colangelo's type of player

bill russell · Post #1 » by **bill russell** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:07 pm

Okay, we have to be very careful and respectful as we talk about this, but we should talk about it because it is kinda fascinating. As noted in another thread, former Raps coach Dave Hopla had this to say about the team:
"The players were great both on and off the floor. Bible study group headed by Herbie was truly a blessing for me and the regular guys who attended. Joey, AP, Juan, Hump, Luke and Willis the security guy."
We seem to have a team full of bible students and europeans. Yes, there are a lot of Christians and Europeans on other NBA students, but we seem to have more than our share. And we don't have anyone with street cred. No one who's been shot at outside a bar. No one (to my knowledge) who's made a rap album. Nothing remotely gangsta about this club. It can't have happened by accident. I think BC's style is an implicit argument against certain aspects of North American basketball culture. It's definitely not a racial thing -- let's be perfectly clear on that. It's a cultural thing. He seems down on American street culture, the whole gangsta thing (which is attitudinal, not racial). He seems to be setting himself up somewhat in opposition to that. There's a pattern through Phoenix and Toronto.
Or maybe he was just traumatized by a bad ride with Marbury in Phoenix. What do you think?

Joker · Post #2 » by **Joker** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:11 pm

bible study group :nonono:

T.Duncan21 · Post #3 » by **T.Duncan21** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:11 pm

random_hero891 · Post #4 » by **random_hero891** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:11 pm

Bryan wants coachable players, it's lot easier for players to develop in an atmosphere that isn't full of egos and attitudes, he knows this and picks players that will be a positive impact for a young team

Joker · Post #5 » by **Joker** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:16 pm

Doesn't the Bible teach selflessness, sharing, and generosity?

How the hell are Graham, Dixon, and Humphries in that group? :lol:

anon2222 · Post #6 » by **anon2222** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:20 pm

Bryan's teams are built to be soft! Look at Phoenix. They don't rebound well, they're not physical, they're not good on defense, they don't have an "edge" and they have yet to reach the NBA finals. They will outscore you though and hopefully that is Bryan's eventual plan for the raps because right now they are really soft and are not a great scoring team like phx.

Post #7 » by **Schad** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:25 pm

It's the desire to build chemistry, pure and simple.

It's not an indictment of mainstream North American basketball culture, IMO, because a number of our players emerged from that system...both Juan Dixon and Jamario Moon were fantastic high school players that grew up in the 'feeder system' of the AAU, and I believe a number of our other players went that route as well.

The difference is simply that all of them have good heads on their shoulders. It might seem, at times, that Hump's isn't as full as some others, but he definitely seems to be a quality guy, despite his occasional delusions of grandeur. And his game certainly is not soft. Nor is Graham's, as it's hard to describe a style which involves flattening friend and foe as meek.

I'd also mention that there isn't necessarily a link between religiosity and either 'soft' play or high character; not intended in any way to disparage religious players, but many of those criticized as 'thugs' are extremely committed to their faiths. Artest is a devout Christian, from what I remember.

T.Duncan21 · Post #8 » by **T.Duncan21** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:30 pm

anon2222 wrote:Bryan's teams are built to be soft! Look at Phoenix. They don't rebound well, they're not physical, they're not good on defense, they don't have an "edge" and they have yet to reach the NBA finals. They will outscore you though and hopefully that is Bryan's eventual plan for the raps because right now they are really soft and are not a great scoring team like phx.

I would have to disagree there. PHO plays with an edge... it's just that they play small ball so obviously, they're gonna look weaker than they would if they played with a traditional lineup. Amare, Marion and Bell are no push over. If Amare and Marion played their real positions... they'd actually be considered some of the toughest guys at their positions. The toughest guy we have is our PG Ford and our backup C Humphries... the rest are really soft. Sorry but I don't see any similarities to PHO with our current team other than we like to jack up 3's.

Joker · Post #9 » by **Joker** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:31 pm

I'll echo some of the comments above.

Being undersized both in terms of height and mass leads to getting pushed around, which doesn't necessarily mean you're soft. That's Phoenix's problem.

mastertang · Post #10 » by **mastertang** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:32 pm

Isn't Dwight Howard very religious? Maybe the Bible study group is an attempt to bring him to Toronto.....................

Asterix · Post #11 » by **Asterix** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:37 pm

Joey's play is the devil's making... :evil:

Post #12 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:43 pm

I think street cred means nothing. Melo had street cred then proved to be the world's biggest pussy during the New York Knicks/Nuggets Fiasco. Ron Artest has street cred and has proved unable to stay on the court with an organization for any length of time. Street cred and thug type players are usually image-is-everything, devoid-of-substance, hype believing headcases.

I think BC wants players that play a team game and aren't a detriment to his team.

I'd be curious to know what street-cred players you guys think have never been a detriment to their team by putting themselves and/or their wreckless lifestyle ahead of their team and career - please list some.

EnigmaticProblem · Post #13 » by **EnigmaticProblem** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:48 pm

Yuri Vaultin wrote:I think street cred means nothing. Melo had street cred then proved to be the world's biggest pussy during the New York Knicks/Nuggets Fiasco. Ron Artest has street cred and has proved unable to stay on the court with an organization for any length of time. Street cred and thug type players are usually image-is-everything, devoid-of-substance, hype believing headcases.

I think BC wants players that play a team game and aren't a detriment to his team.

I'd be curious to know what street-cred players you guys think have never been a detriment to their team by putting themselves and/or their wreckless lifestyle ahead of their team and career - please list some.

Maybe, just maybe. . . Allen Iverson?

bakafool · Post #14 » by **bakafool** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:52 pm

Street cred is BS. If you don't act professionally then BC won't bother, simple as that.

Post #15 » by **Yuri Vaultin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:52 pm

EnigmaticProblem wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Maybe, just maybe. . . Allen Iverson?

Iverson has matured. Earlier in his career it was common for him to have issues with "the man". Iverson is a good example - I just feel that there are very few.

Well, other than the NBA model citizen, Ruben Patterson...

The_Hater · Post #16 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:55 pm

The main thing I've noticed about a 'BC type player' is that he wants guys that are coachable. Players that listen to and take instruction and play team oriented basketball.

rtcaino · Post #17 » by **rtcaino** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:00 pm

bill russell wrote:Okay, we have to be very careful and respectful as we talk about this, but we should talk about it because it is kinda fascinating. As noted in another thread, former Raps coach Dave Hopla had this to say about the team:
"The players were great both on and off the floor. Bible study group headed by Herbie was truly a blessing for me and the regular guys who attended. Joey, AP, Juan, Hump, Luke and Willis the security guy."
We seem to have a team full of bible students and europeans. Yes, there are a lot of Christians and Europeans on other NBA students, but we seem to have more than our share. And we don't have anyone with street cred. No one who's been shot at outside a bar. No one (to my knowledge) who's made a rap album. Nothing remotely gangsta about this club. It can't have happened by accident. I think BC's style is an implicit argument against certain aspects of North American basketball culture. It's definitely not a racial thing -- let's be perfectly clear on that. It's a cultural thing. He seems down on American street culture, the whole gangsta thing (which is attitudinal, not racial). He seems to be setting himself up somewhat in opposition to that. There's a pattern through Phoenix and Toronto.
Or maybe he was just traumatized by a bad ride with Marbury in Phoenix. What do you think?

JC is on our side and he has mad street cred. That guy died for your sins.

bakafool · Post #18 » by **bakafool** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:01 pm

TJ Caino wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

JC is on our side and he has mad street cred. That guy died for your sins.

Post #19 » by **YogiStewart** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:20 pm

i did kind of notice that our team is devoid of Jewish, Muslim and Ba'hai players....

hrm....

is Brian Colangelo a racialist?!?!?

J Dilla · Post #20 » by **J Dilla** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:37 pm

Bryan Colangelo sounds racist to me. The Raptors could use a player like that in their lineup.