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Looking at the Raps roster is there anyone out there, rumoured to be available via trade, that could reasonably make the Raps a legit contender to be the Eastern Conference representatives in the Finals of course without affecting the Raps core (Bosh, TJ, Calderon, and to a lesser extent Bargs, Delfino, Parker, Rasho)?

Some names that come to mind are: Ben Wallace, Ron Artest, Pau Gasol, Vince Carter (not mentioning Kidd since Raps have some of the best PG play in the league), Hughes, JO (Raps probably don't have what it takes to land him)?
(Feel free to add to that list of people that are rumoured to be available that Raps may have a legit shot at).

The cost would likely be one of Raps' current strengths, their depth, and financial flexibility (take on bigger contracts for lesser, expiring ones).

Or do you think it isn't worth jeopardizing what the Raps have going for them now, and let them continue to grow as a team and stand pat?

torsport wrote:
Or do you think it isn't worth jeopardizing what the Raps have going for them now, and let them continue to grow as a team and stand pat?

I have to go with this one, its clear Raps are not a championship team as of yet. I wouldn't mess around with our future picks just so that we can add a guy like kidd or artest to the team just to go deep in the playoffs and be a disappointed if we couldn't get a ring.

Thats where BC would be smart to just be patient with the current team and do his magic in the draft by finding that "hidden gem" / or get a bargain player of the free agent market to fill in the weakened hole of the team.

My take...

BC thinks Ill Mago will be a clutch performer.
Higher the stakes, higher the production.
So low mid season numbers don't mean as much as his REAL value comes in outstanding playoff performances.

I really think we should go after Artest in the offseason.. he said he'd play for NY for MLE. Maybe we can get him for that price too? Sam can keep Artest's attitude in check and knowing how well the raps get along, maybe the friendly atmosphere affects Artest in a positive way too? One thing I know is that he is a good defensive player and a tough dude. I'd like to get him on this team.

Artest can help put us over the top really.

only guy that'd be worth trading for regardless of cost (i.e. anybody except Bosh) and that would make us instant contenders would be Kobe and you know that's not going to happen, especially now that the Lakers are playing so well.

BigBen, Paul, Ron, Carter, Kidd, etc. will not get the Raptors there.

Raptors90102 wrote:I really think we should go after Artest in the offseason.. he said he'd play for NY for MLE. Maybe we can get him for that price too? Sam can keep Artest's attitude in check and knowing how well the raps get along, maybe the friendly atmosphere affects Artest in a positive way too? One thing I know is that he is a good defensive player and a tough dude. I'd like to get him on this team.

Artest can help put us over the top really.

I have to agree, I'm leaning that way myself. But not in the off season, but in a trade this season. Not sure about over the top, but for what we say our deficiencies are, he would help. Would he spoil what good we have going? i don't think so, but a part of me would be a little afraid of Bosh wilting in his presence. I thought Bosh deferred leadership to Mike James, when he shouldn't have and it could be worse with a someone like Artest. However he seemed to get along well with Kmart. We need to be tougher, we need better defense, we can be a positive environment. Usually one crazy, is okay. The thing is I'm not sure how much we should really give up if he's going to want to walk to NY at the end of the year. but maybe no risk, no reward, and the fact he can leave at the end of the year, my mean less risk, if he can be had for a reasonable price. Think is, he can help a lot of teams. It it was me, I might take a gamble, not sure I'd give up a pick, but maybe parker or Kapono, Dixon and Graham. It's not that I hate kapono and parker, but they can provide what the other does and we will need the space at SF.

TorontoBaller wrote:My take...

BC thinks Ill Mago will be a clutch performer.
Higher the stakes, higher the production.
So low mid season numbers don't mean as much as his REAL value comes in outstanding playoff performances.

I agree with this.

You need to look to younger guys to tweak the team. CJ Miles(Utah), or Anyone from Chicago not called Wallace or Dorell Wright (Miami).

BC seems to save his big moves for sign and trades and strategic off-season signings.

We are fine in all aspects, we just need a player that has some low post game that isnt shot happy which we dont have, but we dont need for now unless rebounding is a big issue. Id rather have 3 or 4 wing players with 7-10 points each then one guy like Artest that puts up 15-20. If Kapowno can just live up to his money in the playoffs which he has so far, then we have a deadly shooting team.

Chris, TJ and Jose are our FT getters but we need more attackers like Jamario, Delfino and AP. AP and Jamario are good perimeter defenders but sometimes we lack the effort. Our team has clutch players in AP, TJ and Jose to get a shot ready, but id rather go with Bosh attacking the rim to get fouled. Andrea is not reliable when gets cold, but when he's hot he's hot.

We have to stop with this let's-get-to-contender-level quickly strategy. If BC were thinking of getting us to contender level asap, then we could make a HUGE mistake and set us back.

First of all, we won our division last year and made the playoffs, when all that should have been expected was some solid progress with our youthful core. This year, we are a guaranteed playoff team and a top-4 seed contender, when all that should have been expected in the original plan was to maybe contend for the playoffs.

Last year we jumped from 27 wins to division winner and now people are getting greedy and want that same jump to contender. We have one of the youngest cores in the NBA (I don't include guys like DMart, Baston, obviously), and we should focus on improving internally before going out and making that jump for the star player aka final piece.

Yea, there are always players like these that we can attain. For example, I think Gilbert Arenas can be had from Washington for one of our PGs in a package. But what if it fails? We just acquired a cap-strapping salary before even realizing where our current young core can take us first. I say we wait a year or two before making a move like that.

AllKnowingNBAer wrote:We have to stop with this let's-get-to-contender-level quickly strategy. If BC were thinking of getting us to contender level asap, then we could make a HUGE mistake and set us back.

First of all, we won our division last year and made the playoffs, when all that should have been expected was some solid progress with our youthful core. This year, we are a guaranteed playoff team and a top-4 seed contender, when all that should have been expected in the original plan was to maybe contend for the playoffs.

Last year we jumped from 27 wins to division winner and now people are getting greedy and want that same jump to contender. We have one of the youngest cores in the NBA (I don't include guys like DMart, Baston, obviously), and we should focus on improving internally before going out and making that jump for the star player aka final piece.

Yea, there are always players like these that we can attain. For example, I think Gilbert Arenas can be had from Washington for one of our PGs in a package. But what if it fails? We just acquired a cap-strapping salary before even realizing where our current young core can take us first. I say we wait a year or two before making a move like that.

Very well said. The day will come when we make such a deal, but I don't see it happening during this season. It's not the right moment on the timeline. I'm still of the view that something happens during the summer with expiring contracts and future draft picks that is more impactful than anything BC will do before Feb. 21.

By the way, here's Chad Ford's thoughts on this from his chat:

T Cell (Whitehorse, Yukon): What moves could/should Toronto do to become a contender? Obviously, Bosh and Calderon are untouchable, but do we have any other assets?

Chad Ford: (1:26 PM ET ) Bargnani is an asset, but one I don't think Bryan Colangelo is ready to give up on. His trade value is fairly low right now and his upside is still strong. He's struggling this year, but he does have talent and he's very young. As for other assets, I don't really see it ... I think any moves they make will be small ones.

i am thinking that there's a likely chance zero trades will take place during the regular season UNLESS teams like the Clippers and Bulls decide they need to blow things up and have a fire sale.

otherwise, i don't necessarily see the Raps challenging for the finals. if they finish 3-6 in the east, there's a good chance they will win the first round and possibly the 2nd round.

but, as of now, i can't see the current Raps plus a new addition being able to beat a healthy Boston and a non-dysfunctional (see last year) Detroit.

We wouldn't be having the let-get-to-contender-status conversation if we had picked Brandon Roy.

We'd already be contenders. I'm not saying that we should make a big trade, but let's be honest here.

If we were getting an 8 out of our #1 pick instead of a 3 (excuse the pun) we'd be right up there.

Cassius wrote:We wouldn't be having the let-get-to-contender-status conversation if we had picked Brandon Roy.

We'd already be contenders. I'm not saying that we should make a big trade, but let's be honest here.

If we were getting an 8 out of our #1 pick instead of a 3 (excuse the pun) we'd be right up there.

see. that's a picture of my eyes rolling. at you. again, my eyes. rolling. at you. rolling eyes, roll roll roll.

What would you guys think about an Elton Brand trade?

Ford
Bargnani
Dixon
Garbajosa
Graham

for

Brand
Knight
Williams
Ross

This trade would obviously depend on EB and Ford showing that they are healthy. Brand was just cleared last week to do extensive running and jumping work and should be good to go in around 3 weeks. I'd say the trio of Calderon, Bosh and Brand would have a very good chance of going to the finals.

AllKnowingNBAer wrote:We have to stop with this let's-get-to-contender-level quickly strategy. If BC were thinking of getting us to contender level asap, then we could make a HUGE mistake and set us back.

First of all, we won our division last year and made the playoffs, when all that should have been expected was some solid progress with our youthful core. This year, we are a guaranteed playoff team and a top-4 seed contender, when all that should have been expected in the original plan was to maybe contend for the playoffs.

Last year we jumped from 27 wins to division winner and now people are getting greedy and want that same jump to contender. We have one of the youngest cores in the NBA (I don't include guys like DMart, Baston, obviously), and we should focus on improving internally before going out and making that jump for the star player aka final piece.

Yea, there are always players like these that we can attain. For example, I think Gilbert Arenas can be had from Washington for one of our PGs in a package. But what if it fails? We just acquired a cap-strapping salary before even realizing where our current young core can take us first. I say we wait a year or two before making a move like that.

Definitely true. I personally considered last year a write off with all the new faces we had on the roster. But to my(and everybody's) delight, we sky rocketed to Atlantic Division champs and played a great series against our nemesis...VC.

And this year, we are definitely going to the play offs, unless something catastrophic happens. This was supposed to be the year we make the play offs. But because we made the play offs last year, many new fans have become overzealous and think we should now be instant contenders.

Heck, Lebron James took a few years before he made the play offs and few more years before he made the finals.

It's not a race to the finish line, i'd rather have BC build a solid core and fine tune and tweak it as we go along, and build up a dynasty like the spurs.

It's clear to me that next summer or next trade deadline (FEB 09) will be the time where the Raptors will have the best chance to significantly improve the team. The big expiring contract of Rasho (8.4 mil) + our 2009 1st round pick and another asset can give us a good player that will fit our needs at the time.

sipclip why would the Clippers accept this deal? Elton is a great 20-10-2 guy on any given day. Ford is a huge injury risk and is in the same boat as far as Livingston is they would have a brittle PG rotation and no real down and dirty PF. Bargnani wouldn't mesh well with Kaman as well.

rocket2981 wrote:It's clear to me that next summer or next trade deadline (FEB 09) will be the time where the Raptors will have the best chance to significantly improve the team. The big expiring contract of Rasho (8.4 mil) + our 2009 1st round pick and another asset can give us a good player that will fit our needs at the time.

Exactly. That Rasho contract could be money for us (not to mention this year's first round pick along with next year's). How many quality players have been traded away from a rebuilding team for an expiring contract, a draft pick or two and/or a youngster? MANY (see Carter, Baron, KG, Ray, etc).

It's funny 'cuz someone just mentioned the Clippers and Bulls and the word Firesale. Personally, I don't think the Clips or Bulls will be having a firesale by the deadline, but I think a year from now will be a totally different story. If the Bulls, Clippers, not to mention the Grizzlies as well, don't make the playoffs this year, and have a poor first half next season, look for guys like Gasol, Mike Miller, Brand, Kaman, Gordon, Nocioni, Tyrus, etc.'s name to be popping up before the deadline. Don't think for a second that an expiring $8.5 million contract and a couple of mid-first rounders in a package of another solid player wouldn't net us one of those mentioned players in a firesale. We just have to be patient, and take advantage of another team's unfortunate situation (like NJ did with us).

sipclip wrote:What would you guys think about an Elton Brand trade?

Honestly. I think if the Clips were to be having a firesale down the road, BC would be better off going after Kaman than Brand. Though I think Kaman is less likely to be traded away as he is still a young piece. We'll see next season, when the Clips finally decide to blow the team up.