The Raptor's GM history in review

[The_Hater]

The Raptors have had 4 full-time GM's during franchise history.

1. Isiah Thomas - He's currently president of the 3rd worst team in basketball and the team with the least wins per every $1 of payroll.

2. Glen Grunwald - He's currently the GM of the 3rd worst team in basketball and the team with the least wins per every $1 of payroll.

3. Rob Babcock - He's currently the Asst GM for the worst team in basketball.

4. Brian Colangelo - Current Toronto GM

Here's my completely biased opinion on what we've had in charge.

Isiah Thomas has proven himself to be completely incompetent after leaving here. We don't really need to go into the ugly details.

Rob Babcock is likely incompetent but quickly hung himself before he could prove himself to be completely incompetent. But we do know that he was learning the business from somebody that is completely incompetent (Kevin McHale) before coming here which doesn't help his current case. The details on his incompetence are well documented and don't need to be rehashed again.

Glen Grunwald. Most of us thought that Grunwald was doing a decent job while he was here (including myself) and he's definitely a professional. But in hindsight he traded all-stars Chauncy Billups and Marcus Camby for Antonio Davis and Charles Oakley and lost all-star Tracy McGrady for nothing. Yet even without those 3 stars on the payroll, somehow he completely handcuffed the Raptors cap situation in the process. His biggest prize has always been considred the drafting Vince Carter but with all-stars like Paul Pierce, Dirk Nowitzki and Antawn Jamison still on the board during that pick, it was really a tough one to completely screw up at the time.

But considering that he did have some modest results while in charge, being nice, the final verdict on GG is that he ranks somewhere between below average and incompetent.

In summary, we're extremely fortunate to have Brian Colangelo running this franchise.

[mintsa]

The gap between 3 & 4 is crazy. We really got lucky to get BC over here.

[RapTelligence]

Colangelo brings stability to the franchise. He commands respect around the league and that can only help the cause.

[deknow]

Grunwald got off to a great start. I still believe he is an above adequate GM. He would be doing a nice job with the Knicks.

[J Dilla]

Grunwald is a good GM. The contracts werent a problem. When he was here, the Raptors were a bad team because of the injuries.

I'd still say he's the best GM in Raptors history. Drafted Chris Bosh, Vince Carter, Morris Peterson and always made trades that made the team better (Childs, Rose, Oakley, Davis, Clark).

BC is just looking good because of Babcock's man Jose and Grunwalds man Chris Bosh. The only moves I liked were Hump and Parker. He signed Jason Kapono, which is looking really bad right now. He didnt even clear up the capspace himself, it was Babcock and Embry's work.

[at87on]

Grunwald is a good GM. The contracts werent a problem. When he was here, the Raptors were a bad team because of the injuries.

I'd still say he's the best GM in Raptors history. Drafted Chris Bosh, Vince Carter, Morris Peterson and always made trades that made the team better (Childs, Rose, Oakley, Davis, Clark).

BC is just looking good because of Babcock's man Jose and Grunwalds man Chris Bosh. The only moves I liked were Hump and Parker. He signed Jason Kapono, which is looking really bad right now. He didnt even clear up the capspace himself, it was Babcock and Embry's work.

I'd have to agree with this assessment.

BC hasn't done anything yet to prove his "worth" .. Obviously noone is writing him off, but there's no need to praise him YET. Kapono or Bargnani haven't been great moves so far.

[ruckus]

-= original quote snipped =-



I'd have to agree with this assessment.

BC hasn't done anything yet to prove his "worth" .. Obviously noone is writing him off, but there's no need to praise him YET. Kapono or Bargnani haven't been great moves so far.

In his first season, the Raptors went to the playoffs with a forecasted repeat performance this year. What more does he need to prove?

Here are a short list of the moves he's made since he's been here (feel free to add more if I missed anything):

-drafted Bargs
-signed Fred Jones (who later was traded for Juan Dixon)
-traded CV for TJ Ford
-traded Hoffa for Hump
-traded 2 2nd rounders for Delfino
-brought over AP & Garbo
-resigned Smitch, CB4 & TJ
-signed Kapono

[seanied]

Grunwald is a good GM. The contracts werent a problem. When he was here, the Raptors were a bad team because of the injuries.

I'd still say he's the best GM in Raptors history. Drafted Chris Bosh, Vince Carter, Morris Peterson and always made trades that made the team better (Childs, Rose, Oakley, Davis, Clark).

BC is just looking good because of Babcock's man Jose and Grunwalds man Chris Bosh. The only moves I liked were Hump and Parker. He signed Jason Kapono, which is looking really bad right now. He didnt even clear up the capspace himself, it was Babcock and Embry's work.

This might possibly be my all-time favourite post EVER on RealGM. I am simply in awe staring at it. I've heard that some people, when faced with the death of someone close, don't cry right away. I'm in a similar state of shock, and I expect to start laughing sometime in the next few days.

Just amazing.

[foetopsy]

Raps won like 27 games the year before BC... All of a sudden BC signs on as GM and Raps make the playoffs.. BC is the best GM Raps have ever had and thats not even debatable.

[omeloon]

Glen Grunwald would have been a great GM for us if he just would have offered AD, JYD, and Alvin a few million less than what he gave them. No one was offering anything close to what we offered, we definitely over paid.

If AD was making the $8 mill / year he deserved to be making, we could have got someone A LOT better than Jalen Rose and his nasty contract. We actually had a solid roster that worked well together, we just didn't have any room for improvement because of the contracts we gave out to keep everyone happy.

[The_Hater]

I'd have to agree with this assessment.

BC hasn't done anything yet to prove his "worth" .. Obviously noone is writing him off, but there's no need to praise him YET. Kapono or Bargnani haven't been great moves so far.

So a 20 win improvment in season #1 not to mention the previous juggernaut he built in Phoenix doesn't prove his worth? O..K..

About Grunwald folks. As mentioned previously, I used to think that he was pretty good GM too. And I truly like the guy having met him. But now that we have the power of hindsight, here are the primary assets he had entering his first off season as the Toronto GM.

- Tracy McGrady
- Chauncey Billups
- Marcus Camby
- Doug Christie
- Alvin Williams
- #4, #16 and #18 picks in a loaded 1998 draft (Carter/Pierce/Nowitzki)
- Tons of cap space

Now how many GM's couldn't have turned that base (3 future all-stars and 2 future DPOY candidates) into better than a fringe playoff team? Because when it all shock down, that's all Grunwald was able to accomplish folks.

[killkenny]

Chauncy Billups was nowhere near the player then that he is now, nor -- I speculate -- did most people see him becoming that player. GG definitely mishandled the McGrady situation, but his options were fairly limited, given the mixed signals that McGrady's camp was sending out at the time about the possibility of resigning. Camby, at the time, was something of a disappointment (am I the only one who remembers that, previous to this and the last season, this man, as fantastic a player as he's become, was a fixture on the injury reserve?), and the feeling was that the team needed toughness and a veteran presence, which Oakley supplied in spades.

Glen's free agents signings were consistently terrible. Yogi, Mark Jackson, Hakeem -- every single one a negative. And don't forget the coaches he hired: Butch Carter (who went positively nuts and eventually tried to usurp the GM's role), Lenny Wilkens (OK, that wasn't entirely Glen's choice, and he did win us a playoff series, but still...), and, last but not least, KO.

Overall, his track record was a mixed one; his successor's, however, was not. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't thank heaven we have BC at the reins now.

[bballin]

My rankings

1. BC
2. Babcocks
3. GG
4. IT

I rank babcock so high because I believe he is in large part part fo the reason for our success today, he did all the dirty work, cleaned up GG's mess brought in Mitchell, Embry got rid of all the softness/bad habit players like VC and changed the culture despite not winning. He also nabbed us Jose for peanuts, cleared up cap space, drafted cv which led to ford and just overall did the work neccessary for us to rebuild. He wasnt perfect, he likely wasnt going to finish the job he started which is why we then went and got BC but his work led to what could be the greatest raptor moments now and in the future ever.

[acie_earl_rules]

Let's not forget, this franchise was in shambles when Grunwald took over. Everyone had just jumped ship, Kenny Anderson (KENNY ANDERSON!) had refused to report, we wore those ridiculous uniforms, and we were one step on our way to Vegas. We were a joke.

Grunwald had the courage to stand in front of the fans that first season and speak while they boo'd mercilessly. He took the steps necessary to give the franchise credibility and keep it in Toronto. At that time, he HAD to overpay to get guys to stay. The Canada stigma was still a big issue, and everyone had associated the Raptors with Isiah.

The Grunwald era didn't end well, and I do think Colangelo has been better thus far, but Grunwald is definitely an above-average to good GM.

I honestly think we would have moved cities if it weren't for him. Regardless of how his tenure ended, he should always get credit for that.

[tb40]

My rankings

1. BC
2. Babcocks
3. GG
4. IT

I rank babcock so high because I believe he is in large part part fo the reason for our success today, he did all the dirty work, cleaned up GG's mess brought in Mitchell, Embry got rid of all the softness/bad habit players like VC and changed the culture despite not winning. He also nabbed us Jose for peanuts, cleared up cap space, drafted cv which led to ford and just overall did the work neccessary for us to rebuild. He wasnt perfect, he likely wasnt going to finish the job he started which is why we then went and got BC but his work led to what could be the greatest raptor moments now and in the future ever.

That's an unpopular opinion to have on this board, but one that I agree with.

I would take the next step and say Babcock would have improved if given the oppurtunity. He began the trend to thoroughly scout world-wide talent, something unheard of by the previous management.

I also agree with the Hater's opinion on GG, his quick fixes and hefty contracts to role players nearly distroyed this organization, despite having a lot to work with, and because he was a nice guy, he basically got a free pass by the media, and fans.

To be fair though, the climate at the time was not very favourable for the raps, so he felt he had to overpay to keep these guys.

Isaiah is Isaiah, nuff said.

BC so far has improved the image of the raptors greatly just by his mere presence, he is very well spoken and handles himself superbly with the press. He believes in scouting world-wide [especially Europe, as did Babs], and turned some so-so investments into reasonably priced movable contracts. I believe he has an eye for talent, and listens to his people closely and carefully, which being in a position of some authority myself I know to be extremely important.

A bit of bad luck with TJ, which hopefully turns out alright in the end, and an iffy first rounder in Bargs, [which in the long run, will turn out for the best imo], and he is without doubt our best GM to date.

[Pchu]

I'd have to agree with this assessment.

BC hasn't done anything yet to prove his "worth" .. Obviously noone is writing him off, but there's no need to praise him YET. Kapono or Bargnani haven't been great moves so far.

So a 20 win improvment in season #1 not to mention the previous juggernaut he built in Phoenix doesn't prove his worth? O..K..

About Grunwald folks. As mentioned previously, I used to think that he was pretty good GM too. And I truly like the guy having met him. But now that we have the power of hindsight, here are the primary assets he had entering his first off season as the Toronto GM.

- Tracy McGrady
- Chauncey Billups
- Marcus Camby
- Doug Christie
- Alvin Williams
- #4, #16 and #18 picks in a loaded 1998 draft (Carter/Pierce/Nowitzki)
- Tons of cap space

Now how many GM's couldn't have turned that base (3 future all-stars and 2 future DPOY candidates) into better than a fringe playoff team? Because when it all shock down, that's all Grunwald was able to accomplish folks.

I would defend Grunwald for a bit here.

When he first took the job, he asked the coach Butch Carter on what he wants, and Butch said, he wants more veterans. That's what he got. He traded away Camby, who IMO would never worked out in Toronto. I think Van Gundy really toughens him up in NY, (he was benched a lot in NY then he became the 6th man and the rest is history) and Oakley was what this team needed at that time. He trade Billups for a lottery pick, and Billups didn't become a star until he got to Detroit. Would the Raptors wait that long (or would any team wait that long?)

Now, the McGrady thing is unfortunate, he should have traded him and get something for him; and not trust his words. He did overpay for AD, Alvin Williams and JYD. He made some unfortunate signings (Yogi Stewart comes to mind), but some of the moves just didn't work out. It happens.

To me, Glen is an average GM, like a lot of them in the NBA, he made some good moves and made some terrible ones. He also got his handcuffed by Peddie as well (the hiring of Kevin O'Neil for example). I would like to see what he can do as a GM on another team.

[theSkinny]

And I always thought we drafted Antawn???

[The_Hater]

Some excellent points have been about GG turning around a very bad situation when he arrived. And it's one that I have clearly overlooked and forgotten in my assessment.

That said, the point I'm trying to make is that the cupboard was far from bare when GG took over. In fact other than the PR mess than Isiah left on his exit, it's almost an ideal situation for an incoming GM.

Lots of quality youth
3 incoming draft picks
Zero bad contracts
Tons of cap space
A bad record meaning that there was nowhere to go but up

As incompetent as Isiah has proven himself to be in NY, I have argued previously that he actually did a pretty good job and had I decent plan in place as GM of the Raps. Now he abandoned that job less than 3 years into his tenure leaving both a bad taste in everyone's mouth and GG in a position to play the role of hero, but as I've clearly shown the roster situation was in extremely good shape for whoever stepped in to make an immediate impact.

GG did that and is viewed a hero because of it but I'm guessing that just about any GM would have been able to do the same without as much collaterial damage (which was trading too many young assets for aging vets and subsquently losing TMac for nothing) and leaving the team in a much better position to contend in the long run.

[The_Hater]

And I always thought we drafted Antawn???

Toronto drafted 4th. Golden St drafted 5th. Both Antawn and Vince were still on the board. Golden St wanted Antawn. Toronto wanted Vince.

So to insure that they got their guy the Warriors prearranged a deal to send cash to the Raps for them to draft Antawn 4th and in turn drafted Vince for the Raps 5th. They knew Toronto didn't want Jamison but this avoided the fear of a 3rd party coming in at the last minute and trading up with the Raps to steal him.

[Pchu]

I think whoever the GM is going to lose TMac, since he is hell-bent on leaving anyways. Now, can they get anything for him? Maybe, maybe not. Don't forget, at that time, McGrady was saying he would consider re-signing with Toronto, and the team was on a playoff run. A lot of GMs would gamble and hope McGrady would stay true to his words, which he didn't.

Not alot of GMs would break up a tandem of Carter and McGrady voluntarily. Actually I am not sure anyone who would.