Andrea...now vs the future?

[djsunyc]

i think some raptor players are starting to get frustrated with bargs. i mean, every single game now, without fail, he picks up 2 quick fouls and has to sit.

vs. atlanta, every starter played 40 mins except bargs, who played 14.

then the next night of a back to back, 4th game in 5 nights, when guys like bosh and jose need to sit for a few minutes, he goes and picks up 2 quick fouls again and has to sit.

it's gotta be frustrating.

[Rhettmatic]

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Dixon played some PG at Maryland. He can handle the ball, the biggest adjustment for him is just how he thinks the game. Bargs has been thrusted into a role he may never be able to play but if history has taught us anything its that Centre's take longer to develop at the NBA level. Look at Chandler, everyone thought he was a bust and now he's getting tryouts for the US olympic team. As much as it burns me to say it, we have to wait and be patient with Bargnani. He has been ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL so far but to trade him now won't get us much in return.

I agree with you, but that doesn't make up for what I perceive to be a poor attitude and inconsistent effort level. And some people seem willing to attribute it to a rift with Mitchell, but that's not fair. He's an adult. If I had the opportunity of a lifetime, I wouldn't squander it because I didn't like my boss.

[deknow]

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I agree with you, but that doesn't make up for what I perceive to be a poor attitude and inconsistent effort level. And some people seem willing to attribute it to a rift with Mitchell, but that's not fair. He's an adult. If I had the opportunity of a lifetime, I wouldn't squander it because I didn't like my boss.

You're preaching to the choir I agree his effort hasn't been there at all. He plays with little desire and absolutely no urgency. But again its hard to evaluate his play when he can't even stay on the court!

This is a bloody mess....

[El Presidente]

You're preaching to the choir I agree his effort hasn't been there at all. He plays with little desire and absolutely no urgency. But again its hard to evaluate his play when he can't even stay on the court!

C'mon, is it really hard to evaluate his play? The fact that he can't stay on the floor because of foul trouble should help you evaluate his defensive techniques. Guys getting rebounds over him should help you evaluate his rebounding and positioning skill. You might have a point on offense, if a man is only playing 10 minutes he can't really have an impact but in those limited minutes you've seen what he's trying to do on the offensive end, it's not pretty.

[deknow]

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C'mon, is it really hard to evaluate his play? The fact that he can't stay on the floor because of foul trouble should help you evaluate his defensive techniques. Guys getting rebounds over him should help you evaluate his rebounding and positioning skill. You might have a point on offense, if a man is only playing 10 minutes he can't really have an impact but in those limited minutes you've seen what he's trying to do on the offensive end, it's not pretty.

I did mean offensively but its true defensively its blatantly obvious where his problems lie. Terrible footwork. Still.

[dagger]

i think some raptor players are starting to get frustrated with bargs. i mean, every single game now, without fail, he picks up 2 quick fouls and has to sit.

vs. atlanta, every starter played 40 mins except bargs, who played 14.

then the next night of a back to back, 4th game in 5 nights, when guys like bosh and jose need to sit for a few minutes, he goes and picks up 2 quick fouls again and has to sit.

it's gotta be frustrating.

Listen, he's picking up too many fouls, some debatable on his part, but let's not over-exaggerate: Quick to me means in 3-4 minutes of play. If he's playing 6-7 minutes to get his second, it's too soon, but it's not quick. I've seen lots of young centres get two really quick fouls to start the game. Until this season, you could get Kendrick Perkins out of a game in the first 60-90 seconds by taking the ball at him. Dalembert has those kinds of games, too. And if you have to give Bosh a rest early, let Bargnani go through his third foul, even his fourth foul. Who cares? We've never, ever used all six fouls he can give. He's never fouled out of a game.

[El Presidente]

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Listen, he's picking up too many fouls, some debatable on his part, but let's not over-exaggerate: Quick to me means in 3-4 minutes of play. If he's playing 6-7 minutes to get his second, it's too soon, but it's not quick. I've seen lots of young centres get two really quick fouls to start the game. Until this season, you could get Kendrick Perkins out of a game in the first 60-90 seconds by taking the ball at him. Dalembert has those kinds of games, too. And if you have to give Bosh a rest early, let Bargnani go through his third foul, even his fourth foul. Who cares? We've never, ever used all six fouls he can give. He's never fouled out of a game.

Somewhat unrelated but did you feel last night that we should've made an effort to get Dalembert out of the game early? He didn't pick up his third foul till 10 seconds left in the game.

[ilikecb4]

who cares if Bargniani fouls out?

well Hoffa fouled out all the time, and we know Bargniani probably doesnt want to end up like him...at least the management dont

[dagger]

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Somewhat unrelated but did you feel last night that we should've made an effort to get Dalembert out of the game early? He didn't pick up his third foul till 10 seconds left in the game.

I always believe in driving on Dalembert for that purpose. It sets a tone for his entire game.

We did a lot of uncharacteristically bad/stupid things yesterday

[basketball royalty]

Yeah, its a great idea to keep on flip flopping the lineup.


I think patience is the key here and a couple weeks does not patience make. Besides, if Andrea does finally get it at any point this season, we will be a far better team than with Rasho. If he doesn't, does it really matter? We are hardly a lock to go to the second round and mos def not going any further than that this season.

Our time is not now, so why set up a treadmill? Get Bargs to the top of his game through experience and PT and our team will be better off in the long run.

[basketball royalty]

who cares if Bargniani fouls out?

well Hoffa fouled out all the time, and we know Bargniani probably doesnt want to end up like him...at least the management dont

Actually Hoffa never fouled out of a game either. I think Sam thinks players are only allowed 4 fouls or something.

[Bryans_Collar]

re: fouls

I'd like to distinguish between types of "dumb" fouls:
- away from the basket when the player isn't in a high% situation
- being overagressive near the basket

If anyone watched Oden at tOSU last year, he had a major problem picking up fouls - however, they were all from being too aggressive - going for blocks, strips, banging down low, etc.

It was unwise for him to pick up a 2nd foul on a low % block attempt but at least it's done with good intentions.

If Bargs was picking up these types of fouls I wouldn't be too worried, I'd actually like it and want him to "use all 6".

But the fouls he's picking up are borderline (Please Use More Appropriate Word), away from the basket, and aren't b/c of overaggressive D.