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Ian Thomsen responds to Raptor fans comment

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Ian Thomsen responds to Raptor fans comment 

Post#1 » by Test of Wills » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:18 am

Ian Thomsen responds to a Raptor fans comment to how Alonzo Mourning is not a Hall of Famer because of how he refused to play for the Raptors.

Most of your pro-Alonzo Mourning arguments for the Hall of Fame aren't that strong. He played long enough? So has Calbert Cheaney. Humanitarian work? Where was his concern over kidney research before he got sick? As for before the illness, you can't award a guy based on potential -- too speculative. You also offer a very limp defense for Zo sulking his way out of New Jersey and Toronto. Other players have made their way to championship contenders with, you know, CLASS.
-- Steve, Seoul

There's no way Zo is a Hall of Famer. What he did to the Raptors was disgusting. Raps fans (myself included) have a lot of hate for Vince Carter and how he dogged it when he was here, but in my opinion what Zo did was a lot worse. Play out your contract. Don't threaten to retire knowing full well you are healthy enough to keep playing for another few years. Charitable work is all well and good, but this shows what kind of a person he really is.
-- Warren Gonsalves, Toronto


Thomsen's Reply
First of all, I would encourage anyone to find how many Hall of Famers didn't have one or more incidents in which they either used contractual leverage against their team, or were otherwise involved in some kind of unseemly behavior. Charles Barkley had all sorts of incidents. Magic Johnson was accused of getting his coach fired. Scottie Pippen (who will certainly be elected to the Hall of Fame) benched himself in the playoffs because he wasn't awarded a buzzer-beating shot. Michael Jordan had issues with gambling. In each case, these and other concerns were put in perspective against the greater accomplishments of the player's career.

I imagine that my fellow Canadians will maintain that Mourning's refusal to play for them crossed an unforgivable line. There's nothing wrong with seeing it that way. I see it differently. Mourning had already spent years trying to play despite his kidney disease. After he was forced to undergo a life-saving transplant, Mourning could have simply cashed his guaranteed paychecks and made no attempt to earn the money by playing again; indeed, no one expected him to return to the NBA, and more than a few people worried that he was being reckless with his health in doing so.

That he did return in a substantial way proved to be a tremendous feat of will; no one should contest that much. And he didn't do it for the money, because he already had that whether or not he played.

But if he was going to come back, he wasn't going to play for the moribund Raptors. Why would he absorb so much risk on behalf of a franchise that was going nowhere? He wasn't going to risk his life -- as many believed he was doing -- in order to play .400 ball. He wanted his comeback to contribute to a larger cause, and that was to win a championship. And for him to win that championship in Miami gave more strength to his charitable efforts in that community.

The comment from Steve of Seoul is ridiculously mean-spirited. Of course Mourning didn't do charity work on behalf of kidney research and transplants before he was sick; he, like most of us, wasn't aware of the issues before he was sick. When he became aware of them, he did something about it. He devoted a lot of energy at a time when he had little to go around.

To those who insist that his choices or achievements fall short of the standard, I would ask: Have you taken a look at the players in the Hall of Fame? Those players were inducted according to a variety of reasons. Dominique Wilkins, who was accused throughout his career of being a selfish player, is a Hall of Famer. Maurice Stokes, a Rookie of the Year who played three seasons before suffering paralysis from a tragic fall to the court, is a Hall of Famer.

I contend that the story of Mourning's career, taking into account who he was before his illness and the achievements for which he worked so hard afterward, is altogether worthy of the Hall of Fame. And I believe in a few years that the Hall's voters will agree with me.
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Post#2 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:27 am

Thomson is correct and most Raptor fans completely overreact to entire Zo thing. He told Babcock he wouldn't report and Babcock pulled the trigger anyways.
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Post#3 » by Anticon » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:31 am

I agree with the_hater.

This is largely Babcock's fault for being idiotic enough to pull the trigger on a deal for some a malcontent, some washed up vets, and a couple of mid range picks.

The idiocy of that trade may never be topped.
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Post#4 » by emfive » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:35 am

The trade being done, the biggest problem was Babcock. He should have said. No worries Zo. Go home and get well. We will pay you. No problem. When you feel you are well enough to play we will try and make a deal.

Could have got a future pick, maybe. Someone would have played ball to have Zo, if they felt you would not budge. I am certain more than 1 eam would have stepped up. Could have been Miami's 2008. 8)

If not well money is paid anyway.
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Post#5 » by supersub15 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:39 am

Can somebody specify what we still have left, 3 years after the trade?
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Post#6 » by gei » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:45 am

supersub15 wrote:Can somebody specify what we still have left, 3 years after the trade?


Joey Graham :D
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Post#7 » by emfive » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:46 am

Hater is good at this sort of thing. But what I remember is Joey, part of Rasho, a couple of seconds in 2009 from NOH (one is their own) Are any of those turned into Carlos?
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Post#8 » by emfive » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:49 am

On the other hand it looks like NJ can get a diminshed JO back if they sweeten the pot? :P
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Post#9 » by Geddy » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:49 am

Hopefully that response from Thomsen will put to rest that petty bitterness that a lot of fans still have for Zo.
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Post#10 » by emfive » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:50 am

Oh yea. One more thing came in the deal ... indirectly of course .... BC! 8)
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Post#11 » by yucatan87 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:52 am

I think one of the New Orleans 2nd's turned into Edin Bavcic in 2006 who was sold to Philadelphia on draft day. The lower of the New Orleans and our own 2009 2nd round pick goes to Detroit as part of the Delfino trade, I think.
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Post#12 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:54 am

emfive wrote:Hater is good at this sort of thing. But what I remember is Joey, part of Rasho, a couple of seconds in 2009 from NOH (one is their own) Are any of those turned into Carlos?


Alonzo Mourning, Eric Williams, Aaron Williams, 76ers first round pick (top 8 protected in 2005, top 5 protected in 2006) (2005 #16-Joey Graham), 2006 first round pick (top 5 protected in 2006, top 2 protected in 2007) (2006 #20-Renaldo Balkman)

1st round pick turned into Joey Graham.

1st round pick turned into Renaldo Balkman (shipped in the Rose/AD trade)

Eric Williams (traded with Bonner for Rasho)

Aaron Williams (let go as free agent)

A. Mourning (final 2 1/2 years bought out)


Draw your own conclusions on what we got out of the entire thing but the way I see it, not much.
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Post#13 » by yucatan87 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:55 am

Aaron Williams was traded to the Hornets for 2 2nd rounders, not let go as a free agent.
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Post#14 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:59 am

yucatan87 wrote:Aaron Williams was traded to the Hornets for 2 2nd rounders, not let go as a free agent.


Sorry. Right. Aaron Williams.

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Post#15 » by chsh22 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:02 am

rkid wrote:Hopefully that response from Thomsen will put to rest that petty bitterness that a lot of fans still have for Zo.

Where's the green font?
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Post#16 » by True Warrior Zo » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:18 am

i fully agree with everything that Thomsen had to say (no suprise given my name). While i would have loved to see Zo play for the raptors, i completely understood his decision not too. Babcock was to blame on this one, after being told before the trade that Zo wasn't go to report and still deciding to acquire him. I think he did this because he needed a "name" in return for Carter. Even though Zo was a shell of his former self, raps fans would have gone nuts getting the william's and some d-leaguer. This way babcock took himself out of the spotlight.

What people fail to realize is that just by stepping onto the court again, he gave hope to thousands of people all over the world. his contributions are somewhat like Lance Armstrong (though not as big). I've had a chance to work with children who have life threatening illnesses, and watching a 6-10 monster throwing down dunks and blocking shots with no fear is a huge morale booster for any person no matter the age.

What Raps fans should keep in mind is that while he scorned a few thousand of Raps fans by not reporting (which wouldn't have helped the raps win a championship in any way), he helped that many more people in LIFE. Im glad he won his championship, and hopefully he will be a HOF-er, it would give him even more status to help people.
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Post#17 » by emfive » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:26 am

Wow even ZO fans hate babcock!

:cry: LEAVE ROBBIE ALONE! :cry:


:lol:
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Post#18 » by RockTHECasbah » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:29 am

Its not only being aware of the issues. A lot of us are aware. Its a feeling of empathy. No need to sugarcoat this, Ian.
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Post#19 » by WD-40 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:33 am

The_Hater wrote:Thomson is correct and most Raptor fans completely overreact to entire Zo thing. He told Babcock he wouldn't report and Babcock pulled the trigger anyways.


Sure, but he's still an a-hole. He always was as far as I'm concerned. Is he HOF worthy? Not sure, but he was a heck of a player.
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Post#20 » by OldNo7 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:07 am

The_Hater wrote:Thomson is correct and most Raptor fans completely overreact to entire Zo thing. He told Babcock he wouldn't report and Babcock pulled the trigger anyways.


Took the words right out of my mouth, and words I have said on this board before.
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