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TSN Roundtable: Ford or Calderon?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:11 am
by vc&cb4
Here is the link to an article on TSN where 4 Raptors "observers" give their opinions on the matter.
I think Tim Chisholm said it best:
Had you asked me this question at the beginning of the season, I would have said, unflinchingly, that T.J. was the man to start for this team.
Today, I'm not so sure.
None of this is an indictment of the play of T.J. I think he is a stellar point guard who is a nightmare for two-thirds of the league on the offensive end of the floor. However, with the particular starting line-up that the Raptors currently employ, I think that T.J. could be of greater help coming off of the bench. Right now all the starting five needs is a guy who can dump the ball down to Bosh on a nice high-low pass off of the pick-and-roll. The bench unit desperately needs a guy who can penetrate, suck in the defenses, and speed up the game and make it easier for his teammates. Basically, they need someone to create the offense for a group of jump shooters. I basically crop this up to the bench being so pedestrian that they need a player of T.J.'s capacity to keep them from blowing every lead they inherit.
It's just a case of matching the right guard to the right scenario. Right now Calderon has the starting five playing exceptional. It doesn't make sense to interrupt that rhythm when the real issue is the bench, but there is no way on this Earth that Sam Mitchell doesn't put Ford back into the starting five as soon as Ford says he's ready.
edit- This is not a ford vs calderon thread. Just merely posting an article.
Re: TSN Roundtable: Ford or Calderon?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:15 am
by rapz**7**
vc&cb4 wrote:Here is the link to an article on TSN where 4 Raptors "observers" give their opinions on the matter.
I think Tim Chisholm said it best:
Had you asked me this question at the beginning of the season, I would have said, unflinchingly, that T.J. was the man to start for this team.
Today, I'm not so sure.
None of this is an indictment of the play of T.J. I think he is a stellar point guard who is a nightmare for two-thirds of the league on the offensive end of the floor. However, with the particular starting line-up that the Raptors currently employ, I think that T.J. could be of greater help coming off of the bench. Right now all the starting five needs is a guy who can dump the ball down to Bosh on a nice high-low pass off of the pick-and-roll. The bench unit desperately needs a guy who can penetrate, suck in the defenses, and speed up the game and make it easier for his teammates. Basically, they need someone to create the offense for a group of jump shooters. I basically crop this up to the bench being so pedestrian that they need a player of T.J.'s capacity to keep them from blowing every lead they inherit.
It's just a case of matching the right guard to the right scenario. Right now Calderon has the starting five playing exceptional. It doesn't make sense to interrupt that rhythm when the real issue is the bench, but there is no way on this Earth that Sam Mitchell doesn't put Ford back into the starting five as soon as Ford says he's ready.
edit-
This is not a ford vs calderon thread. Just merely posting an article.
I hope you know what you just started.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:16 am
by bakafool
As the Chairman of Iron Chef America would say ... "Let the battle begin!!"
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:20 am
by vc&cb4
I honestly like both PG's and it doesn't matter who starts or who finishes as long as we win. And if others can't grasp the concept of winning, then so be it.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:20 am
by Ian4
personally i'd start calderon and trade tj a 2nd for lebron
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:22 am
by Khan
Ian4 wrote:personally i'd start calderon and trade tj a 2nd for lebron
if you can make that trade happen, we should fire BC and hire you.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:22 am
by vaff87
This is a bit off topic, but I think he's a little too hard on the bench. The bench PG at the moment is one of Martin or Dixon. When TJ was healthy and Calderon was coming off the bench, it was one of the very best in the league.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:23 am
by HaZe123
We NEED both.
End of story.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:29 am
by vc&cb4
BTW, this is a series of questions posed to the 4 guys.
Here is another asking if the BC will make a trade.
Tim Chisholm answers again:
One combination that would be intriguing to pursue, though, might be Corey Maggette and Sam Cassell in Los Angeles. Both come off the books at season's end and anyone who's been paying the least bit of attention knows neither one is going to be a Clipper next season. Maggette could fill a huge void in terms of backcourt scoring for the Raptors, and he's among the best in the league at getting to the line - a huge issue for the Raptors. He isn't the savviest player in the league, to be sure, but he'd be an upgrade to the alternatives the Raptors have at the moment, which is none. Cassell, on the other hand, is as savvy as all get out and would seriously ease the demand on T.J. Ford to rush back before he is fully ready to rejoin the team.
There probably isn't enough in the Raptors arsenal to make a deal like this happen, but that is kind of deal the team should be looking to initiate. The last thing the team needs right now is any more swapping of role players. The Raptors have an overcrowded stable of role players. What they need now is star-power, versatility and scoring in one package to take some of the pressure off of Bosh.
HaZe123 wrote:We NEED both.
End of story.
You obviously didn't read the article.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:35 am
by PharoaheMonch
3 out of 4 guys there prefer Ford starting. What I find hilarious are some of the comments that people are leaving.
"TJ never got All-Star game recognition, how can he be better than Jose! This is ridiculous!"
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:36 am
by PharoaheMonch
"It appears Mitchell wasn't the only idiot. Ford will never be as good as Calderon developing is. Calderons style only gets better with age (smart one). Ford's only gets worse (athletic one). Ford starting had good rests with Calderon and the Raptors won every game with their bench, NONE with the starting line up of Ford. Even last year already when Ford was injured the Raps won and were a better team. It is for reasons like these people that I say we are much better of with Ford injured, not that with him playing 5 to 10 minutes a game from the bench we would not be better, but that would not happen. Soon they would divide there time and soon after Ford would be finishing with a great finish every 1 in 5 games and he would look great even though the other 4 he would just dribble the ball either throwing a brick or passing it to someone with dieing seconds on the shot clock, forcing them to shoot so he would stand for the assist. He has great athletism, but will never be a great pg. Calderon will be as good as Nash in 2 years."
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:59 am
by vc&cb4
why are u quoting people? I honestly didn't want this to be a thread about who's better. I simply feel the way Tim Chisholm put it was exciting to think of how well the second unit would be with him back.
Again.........
Right now all the starting five needs is a guy who can dump the ball down to Bosh on a nice high-low pass off of the pick-and-roll. The bench unit desperately needs a guy who can penetrate, suck in the defenses, and speed up the game and make it easier for his teammates. Basically, they need someone to create the offense for a group of jump shooters. I basically crop this up to the bench being so pedestrian that they need a player of T.J.'s capacity to keep them from blowing every lead they inherit.
It's just a case of matching the right guard to the right scenario. Right now Calderon has the starting five playing exceptional. It doesn't make sense to interrupt that rhythm when the real issue is the bench, but there is no way on this Earth that Sam Mitchell doesn't put Ford back into the starting five as soon as Ford says he's ready.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:02 am
by omeloon
Kapono definitely needs guys like Ford and Delfino breaking down the defense and then swinging it out to him. That is when he's at his MOST effective. As much as I think TJ should probably start, TJ is at his best with guys like Bargnani and Kapono while Calderon works perfectly with Bosh's style of play. I think Calderon should continue to start, but as soon as the opposing team clamps down on our perimeter shooters, we'll probably need Ford to come in
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:07 am
by vc&cb4
omeloon wrote:Kapono definitely needs guys like Ford and Delfino breaking down the defense and then swinging it out to him. That is when he's at his MOST effective. As much as I think TJ should probably start, TJ is at his best with guys like Bargnani and Kapono while Calderon works perfectly with Bosh's style of play. I think Calderon should continue to start, but as soon as the opposing team clamps down on our perimeter shooters, we'll probably need Ford to come in
BINGO!!!!
Re: TSN Roundtable: Ford or Calderon?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:37 am
by xAIRNESSx
vc&cb4 wrote:Here is the link to an article on TSN where 4 Raptors "observers" give their opinions on the matter.
I think Tim Chisholm said it best:
Had you asked me this question at the beginning of the season, I would have said, unflinchingly, that T.J. was the man to start for this team.
Today, I'm not so sure.
None of this is an indictment of the play of T.J. I think he is a stellar point guard who is a nightmare for two-thirds of the league on the offensive end of the floor. However, with the particular starting line-up that the Raptors currently employ, I think that T.J. could be of greater help coming off of the bench. Right now all the starting five needs is a guy who can dump the ball down to Bosh on a nice high-low pass off of the pick-and-roll. The bench unit desperately needs a guy who can penetrate, suck in the defenses, and speed up the game and make it easier for his teammates. Basically, they need someone to create the offense for a group of jump shooters. I basically crop this up to the bench being so pedestrian that they need a player of T.J.'s capacity to keep them from blowing every lead they inherit.
It's just a case of matching the right guard to the right scenario. Right now Calderon has the starting five playing exceptional. It doesn't make sense to interrupt that rhythm when the real issue is the bench, but there is no way on this Earth that Sam Mitchell doesn't put Ford back into the starting five as soon as Ford says he's ready.
edit- This is not a ford vs calderon thread. Just merely posting an article.
I've been saying this since last season. I think TJ is a lot more effective off the bench, because he can roam free a lot more and can use his quickness to be the focal point of the offense.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:51 am
by One of Shemps Kids
Ian4 wrote:personally i'd start calderon and trade tj a 2nd for lebron
New sig?
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:14 am
by jeffya2
Calderon must continue to start until he falters
We need TJ off the bench for penetration & to free up Kapono especially
If this doesn't happen we must trade Kapono so this will happen
If our shooters can't get open looks then TJ comes in for penetration, freeing up the shooters & playing additional minutes
Sam is a situational coach & has proven performance dictates minutes
Even Bosh has been benched when he can't get it going Our 2nd line earlier this year {when they played well} were left on the floor & closed the gap in many games
TJ will fire up the second line & be the catalyst to make our 2nd line one of the best once again
The Spurs need Ginobli off the bench
The Suns need Barbosa off the bench
The Raps need TJ off the bench
They are all "spark plugs" that fire up a team when needed & usually get a lot more minutes deeper into the game
This is the blueprint to carry us much deeper into the playoffs this year
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:20 am
by Ian4
One of Shemps Kids wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
New sig?
can't tell if you think i was serious or you just think its funny cause i was just messing around.
what that guy said about Calderon only getting better with age and tj declining with age hit it right on the head.
and what the other guy said about tj coming off the bench with kapono and delfino sounds like it would work perfectly. the draw and kick tj provides would help kapono so much.i see him out there almost like he has no place in the teams offense.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:09 am
by J Dilla
I agree with Grange's part. Ford has every skill you would want in a PG, the only concern is if he can remain healthy.
IMO, we should really have this debate when TJ Ford starts playing 40MPG, and then we can evaluate on whos the better PG when given starter's minutes. Jose has done a good job with starter minutes, now we need to see TJ.
Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:57 am
by Illuminati
Tj Ford is a old man, he's showing gray.