What's with all the Joey Graham hate on this board?

[RapsVC15]

That play where he left Marvin Williams wide open was hilarious.

[Alfred]

I'm sorry, but Joey is just not a good basketball player. Maybe he did play the four in college, but like so many undersized 4s in college, he didn't make the transition to the NBA. Joey also has short arms, which amplifies his shortness, making it even harder to play the 4.

He also doesn't have a very good basketball IQ, doesn't move the ball around the perimeter (which is one of the key parts of our offense) and has a brutal handle on the ball. He has okay-ish range on his jumpshot, but nothing that really allows him to get open or stretch the floor, and outside of his ability to shoot, all he really has is assisted dunks. Not to mention the fact that he is good for an offensive foul almost every time he sees signifigant floortime.

On defense he often forgets assignments, and plays people too aggressively, picking up fouls. He doesn't block a lot of shots because his arms are too short, and he doesn't read passing lanes very well, so he doesn't pick up any steals.

He is just generally not a good NBA player i.e. he sucks.

[emfive]

I'm sorry, but Joey is just not a good basketball player. Maybe he did play the four in college, but like so many undersized 4s in college, he didn't make the transition to the NBA. Joey also has short arms, which amplifies his shortness, making it even harder to play the 4.

He also doesn't have a very good basketball IQ, doesn't move the ball around the perimeter (which is one of the key parts of our offense) and has a brutal handle on the ball. He has okay-ish range on his jumpshot, but nothing that really allows him to get open or stretch the floor, and outside of his ability to shoot, all he really has is assisted dunks. Not to mention the fact that he is good for an offensive foul almost every time he sees signifigant floortime.

On defense he often forgets assignments, and plays people too aggressively, picking up fouls. He doesn't block a lot of shots because his arms are too short, and he doesn't read passing lanes very well, so he doesn't pick up any steals.

He is just generally not a good NBA player i.e. he sucks.

And Sam has put him on the floor the past couple because ....?

[Southward1]

he has a low bbiq
his shot is inconsistent
he tends to be overaggressive going to the rack so he gets a lot of offensive fouls
he forgets (or doesn't know how) to box out
he forgets what man he's guarding sometimes
he doesn't have high confidence
he doesn't have the handles to be a sf, and is too small to play pf most of the time

[PharoaheMonch]

I can't believe people still discuss Joey Graham lol. Do you see Boston Celtics fans making threads about Scott Pollard? Or Suns fans make threads on Sean Marks?

Come on people.

[Alfred]

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And Sam has put him on the floor the past couple because ....?

He wanted hustle and energy, and Bargnani has been worse than awful. Besides, playing a couple of minutes a game for a couple of games doesn't mean you're good.

Did you watch the game today? Joey made many, many mistakes on the court. Dribbling the ball off his foot for a turnover, leaving Williams wide, wide open for an easy jumpshot, got blocked, missed a shot and racked up goose eggs in every other statistical category.

[knickerbocker2k2]

i agree, i think joey gets undeserved hate. by now everybody should know what you are getting in joey. you are not going to be getting a vc type of guard/forward, instead a corliss clone. if you accept this, then graham could have a solid role on this team.

joey can

1) hit the mid-j with consistency
2) post up smaller guards/forwards (rarely every used thu in this role)
3) rebound well at the 3spot/not soo great at 4.

i think he would play the role bargani is playing now much better. tonite he was like plus 10, b/c our we didnt have bargani sitting at the top of the key not being guarded. in tat stretch he was around the basket, opening up the perimeter for parker/bosh/calderon to go off.

graham/moon would be great small lineup. bosh could play the 5, moon would be our help defender and graham could try to body up the posting up PF/SF. i think we would have greater success with that then bargani in the lineup.

[emfive]

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He wanted hustle and energy, and Bargnani has been worse than awful. Besides, playing a couple of minutes a game for a couple of games doesn't mean you're good.

Did you watch the game today? Joey made many, many mistakes on the court. Dribbling the ball off his foot for a turnover, leaving Williams wide, wide open for an easy jumpshot, got blocked, missed a shot and racked up goose eggs in every other statistical category.

To be honest Alf I had dinner out with the family (those inconsiderate so and so's )

I hate to be put in a postion of defending Joey because I realize he does have shortcomings. It just seems to me that there are a few things he brings to the plate. If I am Sam and I look at 9/10/11 players down the bench I might not think I have that bad.

I think that for most of us it is such a disappointment in terms of what we got back from that trade. Although it seems that NJ might be having similar issues with the same player.

[Mack11]

I can't believe people still discuss Joey Graham lol. Do you see Boston Celtics fans making threads about Scott Pollard? Or Suns fans make threads on Sean Marks?

Come on people.

Joey was the 16th pick, plus he has all the tools to be a serviceable player. Which is why he's frustrating to watch

[Lionel Messi]

joey has good handles. he is just plain nervous when he has the ball. he looks like his hands are shaking just because he touched a ball. if he was playing in the d-league and getting minutes u guys would see his handles are actually good.

he can hit the open three (we saw that last year) and with enuff floor time (in dleague or here) he will get used to finding himself open mid-range shots.

he has nice form on his shot and is a monster athlete.

he does NOT suck.

we originally drafted him for his defense but he never got used to the nba and lost his chance.

no joey g hating in this poster

[kmatrixg]

2 Guys that make my blood boil when they touch the court:

Juan Dixon
Joey Graham

Neither can take care of the damn ball, both are confused and out of place on the floor. Joey, particularly, doesn't know how to play offense. He is just sooooo terrible, there was a play in the early 3rd, where he had the ball, turned around and had a Hawk player "spook" him, and he dropped the ball. It was ridiculous. Then, on the defense, he completely missed some simple pick and roll switch assignments, leading to a couple Williams jumpers. Again, ridiculous. He needs to get his head in the game - at least Bargnani is trying to put his head in the game. Graham just doesn't care, as long as he gets his.

[kmatrixg]

i agree, i think joey gets undeserved hate. by now everybody should know what you are getting in joey. you are not going to be getting a vc type of guard/forward, instead a corliss clone. if you accept this, then graham could have a solid role on this team.

Hahahaha, so when the fans start showing love, he starts producing? I don't get that defense on the part of Joey G. He won't get better, he is what he is, and that is why he shouldn't be on the floor. Another reason why I think he is being showcased for trade bait, along with Dixon. Neither are good enough to be playing with this team...I take that back - they may be good enough, but neither fit in with this team.

[Lionel Messi]

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Hahahaha, so when the fans start showing love, he starts producing? I don't get that defense on the part of Joey G. He won't get better, he is what he is, and that is why he shouldn't be on the floor. Another reason why I think he is being showcased for trade bait, along with Dixon. Neither are good enough to be playing with this team...I take that back - they may be good enough, but neither fit in with this team.

actually, they both fit fine, but only when theyre at their best (when juan first came in and was just playing his game not pulling up for tj ford-style fading mid-rangers)...

[OldNo7]

But lets get real here....I find Joey has been playing some decent ball lately and most of his mistakes he's been making is as a result of not quite being in game shape so he's a little slow at reacting on O and D.

Please explain what his problems were the last 3 years when he was reacting very slowly on O and D...

[knickerbocker2k2]

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Hahahaha, so when the fans start showing love, he starts producing? I don't get that defense on the part of Joey G. He won't get better, he is what he is, and that is why he shouldn't be on the floor. Another reason why I think he is being showcased for trade bait, along with Dixon. Neither are good enough to be playing with this team...I take that back - they may be good enough, but neither fit in with this team.

you missed the point of my post. most people think that joey should playing the 2/3 on this team. he has being primarily used as perimeter play by sam. if you expect joey to swingman who is going to be playing off the perimeter and creating his own shot, then you are going to be disappointed b/c he is not a perimeter player. he doesn't have the ball skills to play out there. he is only going to fail.

thus far this year he has being primarily used as big man. i think his role on this team is when we play small ball. if we use him as undersized 4, we could have better success. the only time he would be gettin ball would be to shot his open J or when he has post position in the post.

for instance IMO he would've played better then delfino tonight. in the 4th we didn't have rasho/bargs/hump playing. we had moon/delfino as PF. i think we are better off having delfino as our facilitor at the 1/2 when calderon is out of the game, and having joey playing with Moon at the 3/4 spot.

he has proven he can't be our starting 2 or even at the SF. but in the role i mention above he could have success given his basketball skills.

[CreaM]

2 Guys that make my blood boil when they touch the court:

Juan Dixon
Joey Graham

Neither can take care of the damn ball, both are confused and out of place on the floor. Joey, particularly, doesn't know how to play offense. He is just sooooo terrible, there was a play in the early 3rd, where he had the ball, turned around and had a Hawk player "spook" him, and he dropped the ball. It was ridiculous. Then, on the defense, he completely missed some simple pick and roll switch assignments, leading to a couple Williams jumpers. Again, ridiculous. He needs to get his head in the game - at least Bargnani is trying to put his head in the game. Graham just doesn't care, as long as he gets his.

Actually, everything that applies to Joey also applies to Bargs. Bargnani definitely looks to get his more often than not and most of the time is a blackhole on offense.

[RockTHECasbah]

he was a +10 in limited minutes today

[undisputed55]

Very low basketball IQ, very bad hands....in other words a SF version of Kwame Brown. Break out the salami and cheese mama, his career is over.

[RapsBulls4evr]

I'm just looking for an answer here. Have 90% of this board adopted the Sam Mitchell approach to him where if he makes a mistake you take him to the cleaners? I just don't get it...Steve Nash leads the league in turnovers, Dwight Howard can't shoot free throws etc.....players have their shortcomings.

But lets get real here....I find Joey has been playing some decent ball lately and most of his mistakes he's been making is as a result of not quite being in game shape so he's a little slow at reacting on O and D.

Case in point. Joey Graham was a +10 tonight ranking 5th behind Moon, AP, Calderon and CB4. He was the best raptor after those guys and he only played 5 mins. He got to the line (which anyone other than Bosh can't get to) and he's been looking to score inside which I find is a major plus.

You guys have got to relax on the kid for one and for two, I like what he brings to the Raptors more than Delfino. Also, Delfino was buried on the bench in DET, got moved to Toronto and just set a career high in points. Carlos was a well known hated Piston too, similar to Joey. Ease up on Joey....he deserves more PT...but for some reason he ain't getting it. The way he's been playing he deserves at least 15 mpg...which with the way Andrea has been playing lately (or this season), would probably be welcomed.

/rant

LOL, it's not even worth responding to your thread, but to put your mind at ease... before the trade deadline, I'm pretty sure BC will trade him. No more worrying about hating Joey G.

[omeloon]

I don't mind him... he's just clearly not needed, so I rather not keep his unhappy self. Even with Bargnani playing like crap, and Garbo not playing at all, we can barely find a use for him. We can't go 13 men deep like we were at the start of the season, so I rather shorten yet strengthen our bench if possible. Hopefully trading him in a package helps us shorten yet strengthen our rotation!!