn't play Bargnani if he is sucking. A coach's job is to win games.

I just watched the first 6 minutes of yesterday's game and I have to say, the refs destroyed Bargs game right from the beginning.

Bargs was 2/3 for 4 points and 1 rebound (including a driving dunk), forced Przybilla out of the game due to foul trouble and boxed out nicely... but two absolutely terrible calls by the refs (one where Roy closelined Bargs, but somehow, Bargs got the foul) forced Sam to send him to the bench.

[G-UNIT]

-= original quote snipped =-
moon takes every freaking shot that comes to him
but mitchell loves the guy

maybe cuz he plays d, rebounds and blocks shots?
he only shoots cuz the other team leaves him open all the time.

[hoop_head]

Thing is, he gets 30 minutes when he plays well.

When he doesn't, he tends to get yanked off the court.

I'm of the opinion that he should be allowed to make mistakes without worrying about being subbed off, but then again, if you make this exception for him, then you have to make the same exception for any other player who is playing below his level.

I agree with you. He's learning to play C, and yanking him doesn't improve his development (or his mental state). I don't think the Raptors players would be upset if Andrea received a little bonus time, even if he's not playing well. He's our #1 pick, and small allowances in playing time should be made for him to further develop his game.

[Pchu]

I've seen Moon play through bad stretches but he never gets taken out.

Actually, that's not true. Moon played horribly in the west coast trip, and he didn't get much playing time because of it.

He starts to play better after the New Orleans game, and hence the minutes.

[vulture]

And the excuses keep coming.

[Pchu]

-= original quote snipped =-



I agree with you. He's learning to play C, and yanking him doesn't improve his development (or his mental state). I don't think the Raptors players would be upset if Andrea received a little bonus time, even if he's not playing well. He's our #1 pick, and small allowances in playing time should be made for him to further develop his game.

So you are willing to lose a game or more even if his plays cost the team a win. And if other players can contribute more, wouldn't it be fair for them to sit while watching Andrea is struggling?

[Maritimer]

As a few have pointed out, I'd be inclined to say that you've got cause and effect reversed.

[dont_h8_n8]

Would he get fewer fouls defending the PF and SF positions?

I actually prefer him defending centers, and I think he would accrue just as many if not more against forwards. Aren't his fouls due more to lapses in judgment rather than learning a new position?

[Koosh]

You realize that the doubters are the same people who bitched about Jose last season? Or bitched about Bosh early on when he "wasn't leader material". I'm sick of all this f*cking whining from so-called fans who can't see the game for what it is. Dirk struggled with fouls early on too but he came around. Andrea needs confidence and that's something the coach ain't giving him...

At the beginning of the season Moon had a couple of rough games off the bench and the coach put him in the starting lineup with extended minutes (right around the same time he yanked Andrea). He put more confidence in an undrafted player out of the CBA than a developing young guy that went first overall in the 2006 draft (and is suppose to be the future of the team). Maybe if Andrea was black he'd get more playing time but either way it's ridiculous cause he was a big part of last year's success and it's (Please Use More Appropriate Word) how quickly most of you "fans" have forgotten. You rather get rid of him now after half a season for next to nothing then give him a chance to get back on track?!

Personally I think we need a new coach. I trust BC over Sam anyday cause I saw first hand how great a coach Sam was before BC got here (<-- sarcasm if you can't tell). BC gave Sam the players, Sam used them to get his new contract and now he's pretty much slapping the GM in the face by benching guys like Kapono and Bargs. Last game Bargs should have come back in the 2nd quarter but we didn't see him till the start of the second half... I want Sam to bench Bosh or Moon for 18 minutes after picking up two quick fouls so we can see how hot those guys are coming off the break.