bargnani's new position

bill russell · Post #1 » by **bill russell** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:22 am

I'm starting another bargnani thread (bear with me) because I don't think this angle has received particular attention and I'd like to hear what you all have to say about it. Here's a sam quote from last week:

"Andrea is improving. Everyone keeps saying,

Live Free · Post #2 » by **Live Free** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:24 am

so lets call him our 7 foot shooting gaurd?

bill russell · Post #3 » by **bill russell** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:26 am

mad-mo wrote:so lets call him our 7 foot shooting gaurd?

I honestly think that's how Bargs sees himself but that's not what the team wants. They really think he's got a five in him.

Bosh-Tyme · Post #4 » by **Bosh-Tyme** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:27 am

another excuse for his poor play. Just because your playing a new position doesn't mean you should forget how to shoot

omeloon · Post #5 » by **omeloon** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:29 am

He'd probably look perfect next to a big man like Dwight Howard, but unfortunately we need him to rebound and play more like a big man as long as Bosh is our star player.

Getting a SF like Kirilenko or Josh SMith would also solve a lot of problems. Both would play like big men on offence while getting a bunch of weak side blocks, while Bargnani could handle the opposing center one on one.

CreaM · Post #6 » by **CreaM** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:29 am

The people that were against the pick on draft night don't look so stupid now do they? I have said it multiple times, Bargnani will never successfully play the Center position in this league.

Live Free · Post #7 » by **Live Free** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:33 am

bill russell wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I honestly think that's how Bargs sees himself but that's not what the team wants. They really think he's got a five in him.

you have got to be kiddin me, hes a freakin 7 footer, any team will see a five in him.. hes 7 feet.. if your a seven footer in the nba and have the mindset of a six footer then you don't belong in the league.. get him in the paint and bang them midgets.. honestly.. he can shoot the ball too but he ain't makin em now is he?.. seven footer who doesn't rebound or have a legit post game..wow

bill russell · Post #8 » by **bill russell** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:38 am

mad-mo wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

you have got to be kiddin me, hes a freakin 7 footer, any team will see a five in him.. hes 7 feet.. if your a seven footer in the nba and have the mindset of a six footer then you don't belong in the league.. get him in the paint and bang them midgets.. honestly.. he can shoot the ball too but he ain't makin em now is he?.. seven footer who doesn't rebound or have a legit post game..wow

I agree any team would see a five in him, though not every team would want to take on the task of transforming him given that he does have the mindset of a six-footer. It's a high-risk, high-reward project. What I want to know is if it's been done before? Are there precedents?

Kordic27 · Post #9 » by **Kordic27** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:39 am

The thing about 'transitioning to centre' is that it seems as though, for the most part in the NBA, the centre and PF are interchangeable. Or they at least have so many similarities to make me think that Bargs wouldn't be doing that much better if he was playing PF.

So what position do his current skills lend themselves to? People keel saying that his horrible play is because he's learning a new position, but what position does he know? SF? SG? Can you imagine how horrible he would be if he tried to play either of those?

Live Free · Post #10 » by **Live Free** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:40 am

bill russell wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I agree any team would see a five in him, though not every team would want to take on the task of transforming him given that he does have the mindset of a six-footer. It's a high-risk, high-reward project. What I want to know is if it's been done before? Are there precedents?

none that i know of, if you want a shooting gaurd you go get one.. you don't go for a 7 foot shooting gaurd and try to transform him

hksazn · Post #11 » by **hksazn** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:41 am

basically what your saying is that we picked a late first rounder as our number one pick.

Raw talent and very athletic but doesn't know the position.

Saer Sene

The_Hater · Post #12 » by **The_Hater** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:42 am

bill russell wrote:I honestly think that's how Bargs sees himself but that's not what the team wants. They really think he's got a five in him.

'

While that's definitely not what the team wants, I do believe that's how Andrea sees himself. Because that's exactly how he plays the game.

He watches other players rebound, he doesn't guard the basket on defense and he only seems to get excited when he's able to get the ball on the perimeter and put up a jump shot.

He's got a long way to go, both physically and mentally.

bill russell · Post #13 » by **bill russell** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:42 am

Kordic27 wrote:The thing about 'transitioning to centre' is that it seems as though, for the most part in the NBA, the centre and PF are interchangeable. Or they at least have so many similarities to make me think that Bargs wouldn't be doing that much better if he was playing PF.

So what position do his current skills lend themselves to? People keel saying that his horrible play is because he's learning a new position, but what position does he know? SF? SG? Can you imagine how horrible he would be if he tried to play either of those?

In the european environment that produced Bargnani the three and four are more interchangeable (think garbo). Much of last year Bargs played like a three -- which is what Sam meant with his comment about him being 30 feet from the basket all the time. But we all agree Bargs isn't really suited for three -- he's a good athlete for his size but he'd get eaten alive if he had to live out there.

Kordic27 · Post #14 » by **Kordic27** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:48 am

bill russell wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

In the european environment that produced Bargnani the three and four are more interchangeable (think garbo). Much of last year Bargs played like a three -- which is what Sam meant with his comment about him being 30 feet from the basket all the time. But we all agree Bargs isn't really suited for three -- he's a good athlete for his size but he'd get eaten alive if he had to live out there.

Exactly, but that kind've means that, in the NBA, he doesn't really have a position. He simply can not play the 2 or 3, and he's proving he can't play the 4 or 5.

I don't want to give up on him yet, but every game I expect him to break out. I'm giving him until after the summer... if he spends it working out like a dog to make sure he never again experiences what he's currently experiencing, then I think he'll be okay. Any other scenario and I think we cut him during training camp for the well-being of the entire team.

Kabookalu · Post #15 » by **Kabookalu** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:50 am

omeloon wrote:Getting a SF like Kirilenko or Josh SMith would also solve a lot of problems. Both would play like big men on offence while getting a bunch of weak side blocks, while Bargnani could handle the opposing center one on one.

We already have Jamario Moon who fits this mold of player. No need to give up other valuable assets to get a player that we already have even if they are better than Moon.

omeloon · Post #16 » by **omeloon** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:58 am

Jamario Moon? On defense he's close, but he's still a perimeter player. I'm talking about SF's who like playing close to the basket on offense (Kirilenko, Gerrald, and Josh SMith).

bill russell · Post #17 » by **bill russell** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:59 am

Kordic27 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Exactly, but that kind've means that, in the NBA, he doesn't really have a position. He simply can not play the 2 or 3, and he's proving he can't play the 4 or 5.

I don't want to give up on him yet, but every game I expect him to break out. I'm giving him until after the summer... if he spends it working out like a dog to make sure he never again experiences what he's currently experiencing, then I think he'll be okay. Any other scenario and I think we cut him during training camp for the well-being of the entire team.

I guess I mostly agree with you, although I'll probably wait until training camp and the beginning weeks of the season to measure his progress and his attitude.

prototype · Post #18 » by **prototype** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:26 am

I wanted to post a similar topic to this about Bargs downfall. If anybody actually is paying attention to how he plays from this year compared to the beginning and last year would know the reason he's playing poorly is because of adjustment to having to play "Sam's way."

I am not one of those Sam haters who complain every game after a loss because of his poor coaching. But one thing I dislike is that he doesn't know how to hide the weakness of his players with their strengths.

Didn't Sam complain after the first few games about how Bargnani isn't doing what he's suppose to be doing even though he was having that great start?

Khan · Post #19 » by **Khan** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:17 am

Raptors is clearly developing Bargnani in the wrong way. If we look at Nowitzki's first few years, he was never forced to play at center position. Dallas gave a lot spaces to develop him as a player allowing him to shoot 3s and work on his post move slowly. What Mitchell is doing now does not work on Bargnani at all since he showed no motivation playing center because he has no center skills at all.

omeloon · Post #20 » by **omeloon** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:20 am

The problem is that all our players play on the perimeter, and the team rather force Bargnani out of his comfort zone than Bosh.